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Old 12-12-2011, 02:11 PM   #16
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i know butane is used as a propellant in cooking sprays right ?
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadKittySmiles View Post
There's nothing wrong with doing what you feel is best, with your meds


Most of us aren't as fortunate to have good, or any, results by simply adding unprocessed extracts and hash into edibles, and it is fairly common knowledge that a lipid vehicle or 'edible solvent' enhances cellular permeability greatly, and drastically improves both the strength and duration of the experience and allows for much more active chemical content to enter the system and blood stream, which is precisely why we use the oils, alcohol and glycerin solvents, we do. But everyone is certainly entitled to process their material as much, or as little as they like.



"Absorption of THC by the gastrointestinal tract is quite effective, but relatively slow and erratic. The food content of the stomach may affect the rate of absorption. Even though cannabis resin is poorly soluble in water, effective emulsions or suspensions of cannabinoids in water can be achieved for oral consumption.. Furthermore, if THC is given by oral ingestion, the vehicle in which it is administered (for example, alcohol, sesame oil or glycocholic acid solution) can significantly affect the rate of absorption and the intensity and duration of the drug effects."

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...dain/ldc2d.htm



"THC is a hydrophobic oil and, as such, is insoluble in water. Therefore, in order be properly converted, it must be extracted into fats, oils, or alcohol, all of which can bind with the cannabinoids to properly deliver the compound to the body."

http://www.thecannabischef.com/conte...oking-cannabis
Out of all due respect, as I know you have been helpful to many people and are a great contributor, I humbly don't agree that extracting Kief into BHO or Alcohol extraction, improves it's strength and duration. I have tested this many times (side by side tests). Those scientific quotes are great, and helpful, but when I do side-by-side tests it's clear as day.

I also know I am not the only one. I have talked to a few Major Named brand candy makers for California Dispensaries, and they also go the non-solvent route for hard candy these days as they came to the same conclusion as I have.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:10 PM   #18
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BadKittySmiles, I appreciate the effort you've put forth in explaining your methodology, but as I said before, this is what I know works for me within the parameters and limitations that I have. I get enough trim from each grow to make over 1000 pieces of candy. (although to be honest, I rarely make more than two batches of candy at a time) It only takes two of those pieces to finish me off. Why would I need anything more? I do not suffer from a shortage of product. BHO is the easiest method of extraction for me because it requires no thought. Load it up, run the butane through, collect the sticky stuff, purge it. I'm not in it for any extra lengthy procedures. Edibles are not my primary focus. Growing nugs is. The BHO and the candy I make with it are just a bonus. So I will politely ask that if you wish to continue to extol the virtues of lipids, glycerides and fatty acid chains or whatever, please do so in another thread. People looking for that information may not necessarily turn to this thread for answers. I have already said that I am not interested in additional processing, because the method I described in my first post already works satisfactorily enough for me, and should also work for anybody else with similar considerations. Again, thank you.

As for the safety of butane in food products: Butane is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the FDA for use in the production of food as a solvent (typically for oils used in flavorings), refrigerant (least toxic refrigerant gas) and propellant (in products like PAM). OSHA and the CDC concluded that prolonged exposure to inhaled butane at levels of 500ppm for 8 hours a day, five days a week for two weeks did not induce any toxicity or narcotic effects in the volunteer test subjects. If you do everything correctly, I would be surprised if you have trace levels of butane higher than 20ppm. To put that in perspective, at 20ppm, if you had 15ml of BHO, you would only find 0.3 microliters of butane in it. As butane is present in natural gas, you probably inhale more than that just lighting your stove.

With that being said, I will acknowledge that there are some very real dangers to using butane as a solvent. However those dangers do not come from ingesting trace amounts.

Flammability - this is a no brainer. Do it outside, and don't have any open flames or sources of ignition near by. Even if you're using a closed recovery system. This risk also exists when you purge the oil. Always purge outside.

Contamination - Not necessarily from the butane itself, but from the materials used in the extraction apparatus. Contrary to popular belief, PVC and butane are not compatible. PVC is susceptible to attack by butane, and will actually dissolve into solution after repeated use. Stainless steel, aluminum or glass are all much better options than PVC. Also, you need to use pure butane. Camp stove fuel will not do. It has propane and mercaptans in it. Lucienne and other "refined" lighter fuel will suffice, but 99.5% or higher from Airgas or Praxair are the best.

Asphyxiation - Butane displaces oxygen. Aside from the risk of fire, this is the next most important reason not to use butane indoors.

Intoxication - If you inhale butane, you will get messed up. Not in a good way. Again, doing your extraction outside will reduce the risk of this.

These are risks that can be mitigated through proper techniques and procedures. They are risks that I will gladly live with when compared to other techniques that use hexane, isopropyl alcohol, acetone or MEK, which are all much more toxic than butane. Butane gets a lot of grief over impurities and toxicity that is simply unfounded. Meanwhile, other methods are being promoted that use known poisons. In my opinion, there is no comparison.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Herborizer View Post
BHO and other solvents are not needed.

Take the Keif/BubbleHash/DryIce Hash and put it in the oven at 235F for 1 hour.

Using your hard candy recipe, add the powdered hash into the cooking pot when everything is still cold. First the Surgar, then corn syrup, water, then sprinkle the hash as finely as possible. Add heat and stir it up real nice.

Cook it to soft crack instead of hard crack. Do everything else the same.

These will be super potent, fast acting (15 minutes or less), and cleaner. Saves tons of time and it has less crap in it. And yes, the hash melts up just fine.

As far as strength, I mix 2 grams of kief per cup of sugar used to make candy.
My experience with bubble yielded a candy that was very rough in texture. What size screen did you use to make your candy? That may be the key factor here. It's likely that my bubble had a lot more than just glandular material in it, which did not melt in the syrup.

I still maintain that using BHO is better, but I am open to the idea that my bubble hash may not have been ideal for this purpose because of how it was made.
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:27 PM   #20
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To each their own

The vast majority of my patients and the numerous clinics and caregivers out west who I've educated, have never had better success by cutting corners during processing, it's widely known that lipids, alcohol and glycerin enhance cellular permeability... that's why many more people, and especially more professionals use them during processing, than those who don't.


But like I said, they are your meds, and you may certainly feel free to process them however you like and do whatever works best for you. How you feel about your meds makes a big difference in how they effect you as well, and if your mind tells you they work better, you're going to have a better experience, much like the placebo effect.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatcurve View Post
My experience with bubble yielded a candy that was very rough in texture. What size screen did you use to make your candy? That may be the key factor here. It's likely that my bubble had a lot more than just glandular material in it, which did not melt in the syrup.

I still maintain that using BHO is better, but I am open to the idea that my bubble hash may not have been ideal for this purpose because of how it was made.
I like your style. BHO for sure works awesome. Though, if I can help you get the same results, I bet you would love saving some cash and the extra work/time.

I make my Kief with the dry ice method. I use both the "red" bag (I believe it's 180) and my tumbler which uses a 220 screen.

I make sure to put in the Kief when the stove is off. I also make sure to sprinkle it so that there is no clumps. Once the heat is applied, I do mix it quite often to ensure it all melts into the sugar. These days I add no food color and no flavoring. El-natural is some of the most tasty candies. They have a very beautiful color as well. They kind of come out golden looking.

Experiment some. Its worth a few tries to dial in the method. Because in the end, if you can eliminate BHO it will save you tons of time and a little money.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadKittySmiles View Post
To each their own

The vast majority of my patients and the numerous clinics and caregivers out west who I've educated, have never had better success by cutting corners during processing, it's widely known that lipids, alcohol and glycerin enhance cellular permeability... that's why many more people, and especially more professionals use them during processing, than those who don't.

Again, thank you for your contributions to the Canna community. You have been wonderful.

I can tell you that I sat there and talked to some of the national brands of candy makers (just because I like the candies best, and I was excited to pick their brains) at a show a little while back, they too stopped using solvents for hard candy. Not sure what else to say here.

With Qwet extractions, I would use 2 grams of solvent extracted oil per cup of sugar. With raw Kief, I am using 2 grams of Kief per cup of sugar. Same intensity and effect. They actually taste and look better with raw Kief. What more can I say? How is this short cutting? I just can't understand why I would add extra cost and steps to making candy that add no benefit that I can observe.

Personally, here is my theory. This is just a theory... I think that the major issue with people using RAW kief is decarbalixation (sorry on spelling). I think that more and more needs to be understood about decarbalixation. I think it's the key to edibles. Yes, I know you are aware of it's importance BadKittySmiles, I have read and enjoyed many of your threads.

I think that most people don't realize the importance of decarbalixation, because when they make Canna Butter they are decarbalixating the Cannaboids by heating it in butter for hours and hours (and they don't know it). Same for Qwet, ISO, Napta extractions. I believe the solvent reacts to the cannanaboids which speeds up the natural decarbalixation. Also, usually heat is applied to cook off the solvent. Same for BHO (except for the heat part).

All in all, I think it boils down to the decarbalixation. This is why I suggest heating the Kief for at least an hour at 235F. I use an hour at 235F with starting material that is mostly already cured (at least a month or so after drying, 2-3 months better). If I was going to work with younger/not-cured material, I would heat it in the oven for maybe 1.5 hours or so.
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:05 PM   #23
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My BHO gets decarboxed/purged in an oil bath in a small crock pot. Seems to work fine.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:55 PM   #24
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nice recipe, thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by hammalamma View Post
A whole bunch of food items are prepared with butane. BHO is not bad for you if done correctly.Take a look at some of the threads in the hash section.
i use bho in all cooking as it is the only way to get precise doses. and yes, butane is used in food processing. since i make the bho i use, i know it is clean. i hate the taste of petroleum products. i am a recovering alcoholic so do not use alcohol tinctures and glycerine upsets my stomach. kief and bubble do not provide the ability to mix to homogeneity....so i use bho...refined.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:33 PM   #26
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just made my first batch of these yesterday. Made only a half batch because it was my first attempt. Turned out pretty darn good. I used a packet of kool-aid dissolved in a bit of water as opposed to flavoring. The flavor was good, but definitely need to add a second packet next time, as there is a VERY strong cannabis flavor, i personally dont mind the taste of cannabis, but this is a bit overwhelming for me. I didnt have candy molds either so i just poured it onto a piece of parchment paper and broke it up into little pieces. About 3 grams of the candy gave me a very nice, uplifting high, with the first feelings before the time the candy was fully dissolved (tucked it up between my gum and lip). Felt the full effects within the hour, and then i ate another 3 grams, and unlike any other edible ive had, i wanted to get up and dance around and be active, not lay motionless on the couch. Going to be making another batch today, with more flavoring definitely. Ill let you guys know how it goes! Thanks a lot flatcurve for the recipe!!
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #27
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Nice thread and good info! I make a lot of candy myself, cool to see some other people doing it. Just my two cents though: LorAnn flavoring oils suck ass. I would recommend trying these guys, their flavoring oils are far superior IMO, as well as cheaper:

http://getsuckered.com/Category/Cand...-and-Oils.aspx
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:30 PM   #28
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just made my first batch of these yesterday. Made only a half batch because it was my first attempt. Turned out pretty darn good. I used a packet of kool-aid dissolved in a bit of water as opposed to flavoring. The flavor was good, but definitely need to add a second packet next time, as there is a VERY strong cannabis flavor, i personally dont mind the taste of cannabis, but this is a bit overwhelming for me. I didnt have candy molds either so i just poured it onto a piece of parchment paper and broke it up into little pieces. About 3 grams of the candy gave me a very nice, uplifting high, with the first feelings before the time the candy was fully dissolved (tucked it up between my gum and lip). Felt the full effects within the hour, and then i ate another 3 grams, and unlike any other edible ive had, i wanted to get up and dance around and be active, not lay motionless on the couch. Going to be making another batch today, with more flavoring definitely. Ill let you guys know how it goes! Thanks a lot flatcurve for the recipe!!
throw the cool aid out the window. best cover for cannabis besides chocolate is cinnamon. cool aid is unhealthy.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:57 PM   #29
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i happen to have a hobby lobby next door, ill run over there and try and grab some cinnamon flavoring oil. how much do you add? im doing half batches with 2 grams of bho to one cup sugar
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:55 PM   #30
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Again, for those who are interested in making edibles that use the potency available as efficiently, and as wisely as possible, just google my user name.. oil matters!

Cannabis glandular material is notoriously difficult for the body to absorb, even when active, even when it is in the form of a warm tacky concentrate. Even in small enough form, the chemicals bounce off our cellular walls when they are not held in the form of a bioavailable solution... fat, helps our body absorb cannabis glandular material, and certain fats help more than others.
This is why even eating a fatty meal a few hours beforehand can slightly aid absorption, it lubes up cell walls and prepares them for sliding cannabinoids through. But by eating glandular material and sugar alone, you are missing out on multiple stronger doses, to achieve the desired effect for one single dose.


We use the same techniques used by the pharmaceutical industry to promote the absorption of certain resistant chemicals, it's sometimes called liposomal encapsulation (or LET), it is when at a micro level a chemical or chemical-containing solute has not only been broken down into small enough particles to be capable of passing through cellular walls, but it is when a solution is formed in such a way that the solvent (ie oil; readily absorbed by the body) forms a persistent coat around the miniscule particles of solute.

It is said that the rate of delivery provided by liposomally treated chemicals, taken orally, is almost comparable to intravenous delivery.


Rather than the lesser alternative of relying on the cell walls being oily, or oily enough, when the particles themselves are coated and individually 'lubed up', they pass through as easily, as though they were made of oil themselves.


We use the 'edible solvents' we do, not just because they break down or extract our material, which is certainly important, but because they facilitate the absorption of that material.






The oil source you choose, even dictates where in your body the potency is absorbed... choose the wrong oil, or skip out all together, and you miss out on much of the conversion from D9THC, to the more powerful 11-OH-THC, that takes place in the liver.

Long-chain triglyceride chaining oils are primarily absorbed lymphatically, and bypass the liver. This can be good for those with certain liver/metabolism ailments, or patients who can not eat in the morning before medicating (as a too-hungry liver can over metabolize cannabinoids.. a long-chain canna capsule before breakfast will peak hunger, and a medium-chain canna capsule after breakfast will provide much more relief, from much less material).
Medium-chain triglyceride containing oils however are absorbed much more readily, and passively without the aid of bile-salts, for delivery through the portal vein and liver where the potentiating conversion takes place! Nine out of ten patients, and most recreational users, are looking for the effects provided by cannabis when its potency is carried by and delivered in a MCT oil.


Again, to each their own, and as I've said before how you feel about your meds is often very important. Placebo effect aside though, actually absorbing a greater ratio of your meds helps most of all! I've worked with and helped the most stubborn and elderly patients who were for years, stuck fast on the old and outdated methods used since the 60's and earlier, they've since opened their eyes, and have found that by putting in the time and effort to make their edibles as well as possible (or by instructing their caregivers to do so), that they now have several times the meds from, the same amount of material they are allotted or can afford each month.

So just google 'BadKittySmiles' for a more comprehensive recipe list and series of tutorials, which are both dispensary and Granny Storm Crow approved, and have helped hundreds of thousands of patients over the last decade or so absorb the most potency from both their concentrates and flowers.
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