Got Some LED Drivers... Now how to apply.. - LED Grow Lights - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

Azeotrope · 02-03-2012, 01:46 AM

So, through some good fortune, I obtained LED drivers for free. They are new and were stock overrun that someone was told to throw away durring an inventory proccess.

I have 3 of the following: Advance LED-INTA-0024V-41-F-O

They are 24v 100w up to 4.1A. However, where I am still struggling is that they are not listing a constant current output. Just that a maximum of 4100ma at 24v.

Here is a link:
https://www.futureelectronics.com/en/...41FO.aspx?IM=0

The data sheet is there and the same site has the Luxeon LEDs in red, far red, royal blue and blue (and other colors) for pretty good pricing. I am now tempted to start a build, but am unsure as to how many and what kind of LEDs I can drive with this driver. Most drivers show a constant current output that may be adjustable.

Maybe knna or rives might throw me a tip here......... I have e-mailed philips and asked specifically how many of any one of those colors could run on a string on one of these drivers, but have not heard back.

The heatsink, assembly/build and so forth I can handle, but this type of driver seems to be a constant voltage and I am a LED cherry......

Thanks

Azeotrope · 02-03-2012, 02:27 AM

Did I break a rule with that link?

Azeotrope · 02-03-2012, 05:55 AM

After more research..... These are without a doubt, constant voltage drivers. High quality I would bet, but still constant voltage. They are used for multiple strings of pcb board arrays that have resistors and current limiting considerations such that multiple different pcbs can be attached in parallel (which is how we use them). Just never thought about using them. Then I tore one of our old used fixtures apart in the garage tonight, did a few more searches and found that these are without a doubt constant voltage.

Not impossible for me to use and I actually had a fair game plan in mind, but constant current is really the way to go. I think I will use them to light up the garage with some of the light bars I have left over and used.

Sorry for opening a thread in haste. I have moments of excitement like a little kid when I start thinking about building something. I just got a new veg cab started yesterday. Can anyone say small industrial fridge with a 70w 4k CMH on an electronic ballast? Don't need the darn thing, but built in AC (just put in a different stat), 1.5'x2' interior with racks and it is already flat bright white? At any rate. Peace to all. I will get some current drives some day and start a build for sure. But these aren't worth the effort or expense.

rives · 02-03-2012, 10:12 PM

Azeo, if I recall correctly, I ran across a post somewhere where a guy had used a constant voltage driver to push a LM317 or member of it's family to convert to a constant-current driver. I haven't used one in that arrangement, but I have used one as a voltage regulator and it burned off a lot of heat from the difference between the input voltage and the output. I'm not sure how they would react in a constant-current mode, but it would be fun to play with. I would think that those would be very nice drivers.

Azeotrope · 02-04-2012, 07:22 AM

rives, I got in touch with an engineer at a large dealer of these. He said that they are a constant voltage and constant current driver with a constant current output of 4100ma or 4.1a (I know you know that lol). He said they were designed to run multiple strings in parallel and do very well..... I have a design lay-out drawn up and just need to tune it. However, it will entail the use of NTC current limiting and possibly some PTC limiting as well. Using around 6 strings of 700ma rated Luxeon Rebels. Most will actually handle 1a but are rated at 350ma and 700ma. I can run 6 700ma strings and they will drive just under 700ma each. The beaty is that I could run 3 strings of deep red and 3 strings of red on one driver or 54 deep red on one with 6 strings of 9 each and hit the voltage and current just right.

With the luxeons, they are very close in fv and the selection is good in terms of ma handling. So, I can run one driver and cover blue, royal blue and 3500k - 4500k (white). Making the strings match up closely will be easy. A negative coefficient thermistor for each string will do a fair job of limiting current without too mutch waste while running and only about 200milliseconds of warm up to full flow. That should protect each string if one goes down and full current is layed out to the others.

I still have some calculating to do on ntc values as their resistance and ma/a ratings change with ambient temps so it is good to do some planning. There is the possibility of using a ptc on each string with the ntc as a complimentary pair for the best current limiting. I envision a separate board for each string with limiting and possible fusing in a remote driver box with the drivers that the light arrays would cable in to...... This is going to take me months as the budget is tight these days. I make six figures, but have had so many damn surgeries to repair old sports injuries in the last 2yrs and am going to have to have a knee replaced soon...... So I will be accumulating parts and pieces in chunks and hope to build in summer. Gives ample time to plan.... Some things like NEMA enclosure for drivers and the parts for the limiting "modules/boards" are cheap and easy for me due to work. But the heatsinks and LEDs are not cheap!

Any rate, that's the plan. You and others have set good examples, posted lots of good information and inspiration that will be great help. Thanks!

rives · 02-04-2012, 07:10 PM

Glad to hear that you've figured out a direction. Interesting approach with the thermistors - I've worked with equipment that used them as sensors, but I don't think I've ever seen them used for current-limiting.

Stretching out a project like this just makes it better, I think. That is why I bought a Lumigrow before building my fixture - I wanted to get some experience growing with LED's, but I didn't want to be rushed in the design/fabrication of my luminaire. This is supposed to be fun, not work!

Azeotrope · 02-04-2012, 10:28 PM

Thanks. Actually was thinking of NTCs as I use them all the time on control circuits that have where large contactors and starters have significant initial coil load when they are energized or cycle. So, I was researching them and found a very good read from Cree. The combination of PTC & NTC devices for current limiting on a string is their recommendation. So I was pleased to find that my mind was going the right direction. I use tons of thermistors for temp control and monitoring. However, you will find that if you google NTC current limitters, there are a lot of them designed for it. Heck I have a few bags of them that are too large for this application in my stock......

Thanks for the input and encouragement! Take care!

02-03-2012, 01:46 AM	#1
Azeotrope Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Where you aren't! Posts: 509	Got Some LED Drivers... Now how to apply.. So, through some good fortune, I obtained LED drivers for free. They are new and were stock overrun that someone was told to throw away durring an inventory proccess. I have 3 of the following: Advance LED-INTA-0024V-41-F-O They are 24v 100w up to 4.1A. However, where I am still struggling is that they are not listing a constant current output. Just that a maximum of 4100ma at 24v. Here is a link: https://www.futureelectronics.com/en/...41FO.aspx?IM=0 The data sheet is there and the same site has the Luxeon LEDs in red, far red, royal blue and blue (and other colors) for pretty good pricing. I am now tempted to start a build, but am unsure as to how many and what kind of LEDs I can drive with this driver. Most drivers show a constant current output that may be adjustable. Maybe knna or rives might throw me a tip here......... I have e-mailed philips and asked specifically how many of any one of those colors could run on a string on one of these drivers, but have not heard back. The heatsink, assembly/build and so forth I can handle, but this type of driver seems to be a constant voltage and I am a LED cherry...... Thanks
	Quote 1 members found this post helpful.

02-03-2012, 02:27 AM	#2
Azeotrope Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Where you aren't! Posts: 509	Did I break a rule with that link?
	Quote

02-03-2012, 05:55 AM	#3
Azeotrope Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Where you aren't! Posts: 509	After more research..... These are without a doubt, constant voltage drivers. High quality I would bet, but still constant voltage. They are used for multiple strings of pcb board arrays that have resistors and current limiting considerations such that multiple different pcbs can be attached in parallel (which is how we use them). Just never thought about using them. Then I tore one of our old used fixtures apart in the garage tonight, did a few more searches and found that these are without a doubt constant voltage. Not impossible for me to use and I actually had a fair game plan in mind, but constant current is really the way to go. I think I will use them to light up the garage with some of the light bars I have left over and used. Sorry for opening a thread in haste. I have moments of excitement like a little kid when I start thinking about building something. I just got a new veg cab started yesterday. Can anyone say small industrial fridge with a 70w 4k CMH on an electronic ballast? Don't need the darn thing, but built in AC (just put in a different stat), 1.5'x2' interior with racks and it is already flat bright white? At any rate. Peace to all. I will get some current drives some day and start a build for sure. But these aren't worth the effort or expense.
	Quote

02-03-2012, 10:12 PM	#4
rives Inveterate Tinkerer Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 6,090	Azeo, if I recall correctly, I ran across a post somewhere where a guy had used a constant voltage driver to push a LM317 or member of it's family to convert to a constant-current driver. I haven't used one in that arrangement, but I have used one as a voltage regulator and it burned off a lot of heat from the difference between the input voltage and the output. I'm not sure how they would react in a constant-current mode, but it would be fun to play with. I would think that those would be very nice drivers. __________________ Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH) - Overview & Information My DIY Hybrid LED/PL-L Luminaire The VolksLED - DIY LEDs for the Masses -Nutrient Calculator, Suggested Element Levels
	Quote

02-04-2012, 07:22 AM	#5
Azeotrope Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Where you aren't! Posts: 509	rives, I got in touch with an engineer at a large dealer of these. He said that they are a constant voltage and constant current driver with a constant current output of 4100ma or 4.1a (I know you know that lol). He said they were designed to run multiple strings in parallel and do very well..... I have a design lay-out drawn up and just need to tune it. However, it will entail the use of NTC current limiting and possibly some PTC limiting as well. Using around 6 strings of 700ma rated Luxeon Rebels. Most will actually handle 1a but are rated at 350ma and 700ma. I can run 6 700ma strings and they will drive just under 700ma each. The beaty is that I could run 3 strings of deep red and 3 strings of red on one driver or 54 deep red on one with 6 strings of 9 each and hit the voltage and current just right. With the luxeons, they are very close in fv and the selection is good in terms of ma handling. So, I can run one driver and cover blue, royal blue and 3500k - 4500k (white). Making the strings match up closely will be easy. A negative coefficient thermistor for each string will do a fair job of limiting current without too mutch waste while running and only about 200milliseconds of warm up to full flow. That should protect each string if one goes down and full current is layed out to the others. I still have some calculating to do on ntc values as their resistance and ma/a ratings change with ambient temps so it is good to do some planning. There is the possibility of using a ptc on each string with the ntc as a complimentary pair for the best current limiting. I envision a separate board for each string with limiting and possible fusing in a remote driver box with the drivers that the light arrays would cable in to...... This is going to take me months as the budget is tight these days. I make six figures, but have had so many damn surgeries to repair old sports injuries in the last 2yrs and am going to have to have a knee replaced soon...... So I will be accumulating parts and pieces in chunks and hope to build in summer. Gives ample time to plan.... Some things like NEMA enclosure for drivers and the parts for the limiting "modules/boards" are cheap and easy for me due to work. But the heatsinks and LEDs are not cheap! Any rate, that's the plan. You and others have set good examples, posted lots of good information and inspiration that will be great help. Thanks!
	Quote

02-04-2012, 07:10 PM	#6
rives Inveterate Tinkerer Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 6,090	Glad to hear that you've figured out a direction. Interesting approach with the thermistors - I've worked with equipment that used them as sensors, but I don't think I've ever seen them used for current-limiting. Stretching out a project like this just makes it better, I think. That is why I bought a Lumigrow before building my fixture - I wanted to get some experience growing with LED's, but I didn't want to be rushed in the design/fabrication of my luminaire. This is supposed to be fun, not work! __________________ Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH) - Overview & Information My DIY Hybrid LED/PL-L Luminaire The VolksLED - DIY LEDs for the Masses -Nutrient Calculator, Suggested Element Levels
	Quote

02-04-2012, 10:28 PM	#7
Azeotrope Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Where you aren't! Posts: 509	Thanks. Actually was thinking of NTCs as I use them all the time on control circuits that have where large contactors and starters have significant initial coil load when they are energized or cycle. So, I was researching them and found a very good read from Cree. The combination of PTC & NTC devices for current limiting on a string is their recommendation. So I was pleased to find that my mind was going the right direction. I use tons of thermistors for temp control and monitoring. However, you will find that if you google NTC current limitters, there are a lot of them designed for it. Heck I have a few bags of them that are too large for this application in my stock...... Thanks for the input and encouragement! Take care!
	Quote