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Old 12-12-2011, 02:13 AM #11
Herborizer
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....
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Last edited by Herborizer; 12-12-2011 at 02:45 AM..
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:35 AM #12
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Originally Posted by Herborizer View Post
Forget it. I had a long response to this...

Here is what I recommend to the masses. Try both ways. Find out for yourself.
I definitely agree... in kitchens (and labs!) all across the world, and particularly in the dispensaries and clinics, a lot of trial and error has taken place and we've all come to the same conclusion. I urge all patients to do the same.


It's why Granny Storm Crow has included much of the above in her medical list, as well as my online 'recipe book'.

If you haven't seen her work, you're missing out, she's put so much of her energy and time in compiling hundreds of studies, and thousands of pages of documentation!
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:36 AM #13
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We all have not come to the same conclusion, I will leave it at that for now.
__________________
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Learning to make my own medicine
Thank goodness for compassionate California and Prop 215

**Growing in Canna Coco, Canna Coco A/B nutes, Cannazyme (never in the res), H&G Dripclean, and Bloombastic in flower. Drip to waste, using Tropf Blumats. Scrog. Blumat Thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111046

**Cloning failing?
Chlorine could be the missing link: ICMAG Link

Check Your Hydro Hoses!!! NGW Hose toxic issue: ICMAG Link

Fear Mongering doesn't require a shred of proof. It's just a bunch of garbage that instills fear and anxiety into those who don't have the facts.

Please vote for a dedicated Cloning/Propagation & Mother's Forum: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226281

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Old 12-12-2011, 08:00 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herborizer View Post
We all have not come to the same conclusion, I will leave it at that for now.
There's nothing wrong with doing what you feel is best, with your meds


Most of us aren't as fortunate to have good, or any, results by simply adding unprocessed extracts and hash into edibles, and it is fairly common knowledge that a lipid vehicle or 'edible solvent' enhances cellular permeability greatly, and drastically improves both the strength and duration of the experience and allows for much more active chemical content to enter the system and blood stream, which is precisely why we use the oils, alcohol and glycerin solvents, we do. But everyone is certainly entitled to process their material as much, or as little as they like.



"Absorption of THC by the gastrointestinal tract is quite effective, but relatively slow and erratic. The food content of the stomach may affect the rate of absorption. Even though cannabis resin is poorly soluble in water, effective emulsions or suspensions of cannabinoids in water can be achieved for oral consumption.. Furthermore, if THC is given by oral ingestion, the vehicle in which it is administered (for example, alcohol, sesame oil or glycocholic acid solution) can significantly affect the rate of absorption and the intensity and duration of the drug effects."

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...dain/ldc2d.htm



"THC is a hydrophobic oil and, as such, is insoluble in water. Therefore, in order be properly converted, it must be extracted into fats, oils, or alcohol, all of which can bind with the cannabinoids to properly deliver the compound to the body."

http://www.thecannabischef.com/conte...oking-cannabis
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:33 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faintfuzzies View Post
I kinda wondering about how safe ingesting bho really is ? I heard that even if bho is purged with a Vac chamber that there might be harmful elements left over from butane still in the oil. I dont know if this is true or not i would love to hear what everyones thoughts are on this and if any one know of any research/test results proving or disproving this ? I know there is a better way to make it ,talisuim extraction system device( spelled wrong i know ) where you dont vent butane into the air and all the butane is recovered , this might be the way its done to make sure its not harmful to ingest ? 1500.00 bucks or so for equipment though.

Thank you

faint
A whole bunch of food items are prepared with butane. BHO is not bad for you if done correctly.Take a look at some of the threads in the hash section.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:11 PM #16
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i know butane is used as a propellant in cooking sprays right ?
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:30 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadKittySmiles View Post
There's nothing wrong with doing what you feel is best, with your meds


Most of us aren't as fortunate to have good, or any, results by simply adding unprocessed extracts and hash into edibles, and it is fairly common knowledge that a lipid vehicle or 'edible solvent' enhances cellular permeability greatly, and drastically improves both the strength and duration of the experience and allows for much more active chemical content to enter the system and blood stream, which is precisely why we use the oils, alcohol and glycerin solvents, we do. But everyone is certainly entitled to process their material as much, or as little as they like.



"Absorption of THC by the gastrointestinal tract is quite effective, but relatively slow and erratic. The food content of the stomach may affect the rate of absorption. Even though cannabis resin is poorly soluble in water, effective emulsions or suspensions of cannabinoids in water can be achieved for oral consumption.. Furthermore, if THC is given by oral ingestion, the vehicle in which it is administered (for example, alcohol, sesame oil or glycocholic acid solution) can significantly affect the rate of absorption and the intensity and duration of the drug effects."

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...dain/ldc2d.htm



"THC is a hydrophobic oil and, as such, is insoluble in water. Therefore, in order be properly converted, it must be extracted into fats, oils, or alcohol, all of which can bind with the cannabinoids to properly deliver the compound to the body."

http://www.thecannabischef.com/conte...oking-cannabis
Out of all due respect, as I know you have been helpful to many people and are a great contributor, I humbly don't agree that extracting Kief into BHO or Alcohol extraction, improves it's strength and duration. I have tested this many times (side by side tests). Those scientific quotes are great, and helpful, but when I do side-by-side tests it's clear as day.

I also know I am not the only one. I have talked to a few Major Named brand candy makers for California Dispensaries, and they also go the non-solvent route for hard candy these days as they came to the same conclusion as I have.
__________________
**********************
Learning to make my own medicine
Thank goodness for compassionate California and Prop 215

**Growing in Canna Coco, Canna Coco A/B nutes, Cannazyme (never in the res), H&G Dripclean, and Bloombastic in flower. Drip to waste, using Tropf Blumats. Scrog. Blumat Thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111046

**Cloning failing?
Chlorine could be the missing link: ICMAG Link

Check Your Hydro Hoses!!! NGW Hose toxic issue: ICMAG Link

Fear Mongering doesn't require a shred of proof. It's just a bunch of garbage that instills fear and anxiety into those who don't have the facts.

Please vote for a dedicated Cloning/Propagation & Mother's Forum: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226281

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Old 12-12-2011, 03:10 PM #18
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BadKittySmiles, I appreciate the effort you've put forth in explaining your methodology, but as I said before, this is what I know works for me within the parameters and limitations that I have. I get enough trim from each grow to make over 1000 pieces of candy. (although to be honest, I rarely make more than two batches of candy at a time) It only takes two of those pieces to finish me off. Why would I need anything more? I do not suffer from a shortage of product. BHO is the easiest method of extraction for me because it requires no thought. Load it up, run the butane through, collect the sticky stuff, purge it. I'm not in it for any extra lengthy procedures. Edibles are not my primary focus. Growing nugs is. The BHO and the candy I make with it are just a bonus. So I will politely ask that if you wish to continue to extol the virtues of lipids, glycerides and fatty acid chains or whatever, please do so in another thread. People looking for that information may not necessarily turn to this thread for answers. I have already said that I am not interested in additional processing, because the method I described in my first post already works satisfactorily enough for me, and should also work for anybody else with similar considerations. Again, thank you.

As for the safety of butane in food products: Butane is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the FDA for use in the production of food as a solvent (typically for oils used in flavorings), refrigerant (least toxic refrigerant gas) and propellant (in products like PAM). OSHA and the CDC concluded that prolonged exposure to inhaled butane at levels of 500ppm for 8 hours a day, five days a week for two weeks did not induce any toxicity or narcotic effects in the volunteer test subjects. If you do everything correctly, I would be surprised if you have trace levels of butane higher than 20ppm. To put that in perspective, at 20ppm, if you had 15ml of BHO, you would only find 0.3 microliters of butane in it. As butane is present in natural gas, you probably inhale more than that just lighting your stove.

With that being said, I will acknowledge that there are some very real dangers to using butane as a solvent. However those dangers do not come from ingesting trace amounts.

Flammability - this is a no brainer. Do it outside, and don't have any open flames or sources of ignition near by. Even if you're using a closed recovery system. This risk also exists when you purge the oil. Always purge outside.

Contamination - Not necessarily from the butane itself, but from the materials used in the extraction apparatus. Contrary to popular belief, PVC and butane are not compatible. PVC is susceptible to attack by butane, and will actually dissolve into solution after repeated use. Stainless steel, aluminum or glass are all much better options than PVC. Also, you need to use pure butane. Camp stove fuel will not do. It has propane and mercaptans in it. Lucienne and other "refined" lighter fuel will suffice, but 99.5% or higher from Airgas or Praxair are the best.

Asphyxiation - Butane displaces oxygen. Aside from the risk of fire, this is the next most important reason not to use butane indoors.

Intoxication - If you inhale butane, you will get messed up. Not in a good way. Again, doing your extraction outside will reduce the risk of this.

These are risks that can be mitigated through proper techniques and procedures. They are risks that I will gladly live with when compared to other techniques that use hexane, isopropyl alcohol, acetone or MEK, which are all much more toxic than butane. Butane gets a lot of grief over impurities and toxicity that is simply unfounded. Meanwhile, other methods are being promoted that use known poisons. In my opinion, there is no comparison.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:54 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herborizer View Post
BHO and other solvents are not needed.

Take the Keif/BubbleHash/DryIce Hash and put it in the oven at 235F for 1 hour.

Using your hard candy recipe, add the powdered hash into the cooking pot when everything is still cold. First the Surgar, then corn syrup, water, then sprinkle the hash as finely as possible. Add heat and stir it up real nice.

Cook it to soft crack instead of hard crack. Do everything else the same.

These will be super potent, fast acting (15 minutes or less), and cleaner. Saves tons of time and it has less crap in it. And yes, the hash melts up just fine.

As far as strength, I mix 2 grams of kief per cup of sugar used to make candy.
My experience with bubble yielded a candy that was very rough in texture. What size screen did you use to make your candy? That may be the key factor here. It's likely that my bubble had a lot more than just glandular material in it, which did not melt in the syrup.

I still maintain that using BHO is better, but I am open to the idea that my bubble hash may not have been ideal for this purpose because of how it was made.
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:27 PM #20
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To each their own

The vast majority of my patients and the numerous clinics and caregivers out west who I've educated, have never had better success by cutting corners during processing, it's widely known that lipids, alcohol and glycerin enhance cellular permeability... that's why many more people, and especially more professionals use them during processing, than those who don't.


But like I said, they are your meds, and you may certainly feel free to process them however you like and do whatever works best for you. How you feel about your meds makes a big difference in how they effect you as well, and if your mind tells you they work better, you're going to have a better experience, much like the placebo effect.
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