Please Help Diagnose Sick Plant in Budding Cycle

Hey guys I fairly recently posted a thread concerning some problems with this same plant which is now exhibiting a slightly different problem.

Seems like whenever I have one problem licked, another one pops up. Is it like that for you guys? *sighs*

***SOIL COMPOSITION***
Soil is 6 parts compost, 2 parts EWC, 2 tbs gypsum, 2 tbs kelp meal, 2 tbs bone meal. Feeding Blackstrap Molasses and Alaska Bloom Fish Fertilizer.

Ph runoff is a little low, around 5.8. I've been trying to remedy that by adding a little baking soda to my water before feeding.

Temps range from 72-79

I'm 20 days into the bud cycle. Symptoms are pretty much what you see in the pictures. Fan leaves start to yellow with those rusty spots along the veins and they eventually curl up to a crispy brown. The buds don't seem to be affected. But if all my fan leaves continue to die there's not going to be much left by harvest.

I see yellowing like that early inflower and think, "that plant didn't receive enough N during the stretch"

Did you maintain your vegetative stage nute schedule after turning to 12/12

Id like to know as well. I had this last year, same time as you. I wrote mine off as PH laziness and not being percise with nutes + temp were high.

Some yellowing is normal in flower, but that does look like a problem of some kind. Makes for an easier trim job!
Have you checked your roots? I always ask this because people often don't check their roots due to the fact they are "underground".
Pull one plant from it's pot and examine the roots with a loupe and a bright light. Be patient and see if you see anything moving.
About the PH run off being low, I would add silica to your nute solution. This raises the PH, and strengthens stems and makes the leaves more disease resistant.
Silica is a must for me.

The ones you did not fill out can you please fill out? also can you get another picture without the HPS light on? Where at on the plant is this being affected? lower? middle?
Nitrogen problems is normal in flowering, you just don't want it to get out of hand and don't want it starting too early, otherwise small amounts are needed to suppliment.... but you got pH issues here, those spotting in the veins is a problem.... there should not be anything in those veins like that...... How often are you giving it all that? sounds like you are giving it too much if you use that often......
ARE YOU USING?

SOIL:


How long has this problem been going on?
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What brand Nutrient's are you using?
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
How old is your bulbs?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Are you using water from a water softener?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

Cappy said:

Did you maintain your vegetative stage nute schedule after turning to 12/12

Click to expand...

No. Was I supposed to? I just switched from the veg nutrient solution to the blooming nutrient solution. I figured there was enough nitrogen in the soil if the plant really needed it.

MynameStitch said:

The ones you did not fill out can you please fill out? also can you get another picture without the HPS light on? Where at on the plant is this being affected? lower? middle?
Nitrogen problems is normal in flowering, you just don't want it to get out of hand and don't want it starting too early, otherwise small amounts are needed to suppliment.... but you got pH issues here, those spotting in the veins is a problem.... there should not be anything in those veins like that...... How often are you giving it all that? sounds like you are giving it too much if you use that often......

Click to expand...

Okay, I'm going to try to answer all your questions. Sorry if I miss any. Read on....

Because My soil has most of the nutrients and macro nutrients the plant will need, I only use a small amount of fish fertilizer at every other watering. However, ever since I've been having this problem I've been feeding nothing but distilled water for the last several weeks.

As far as nitrogen is concerned- I thought the compost and EWC in the soil would take care of the plant throughout it's lifecycle, that's why I would find it extremely surprising if this WAS a nitrogen deficiency. But I'm not ruling it out. Just saying I'd be surprised.

The problem started at the large fan leaves at the bottom of the plant and it's rapidly progressing towards to top. Old fan leaves seem to be affected first. But it's slowly consuming the entire plant. Buds don't seem to be affected yet.

I'll upload some pictures per your request tomorrow, so please check back if you don't them immediately.


How long has this problem been going on?
...3+ weeks
What STRAIN are you growing?
...Unkown
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
...Seed
What is the age of your plants?
...58 days
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
...58 days
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
...same mixture
How Tall are the plants?
...20 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
...flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
... no topping
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
...2 gallon
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil
mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
...gardener's gold compost (6 parts soil 2 parts perlite)
What brand Nutrient's are you using?
...Alaska
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
...1000 PPM
How often are you feeding?
... every week
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
...22 days ago
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
...stopped using veg.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
...1000
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
...5.8
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
...every watering
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
...digital
How often are you watering?
... every 3-4 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
... yesterday
What size bulb are you using?
... 300 watts of CFLs
How old is your bulbs?
... under a year
What is the distance to the canopy?
... under a foot
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
...45%
What is the canopy temperature?
... 79 degrees
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
...79/72
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
...circulating system
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
...12/12 circulating system
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
...no
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
...moist to dry
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
...soft
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
...distilled
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
...no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
...no
Are plant's infected with pest's?
...no

looks mostly like lack of N, have that happen often to me as i tend to quite veg nutes too early. Usually if I mix 50% veg and 50% bloom nutes for a watering or two it goes away and greens up some. Might hurt quantity a little but i find a little starving of N in bloom makes for the smoothest smoke ever.I however dont have tons of experience, so if Im wrong someone please correct me.

Wrong mixture of nutrient you have tip burn to leaves which means nutrients are to strong & possibly to weak in some areas like Nitrogen & trace element Iron chelate . always use TDS pens to adjust dissolved salts(nutrients). lower is better than Higher. Hope the buds are well 4 u.

Here's a picture in natural light as requested. I can see it getting worse day by day. I'm going to be very bummed out if this lady doesn't make it as I'm doing a micro grow, so it's my only plant.

If you guys think it's nitrogen, do you think adding some veg nutrient to my bloom nutrient might help the issue, or should I lay off the nutrients all together. Remember I have bone meal, kelp meal and EWC in my compost.

No. Was I supposed to? I just switched from the veg nutrient solution to the blooming nutrient solution

Click to expand...

Yeah, during the stretch, the 10 - 14 days after switching to 12/12, you should maintain a veg schedule, gradually switching over to your flowering ferts.

normally when you switch to flowering you don't switch over to bloom ferts right away, this slows down nitrogen problems in early flowering a lot, but your problem looks to be pH related.......and salt build up, if your feeding every week give your plants some fresh water, flush some of your soil out first, because adding little nitrogen now is not going to fully fix the problem, if there is too much salt buildup it's going to lockout and this is just the start of the problem, you will have more if you don't get rid of the buildup. Youe nutrients are not complete either, using distilled water you have to have ALL nutrients complete, use tap water that has sat out for 24 hours, do a nice flush of a few galons of water and stop using distilled water for now........ anything in the veins like that signifies a problem.... black veins you have buildup and the pH is c ausing the problem, it's going up or down or not being stable for the plant..... but flush her out a bit, it will make the nitrogen problem a little worse, but the buildup has to be resolved and you can fix the nitrogen problem..... slow it down; in flowering you don't want it fully fixed, they need less nitrogen in flowering and you always want it to use nitrogen up in flowering anyways...... so flush her out with couple gallons of tap water that sat out..... stop using distilled water......always 2nd week of feeding use plain water to help flush out excess nutrients not being used by the plants.......

Thank you for helping me out guys. MynameStitch, I went ahead and flushed her with about three gallons of tap water.

***EDIT***
Just looking over this thread I noticed several comments stating that my nutrients aren't complete. So I have a question for you guys, what nutrients am I missing? I'd really like to know because if I am missing some stuff I want to add it. I was under the impression that with my compost and all the amendments plus the fish fertilizer that plant would be good to go.

Thanks.

add a little epsom salts thats about all it's missing right now, and be easy on it, because it could be locked out due to the pH issues you were having and the buildup of salts, using tap water as long as it's not soft.... low mineral content.... it should slow down a lot... but still need to add some magneisum next time you feed....... 1/4 teaspoon epsom salts per gallon of water.

Sounds good. Thanks again!

I know there's probably nothing more than can be done for this plant, but just wanted to give you guys a quick update on it's health and ask a few questions.

Just as I feared, this PH deficiency is approaching the bud sites as you can see from the picture.

Growth has slowed down considerably. I flushed her out 3 days ago and the pot is still heavy with water, normally it would have been light by now, so now there's also the possibility of root rot.

If this thing gets bad enough, I'm considering two options:

1. Early harvest. (Today is day 26 of flowering)

2. Do an emergency repot. This would involve pulling her out from the pot flushing the root system with fresh water and putting her back into some fresh soil.

Opinions/feedback?

Thanks in advance.

I would not do either one of those things. I would probably just mix up some new soil and pot up to 3 gallons. what is the ph going in? I dont know 60 days old in a 2 gallon but only 20 inches tall they may be rootbound and if not giving them a little extra room and some new mix will probably help out and stabilize things.

I like your idea, bobman. If I get a bigger pot, should I flush the root system before transplanting?

The PH going in is 7, coming out 5.5 and slowing creeping up.

no, i would not. let them dry out. if the new mix is moist i would not even water it. if the new mix is completely dry just mist it lightly. give them a good wet dry cycle from here on out. let us know what the roots looked like and whether it was root bound.

are u adjusting the nutes/water down to 7.

Yes, I add PH up to tap water to get it to 7 before watering.

Out of the tap, my water is 6.5.