[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by Stony Smurf

So it is possible that I am smoking more wax than cannabinoids; thus the horrid lung issue.

Perhaps I am missing something in the winterizing process then. Should I then mix with alcohol, then freeze for 24 hours. Then filter through the coffee filter?? I have been mixing, filtering and then freezing. Is this my problem?

I am sure I am having several problems, but the first I must correct is: why vaping (Torch heated nail method) produces a lasting deep lung hack (Not the normal smoker cough, but it feels as though my lungs are really sticky and causes major wheezing. symptoms 70% better 15 hours after smoking).

How are you getting the film thin? it seems to go from watery to sticky very fast? If I try to use a tool to thin it, I wind up with most of the material on the tool.

I am currently trying to get OilSlick to make a evap dish out of their silicone. They do not think there will be enough of a market to make something like that. Please send them an e-mail of interest if anyone out there would like to use something like that instead of crystallizing dishes or pyrex.

Thank you for your help. My next run will be my tops; the last of my saved store until next harvest in 5 weeks (uggg). I really don't want to mess that up.

Stony Smurf

You redissolve the BHO in Ethanol, filter it, and place it in the freezer for a minimum of 48 hours, before filter a second time to remove the waxes.

You can get a thin film by starting with 1/4" of saturated oil and alcohol, and cold boiling away the alcohol at 115F and -29.9" Hg.

You can also get a thin film from raw oleoresin, by smearing a small amount in a Petri dish and heating until it spreads out and thins out all by itself.

If I dab BHO with the waxes still in it, I get a coated lung feeling too. Oil that has been winterized doesn't produce that same effect.

I'm pretty sure Oil Slick won't offer a dish, as they don't recommend spraying butane directly on their pad.

They have agreed to send Skunk Pharm Research one free for testing, so we will report back with more info after we have done that, but the alkanes cause silicone rubber to swell, and shed some surface particles left by the manufacturing process.

Here is Joshua's reply to my request for a test sample:

Hi Greywolf,

I am sure you know, silicone swells in the presence on non-polar solvents. Hexane is actually used as a “swelling agent” for silicone tubing to allow for an easier connection.

The swelling effect is the primary reason why silicone makes a poor compatibility choice when selecting a material to come into prolonged direct contact with non-polars.

As you must also be aware, chemical contamination from “extractables” in silicone materials, (in a procedure such as you are describing) is due almost entirely to the physical release of low molecular weight siloxanes, and other impurities from the manufacturing process.

This is why Tygon 3350, or SaniTech-Ultra, are made with platinum cured silicone rather than the more common peroxide cured variety. This is also why We use platinum catalyzed USP6 silicone in our pads. (rather than peroxide/food grade).

As far as I am aware, we are the ONLY company doing this. The cost of material for a simple “baking mat” would be prohibitive in that industry.

For the record (sometime I feel like a broken record)We do not sell the Pad to spray directly onto. Many (many) folks do, and when we realized it (july of 2012), we switched the silicone we use as our raw material as a prophylactic measure.

We also removed the Logo from our pads, because we feared that immersion in non-polar solvent could act to weaken the bond between that thin layer of logo silicone, and the pad beneath.

As concerned as we were about the logo....i cringe when I see folks spraying into parchment. The matrix of silicone in common parchment paper (non-Quilon / silicone coated) is extremely fragile compared to a pad. I imagine the violence of swelling and shrinking on that scale would be tenfold compared to the effect that prompted our own change of material.

The physical wear of swelling/shrinking/swelling/shrinking along with the various stresses inflicted by the innovative public (razor blades, torches etc...) make any sort of performance warranty unmanageable.

So we make em as pure as it gets, and when people ask us....we tell em that if they insist on using them this way, to please discard them if they notice any physical degradation.

I would refrain from cutting the pad to perform your testing, as this will expose the inner weave. Once cut or torn, the physical consequences of swelling could lead to damage along the exposed area.

Let me know where to send it, and I will get a Pad out to you today. Always happy to hear your thoughts. I redacted about 2 pages of hyper technical diatribe from this email.... because I figured you have likely done your own research regarding Pt cured silicone, and the various plasticizers that are used in food grade silicone. This is understandably a topic quite close to my heart; and I will be vary happy to discuss at length should you have specific questions (or non-specific musings?).

Also, should you require it, you have my explicit permission to share anything we discuss with whichever forums you are involved in.

Regards,
Joshua

[Stony Smurf]

Interesting.... What about alcohol??? I have a Tami... so I "spray" in that. Then I transfer to pyrex and add alcohol and cold boil in the Vac. Is Alcohol a solvent that would eat that silicone???

Stony Smurf
I re-dissolved it and it's freezing.. The waxes can clearly be seen after only 24 hours.. I'll start filtering it Saturday afternoon. I am certain that the wax was the problem now

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by Stony Smurf

Interesting.... What about alcohol??? I have a Tami... so I "spray" in that. Then I transfer to pyrex and add alcohol and cold boil in the Vac. Is Alcohol a solvent that would eat that silicone???

Stony Smurf
I re-dissolved it and it's freezing.. The waxes can clearly be seen after only 24 hours.. I'll start filtering it Saturday afternoon. I am certain that the wax was the problem now

Silicone rubber shows slight corrosion and discolloration in ethyl alcohol, according to https://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

[Stony Smurf]

<sigh> It says slight... I wonder how much.

Today I finished the reconstitution of my "King Lung butter" batch. I dissolved 2.5g of that ick in 2.75oz (I know cross measuring) EverClear 190 proof. Froze it for 38 hours.... I was stunned at the ugly cloud that formed. I filtered through 2 coffee filters ( I read the thread about the irregularities in filters). Up to this point, everything is in wine glasses. I did the filtering in the fridge, careful to not warm the suspension/solution.

I vacuum purged about 1h45m. I probably chickened out too soon. The bubbles were small and consistent in shape.

I quick cooled in the fridge. What I got out was about 15-19% less. I didn't weigh it. It is very strong; significantly more than previous.. It's much more stable than previous I am still probably not doing it right; or this batch is just over worked.

the next fresh raw material I get is still a few weeks out. It seems that fresh is best.

thank you for the help. I'll not hijack the sticky thread with my technique refining questions.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/images/smilies/thank%20you.gif
Stony Smurf

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by Stony Smurf

<sigh> It says slight... I wonder how much.

Good question! How many carcinogens are too many?

[Stony Smurf]

Latest batch is doing something very weird. I used about 40g. of C grade flowers in my Tami with 2 oz. 190 proof as a transfer solvent. I did it in 2 runs, leaving the solution in the Tami until I completed both batches of raw material. I evaporated the tane in the usual way (love reclamation).

I transferred the liquid solution into 1000ml beakers and winterized for 2.5 days. I filtered through 2 organic coffee filters into a lined 1000ml beaker (I found non-stick beaker liners. Kind of expensive. I am not yet sure if they are worth it).

I warm boiled out the alcohol in 2 runs at about 115F (though I spiked a couple of times) at -29.95. I would have preferred to do it in 1 run, but my vacuum is not really meant for a long duration constant pull (I could use recommendations for a good constant pull variety).

By the end of the first time in the Vac, it was soupy and clearly tasted as though it had alcohol in it. The next day I re-warmed it on an 0!l $lick pad on the bottom of my chamber (on the oven top). When I was done, I had a gorgeous 4 gram rock solid sheet of goo. I flash froze it to solidify it; then carefully folded it into a little solid mass.

It remained that way for about 40 hours; folds very visible with only rudimentary aspects of melting into itself.

Now it seems to be decomposing. It is losing it's solidity and becoming kind of 'wet/granulated'... though it's not really wet. It seems a little less potent (or my tolerance has gone up); though the high is significantly longer than just the flowers. It becomes more granulated as the days have been going on.

Suggestions??

Stony Smurf

[JColtrane]

I don't have any "tech info" to back this up, other than 1000's of hours of experience ... but I hate to "fold" my oil. Even when I'm dealing with oil that I've winterized ... I prefer to "stretch" when oil is just right. Not to warm, not too cold. I feel the same way about pressing, or rolling out oil. This might be the problem with your nucleation ... just a thought, good luck

[dybert]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

Good question! How many carcinogens are too many?

I was under the impression (from my own personal research) that no silcone would ever leech from the swelling aspects of butane/silicone reaction.

Would be great to do some GC residual tests based on silicone leeching out.

(We are probably picking up both a GC and HPLC in the near future here)

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by dybert

I was under the impression (from my own personal research) that no silcone would ever leech from the swelling aspects of butane/silicone reaction.

Would be great to do some GC residual tests based on silicone leeching out.

(We are probably picking up both a GC and HPLC in the near future here)

From Oil Slicks representative:

Hi Greywolf,


I am sure you know, silicone swells in the presence on non-polar solvents. Hexane is actually used as a “swelling agent” for silicone tubing to allow for an easier connection.
The swelling effect is the primary reason why silicone makes a poor compatibility choice when selecting a material to come into prolonged direct contact with non-polars.


As you must also be aware, chemical contamination from “extractables” in silicone materials, (in a procedure such as you are describing) is due almost entirely to the physical release of low molecular weight siloxanes, and other impurities from the manufacturing process.


This is why Tygon 3350, or SaniTech-Ultra, are made with platinum cured silicone rather than the more common peroxide cured variety. This is also why We use platinum catalyzed USP6 silicone in our pads. (rather than peroxide/food grade).


As far as I am aware, we are the ONLY company doing this. The cost of material for a simple “baking mat” would be prohibitive in that industry.


For the record (sometime I feel like abroken record)We do not sell the Pad to spray directly onto. Many (many) folks do, and when we realized it (july of 2012), we switched the silicone we use as our raw material as aprophylactic measure.


We also removed the Logo from our pads, because we feared that immersion in non-polar solvent could act to weaken the bond between that thin layer of logo silicone, and the pad beneath. As concerned as we were about the logo....i cringe when I see folks spraying into parchment. The matrix of silicone in common parchment paper (non-Quilon / silicone coated) is extremely fragile compared to a pad. I imagine the violence of swelling and shrinking on that scale would be tenfold compared to the effect that prompted our own change of material.
The physical wear of swelling/shrinking/swelling/shrinking along with the various stresses inflicted by the innovative public (razor blades, torches etc...) make any sort of performance warranty unmanageable.


So we make em as pure as it gets, and when people ask us....we tell em that if they insist on using them this way, to please discard them if they notice any physical degradation.
I would refrain from cutting the pad to perform your testing, as this will expose the inner weave. Once cut or torn, the physical consequences of swelling could lead to damage along the exposed area.


Let me know where to send it, and I will get a Pad out to you today. Always happy to hear your thoughts. I redacted about 2 pages of hyper technical diatribe from this email.... because I figured you have likely done your own research regarding Pt cured silicone, and the various plasticizers that are used in food grade silicone. This is understandably a topic quite close to my heart; and I will be vary happy to discuss at length should you have specific questions (or non-specific musings?).


Also, should you require it, you have my explicit permission to share anything we discuss with whichever forums you are involved in.


Regards,


Joshua

[dybert]

Yeah, I read that post GW, that's kind of why I responded. From that response, I still am not convinced one way or another. Someone else needs to actually run proper experiments under the conditions we are talking about.

I want to see GC results testing for these specific low molecular weight Siloxanes, to prove if they do indeed leech out.