[Crusader Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Choc

Hey Guys i want to discuss a few things about monster cropping and Plant Degradation...
...
But would you run in to problems if you was flowering and revegging a plant again and again infinitely...

If you do this over and over with the same line I see a potential for possible degradation. After many generations of this the clones should still have the same DNA, but it could be expressing itself differently. I'm talking about epigenetic change. Flowering is a big transition point in the life cycle of a plant. Genes are activated which cause the plant to express it's growth in a new direction. For most plants they'll never go back. This is a one way trip.

In our artificial grow environment we can get plants to reveg, so obviously many genes which determine vegetative growth are back to their old ways. But if the plants are somehow permanently different now (monster crop growth pattern) then some genes have been activated to cause this new growth pattern and they aren't going back. Any clones thereafter will show this new genetic expression.

Were growth genes kicked out of a mode quite favorable to young vegetative development into an expression better suited to late flowering and less favorable to young growth or root development? I don't know, but if repeated revegging results in problems this would be a likely mechanism. I can see the adaptive value of a surviving long flowering plant which decided to go an extra year and make a second batch of seeds but I'm not aware of this as a common life strategy in cannabis. Repeated revegging will be switching genes on and off repeatedly which never evolved to backtrack. Don't know if this will lead to problems in real life but the potential is there.

In this thread, many have described or shown how they use revegging/monstercropping to their advantage. I can't remember anyone saying that they've been repeatedly putting the same plant/clone line through this change generation after generation. Not saying that they aren't doing it, but I don't think the question in the title of this post has really been addressed here.

[Jmangenetics]

I read that a study done on motherplants and clones taken off them shows mutations in the dna of the clones that were not in the mother they dont know if the mutations were from the cloning process or other causes that was in maximum yield magazine a few months ago

[El Toker]

I know this can be done from personal experience in an emergency when a bunch of cuttings lined up for the next grow died on me. However, it's difficult, time consuming and is not at all necessary to produce huge flowering plants. A SCROG, LST or even topping will produce a large bushy plant with plenty of growing tips without having to wait weeks for the clones to root and reveg.

[ZENBEE]

Revegged budclones for mums and SOG by LST for her babies! The one and only way, in my oppinion

[3snowboards]

Cherry pie and fire OG

[3snowboards]

I took the buds of of the two largest cherry pies.
one bud was touching the top and was getting a little mushy.
I will take a picture when I do the pm misting.
The clones are under 1 2700k 13 watt LED and 1 13w 5000k 10 watt LED. 24hr light and 0 dark.

[3snowboards]

Got another 5000k light on the clones
Took out the 2700k
Now I have 27w of 5000k on them
The cherry pies were mostly De budded on day 3
The of clones were 3 weeks younger and still have their buds.
The on the leaves is growing away.
Left them uncovered for a couple hours today (day 8) and they didn't wilt. That's good.
No more spraying.

[Natural high]

Originally Posted by Crusader Rabbit

If you do this over and over with the same line I see a potential for possible degradation. After many generations of this the clones should still have the same DNA, but it could be expressing itself differently. I'm talking about epigenetic change. Flowering is a big transition point in the life cycle of a plant. Genes are activated which cause the plant to express it's growth in a new direction. For most plants they'll never go back. This is a one way trip.

In our artificial grow environment we can get plants to reveg, so obviously many genes which determine vegetative growth are back to their old ways. But if the plants are somehow permanently different now (monster crop growth pattern) then some genes have been activated to cause this new growth pattern and they aren't going back. Any clones thereafter will show this new genetic expression.

Excellent analysis. As someone with a biological science background and 35+ years growing experience I think I can add further to the discussion.

Epigenetic change refers to a situation when the modification of a genes expression is permanent and therefore inheritable.

In all organisms, genes are turned on and off in response to environmental change and the influence of hormones at the cellular level. A good example is when a woman becomes pregnant. Many major changes happen during the pregnancy, facilitated by hormones altering gene expression. When the pregnancy is complete, the changes in gene expression are reversed.

In cannabis, a reduction in day length (long dark period) alters gene expression via hormonal changes and this results in the flowering response. As cannabis is an annual, in nature this is usually the final expression of the plants morphology and concludes with senescence and death.

But if we expose the flowering cannabis plant to long day length we can reverse the changes in gene expression and force the plant back to the vegetative state, similar to the woman when the pregnancy is complete. The question is; is the reversion back to the vegetative state complete, or are there some genes which have remained in their modified state? If so, then this would result in a plant with a phenotypic expression which is different to its previous vegetative state, and any subsequent cuttings will also show this phenotype.

I have been cloning multiple strains for over 25 years and have regularly taken clones from plants well into flowering. I have also maintained a Jack Herer cut since the early 2000's. In my experience I have never had any phenotypic change in my cuttings despite not keeping a mother plant and always starting with new cuttings each grow cycle.

The so called monster cropping response is simply because when a plant is in flower the internode length is extremely short (within the bud) and so there is many nodes available to re-sprout when the clone reverts back to a vegetative state. Taking cuttings off this plant (once it is fully back to the vegetative state) will not carry this morphology across - the cuttings are invariably identical to the original mother prior to flowering. There has been anecdotal reports over the years of cutting lines changing over time - losing vigour, potency etc. but there has never been any concrete evidence of this happening and I certainly haven't observed it.

.

[3snowboards]

Good progress on the monster crop clones
2 of the cherry pie have shown roots thru the pellet at 8 days
And all 6 are showing signs of revegging

[3snowboards]

The Cherry pies are Slooowly returning to veg.
Day 20!!