BHO safety question...

I've read that some people prefer to smoke only bubble hash or 99% iso alcohol hash due to butane containing benzene. Benzene is a carcinogen and can cause many other problems yet we breathe it in every day, just in extremely small amounts. It can be from second hand smoke, car exhausts, etc.

The colorado company Simply Pure makes edibles using only bubble hash. They claim that this is for your safety despite that it is more costly and time consuming for them to do. Does this have any merit?

I read the vector MSDS and didn't see benzene listed... is it a byproduct or something? can any of you who are well versed in chemistry comment on this?

Thank you :]

people will claim anything to sell a product. bho is perfectly safe. i dislike the petroleum flavors so a thorough purge is essential, however, not life threatening. butane is used in food processing.

Marijuanasaur said:

I've read that some people prefer to smoke only bubble hash or 99% iso alcohol hash due to butane containing benzene. Benzene is a carcinogen and can cause many other problems yet we breathe it in every day, just in extremely small amounts. It can be from second hand smoke, car exhausts, etc.

The colorado company Simply Pure makes edibles using only bubble hash. They claim that this is for your safety despite that it is more costly and time consuming for them to do. Does this have any merit?

I read the vector MSDS and didn't see benzene listed... is it a byproduct or something? can any of you who are well versed in chemistry comment on this?

Thank you :]

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There is no benzene in butane. Someone is attempting to lead you astray.

Probably by the same folks that periodically make such claims on this forum, but are unable to provide proof or an explanation of how various contaminants actually found it's way into the butane.

I suggest that you not trust anything else that person tells you, without checking it out first. Even if they are innocent of a secondary agendas, they have passed erroneous information on to you as fact, so are not a reliable source.

it depends heavily on the chemical manufacturer and the chemist using it. cheap butane willl have lots of other trace chemicals that leave a nasty gunk while really nice multifiltered butane generally won't (but some still do). using reagent grade butane with proper chemistry equipment would provide very clean hash, theoretically cleaner than bubble hash bc/of environmental controls and washes. BUT most people aren't using anywhere near that, so you get all the junk they don't know about or aren't good enough to remove. butane is a fairly generic organic solvent so anything in soaks against in the process will leech to some extent so you can also get crap from really cheap materials aside from the butane. if you taste it then it was cheap butane or needs further cleaning, but unless you're consuming vast quantities it's not much different than waiting in rush hour or having a cigarette. it's worth noting even very clean iso hash contains small traces of the iso (more info on a thread somewhere on here...) which isn't good for you either. also consider that depending on the size and number of batches they make the company might not be comfortable with what amounts to a large butane bomb compared to a large icewater tub.

vajraganja said:

it depends heavily on the chemical manufacturer and the chemist using it. cheap butane willl have lots of other trace chemicals that leave a nasty gunk while really nice multifiltered butane generally won't (but some still do). using reagent grade butane with proper chemistry equipment would provide very clean hash, theoretically cleaner than bubble hash bc/of environmental controls and washes. BUT most people aren't using anywhere near that, so you get all the junk they don't know about or aren't good enough to remove. butane is a fairly generic organic solvent so anything in soaks against in the process will leech to some extent so you can also get crap from really cheap materials aside from the butane. if you taste it then it was cheap butane or needs further cleaning, but unless you're consuming vast quantities it's not much different than waiting in rush hour or having a cigarette. it's worth noting even very clean iso hash contains small traces of the iso (more info on a thread somewhere on here...) which isn't good for you either. also consider that depending on the size and number of batches they make the company might not be comfortable with what amounts to a large butane bomb compared to a large icewater tub.

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So we are singing off the same sheet of music, may we agree that we are talking about 4 and 5X lighter butane, not raw butane at the well head or odorized fuel gas?

May we also agree that butane is not made by a chemist, but boiled off as a naturally occurring alkane in refineries, along with the propane, methane and ethane, and their isomers?

Since you can't store the above compressed liquid gasses in the same type tanks as all the evil contaminants that myth has butane containing, may I ask their source?

I suggest that it more likely that the contamination in the brands of lighter butane typically used in BHO extraction is isobutane, propane, and cylopropane, as well as less than 50 ppm paraffin, just as the manufacturers state.

Do you have information proving differently?

Marijuanasaur said:

The colorado company Simply Pure makes edibles using only bubble hash. They claim that this is for your safety despite that it is more costly and time consuming for them to do. Does this have any merit?

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Yes. The merit is that Wanda from Simply Pure is pissed that people are buying top notch BHO over her bubble trash. She wants to make more money, so she is trying to ruin it for the rest of us. She actually wants to go as far as to ban butane usage all together, which is fucking ridiculous.

Simply Pure press release:

SIMPLY PURE. PATIENT FOCUSED AND WHY WE DON'T USE BUTANE
Butane in Cannabis edibles could be dangerous for patients

Denver, CO -- While there are many safer extractions for Cannabinoids, too many medical marijuana centers and infused product manufactures have chosen the cheaper, more toxic method of butane extraction.

According to Simply Pure Master Chef Scott Durrah, "Simply Pure is leading the edible industry by offering patients not only a healthier choice, but also a healing alternative. With 100% organic, vegan, gluten-free products created by Real Chefs with the added ingredients of super foods such as quinoa, and functional foods such Coconut Oil, Simply Pure's sole focus is keeping the patient medicated holistically, not harmfully. We use a cold extraction method, which adds no solvents and is 100% organic and safe for patients. We feel a number of edible companies are putting our industry at risk by offering cheaper methods. "

Commercial butane is not something to play with as it has been strongly linked to heart muscle sensitization; it basically can make the heart super sensitive to adrenaline and can lead to sudden cardiac arrest and death, even if you have previously used it without adverse effects. It can even cause harmful psychoactive effects.

In fact, when you think you are medicated from a butane extracted product, often times part of that "high" feeling is generated from the solvent itself and not from the quality of the cannabis. At Simply Pure, we believe there needs to be some changes with regulation on infused products to protect the patient and inform the MMC owner.

Outlawed in California, Butane is a flammable solvent used in Colorado to extract the resin from the plant material. The filtered residue is collected as a soluble concentrate, commonly referred to as Butane Honey/Hash Oil (BHO).

The ease of availability and low cost makes Butane extractions attractive to some, but the implications can be dangerous and life threatening. Solvents can dissolve the cell membrane and continued ingestion can damage internal cells. This is specifically dangerous to the heart and brain.

According to the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on Butane, the warning clearly states:

Butane -- Potential Health Effects: Irritation, nausea, vomiting, headache, drowsiness, symptoms of drunkenness, tingling sensation, suffocation, convulsion, coma.

The potential health effects after our body metabolizes Butane into Sec-Butanol are gastrointestinal issues, including, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. However, the real seriousness lies in the long term effects, which may cause sudden collapse, coma, respiratory failure, liver and kidney failure and even death.

Butane extracted products are certainly not something you would prescribe to a sick patient who is seeking a NATURAL alternative remedy like Cannabis.

Chef Durrah simply advises, "Use butane to refill your lighter, nothing more.

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A response from Denver Relief:

This was our blog post in response to the article published by Westword last week.

Our blog can be found at:
http://www.denverrelief.com/bl...

This Westword Latest Word Post states that Wanda James an owner of a local edibles manufacturer, is calling to ban the use of subcritical butane cannabis extracts.

Why, you might ask? Well, she’s afraid, she doesn’t understand the extraction process, and her company would profit from the ban.

Did you know butane is in cooking sprays as a propellant?

Did you know butane is used to extract oils for perfumes and herbal therapy?

When an extraction is done correctly, the solvent used to create the extract is removed, reclaimed, or simply evaporated through the use of mild warmth. What is left is a pure THC extract that is highly effective in edibles and has the additional benefits of consistent quality and being easily dosable.

Wanda James is not an expert, yet she would have you fear something she admittedly knows little about (the alleged harmful effects of butane extracts).

It should be stated quite clearly that her seeking such a ban is directly related to the benefit that she would receive from it and thus is not purely motivated by patient safety or an actual awareness of any real danger.

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Trichgnomes said:

Yes. The merit is that Wanda from Simply Pure is pissed that people are buying top notch BHO over her bubble trash. She wants to make more money, so she is trying to ruin it for the rest of us. She actually wants to go as far as to ban butane usage all together, which is fucking ridiculous.



A response from Denver Relief:

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The gov't says BHO is illegal, so shops also go by it, and wont purchase it.. It's like a cop saying "Cannabis is illegal, even if I don't think it should be..."

People talk shit about Butane all the time, it evaps fully at 30F, and should be gone at room temp.

As Graywolf said If you get good butane there shouldn't be anything in it, and if there is something it will evap off like the rest of the tane...

ISO is poisonous so that should be more worrysome than Butane WHICH IS NON-TOXIC.

Also Benzene is produced above temps of 392F-200C when smoking plant, so if you smoke, you're getting Benzene...

KonradZuse said:

Also Benzene is produced above temps of 392F-200C when smoking plant, so if you smoke, you're getting Benzene...

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And also when you breathe in a city, drink certain soda brands, or eat bananas, cole slaw, or hamburger.

KonradZuse said:

Also Benzene is produced above temps of 392F-200C when smoking plant, so if you smoke, you're getting Benzene...

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I don't see any mechanisim for producing Benzene from simply smoking cannabis. Do you have any information explaining how that happens?

Gray Wolf said:

So we are singing off the same sheet of music, may we agree that we are talking about 4 and 5X lighter butane, not raw butane at the well head or odorized fuel gas?

May we also agree that butane is not made by a chemist, but boiled off as a naturally occurring alkane in refineries, along with the propane, methane and ethane, and their isomers?

Since you can't store the above compressed liquid gasses in the same type tanks as all the evil contaminants that myth has butane containing, may I ask their source?

I suggest that it more likely that the contamination in the brands of lighter butane typically used in BHO extraction is isobutane, propane, and cylopropane, as well as less than 50 ppm paraffin, just as the manufacturers state.

Do you have information proving differently?

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Gray Wolf - i think you misunderstood the point i was making. there are grades of butane for a reason, you don't get pure 100% butane without work and money and you don't need 100% butane for a cigarette lighter which is what most people are buying. as much as we'd wish it that means lots of it's worth noting "parrafin" means alkane hydrocarbons covering everything from methane to hexacontane. the ones we're most concerned with in the topic of butane are methane to hexane but can contain the middle alkanes which are organic solvents and will leech all kinds of crap.


let me back up a step and better address the original question. there is no reasonable way for benzene to be in butane unless you are using something secondhand/contaminated. they are totally different chemicals with very different attributes and processing steps. so any benzene from the natgas/petrol is gone by the time you get to butane in a can. benzene is an industrial chemical with virtually no uses outside of producing other chemicals and as a gas additive and isn't involved in the production once they hit the refinery. in terms of the particular company mentioned in think trichgnomes got it right, after reading their stuff it's someone with no chemistry knowledge hacking together associations to scare you. people have no real idea how many chemicals are used all the time for many reasons and just because a chemical can be used to make batteries or in a pesticide doesn't mean it's toxic, just that it's useful. for instance, toluene is produced from benezene, it's not bio-friendly but is much less dangerous and is used to remove cocaine from cocoa leaves to make coca-cola syrup. if i want to scare you i just do this;
products used in coca-cola syrup
kola nut - natural flavor source
cocoa leaves - source of cocaine
toluene - made from benzene and used as paint thinner
ethyl acetate - used in nail polish and remover, also in cigarettes

and you're now terrified of your soda bottle. but if i explain they soak the beans in toluene and then wash them multiple times and you know that toluene will evap like a champ then you know there is none in your soda. the ethyl acetate is used to remove caffeine and is a natural chemical in wine, totally safe, but if i don't tell you that and just say what's up there you think it's poison. just as a side note if you were to but toluene from a hardware store and try your own extraction it wouldn't work the same, they use reagent grade pure, you're buying cheapy consumer stuff, it'd work but isn't pure. if you don't believe me get a can and sit some on a glass tray with a cover for a few days. pure solvents will all evap completely leaving a clean dish, that nasty gunk on the dish is all the misc junk.



random msds searchs for butane show anywhere from 67% butane up to 100%. after combing through a bunch of online msds files just to check myself i've found a number listing 100% isobutane and many more containing various combinations of "anes" (meth-hex), ethanethiol, butadiene, olefins, propene, methanol, sulphur, copper, alcohols, ethers, oxygenates, and more. probably the least useful msds was zippo premium butane, listed as only "petroleum gasses, liquified, sweetened" whereas vector lists butane, iso-butane and propane. the "ane" chemicals are pretty safe, some of the others listed are toxic, but all things considered but the point is those are in things sold as "butane" you'll only know if you dig up a proper msds.

remember these come out of the ground as a mess of gasses, metals, etc then gets piped to a refinery where they process massive batches to the least tolerance needed for the application. does your lighter NEED 100% n-butane, will it explode if it contains 15% other hydrocarbons and trace metals? no, so many producers don't waste time and money making it pure, they get it to whatever their tolarence is and they're done. it's worth noting that many products contain "traces" of all kinds of crap that never gets listed because it's considered inevitable. i can't speak for industry regulations but just because your can says >99% butane doesn't mean there's nothing else in it and as my list copied from multiple msds sheets indicates there's a wide range for that other <1%. i have seen/smelled a massive difference between zippo brand fluid and ronsonol but they both claim to be just butane, just fill a pair of shot glasses with them and let em sit slightly covered for a few days and see the leftovers.

on top of everything else remember it's being used as a solvent. for whatever reason butane is great for THC but if it can dissolve THC it can do the same with many other things.



in theory everyone would use lab grade reagents, 100% pure butane and proper chemistry gear with vaccuum purges and you'd have nothing but epic honey oil. in the real world plenty of people doing these extractions are setting themselves on fire or ripping people off. you know many are using cheap butane and cheap materials. i'm not saying the butane is the issue, moreso the chemist using it, if they're cheap/shady/inept you could have all sorts of adulterants in you bho but on paper it looks clean and nobody would ever know.

i'm not saying bho is bad, i haven't had any that i'm aware of but chemically speaking a proper bho extract is excellent. i'm saying that there's a lot of leeway for unscrupulous or inept people to make shitty bho intentionally or accidentally and no good way to find out if it's contaminated. i'd also point out you can contaminate any other version but most of those contaminants would come from bad chemists not following sanitation protocol rather than cheap materials.

regardless of price, the main reason many even high quality butanes are a mixture including iso-butane and propane, are to allow it to burn more readily at more temperature and pressure ranges.

vajraganja said:

i'm saying that there's a lot of leeway for unscrupulous or inept people to make shitty bho intentionally or accidentally and no good way to find out if it's contaminated.

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just like all concentrates really, you need to make your own if you want to know whats in it. just like hash, my buddy just got some and it was totally foul, he is thinking dog hair..

What you have to remember about all of these chemicals (benzene toluene etc) is that its either high doses in short duration or low doses over prolonged periods which cause damage to tissue. If singular exposure caused death or disease nobody would be using it to make a regular smoking product out of, or not knowingly.

I think that this point is very useful to consider how you are choosing your own cannabis products. Do the research for yourself if you have any doubt about the safety of a chemical you are ingesting, and find out what short and long term exposure can result in, and if you are ready to take that risk. Cannabis culture is full of rumors, misinformation, and downright stupid people. When it comes to your health trust doctors not rumors.

That being said, I guarantee we all breath benzene everyday, but in low doses. Car exhaust is full of benzene... which sucks a lot even if you are a bike commuter.

well that sure was a wasted post, i think i'll join ya , lol.

Gray Wolf said:

I don't see any mechanisim for producing Benzene from simply smoking cannabis. Do you have any information explaining how that happens?

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It's a pyrolysis product, not unexpected at all.

Like it's not unexpected that all of the general public are ignorant chemophobes, to different degrees.

vajraganja said:

Gray Wolf - i think you misunderstood the point i was making. there are grades of butane for a reason, you don't get pure 100% butane without work and money and you don't need 100% butane for a cigarette lighter which is what most people are buying. as much as we'd wish it that means lots of it's worth noting "parrafin" means alkane hydrocarbons covering everything from methane to hexacontane. the ones we're most concerned with in the topic of butane are methane to hexane but can contain the middle alkanes which are organic solvents and will leech all kinds of crap.

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G.O. Joe said:

It's a pyrolysis product, not unexpected at all.

Like it's not unexpected that all of the general public are ignorant chemophobes, to different degrees.

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You are correct VG, I erroneously left the word wax off after the word paraffin (wax) and am of course talking about what the producers refer to as oleaginous waxes. Specifically those longer chain alkanes with a melting point above ~37C/99F.

My point is that the other alkanes and paraffin wax contaminants in the brands of lighter butane typically used for extraction, are not toxic at the levels encountered or of concern.

Thanks for the clarifying that we are talking about ad hoc generation of random aromatics by pyrolysis GJ.

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