[Mezz Mezzrow]

Relative to other solvents how good would 190 proof organic grape alcohol be for making Rick Simpson oil? I think it would be safer for the patient than isopropyl, but would it be as effective?

[Mezz Mezzrow]

Please advise.

[eloquentsoution]

make it and take it. pick the way that works best for you. i have made refluxed and quick wash ethanol, isopropy and denaturedl extractions. it is the clean up that is critical to remove the solvent. do search posts by graywolf for procedures to remove the solvent from your oil. sounds like you have made your choice. rock on.

[Gray Wolf]

190 proof made from grape would be a 95.5% azeotropic mixture and should work fine for extraction and refinement, but I would get an MSDS sheet on it. Doubly important if you are also using it for tinctures.

The basic principle behind using any solvent to extract with, is to remove it afterwards to safe and non detectable sensory levels.

If you are also planning to use it for tinctures however, you most certainly want to know what's in it, because of the higher remaining concentration.

Besides water, the 4.5% that isn't ethanol, could contain some methanol and ethyl acetate, depending on how they handled the heads on the refluxing still.

Methanol is a bi-product of pectin, which grapes are rich in, while 190 proof grain alcohol is distilled from beer, which is much lower in pectin's.

I would expect the MSDS to show low levels of both and what it does show should be kept in perspective, because any poison is always in the dosage. For instance, there is some methanol present in orange juice.

You might check out my QWET thread in the hash and resin forum, if you want to investigate further.
.

[zymos]

If it's food grade USP, it is probably going to have a lot less methanol than, say, wine.
I've purchased grain and cane, and the data sheets list <.001%. I'm willing to believe grape spirits could be higher- can't find a data sheet on it right now though.

And you aren't going to be drinking it, you are going to be evaporating it. I would always go with something food grade vs. something not made to be consumed at all (like isopropyl), all other factors being equal.

[Mezz Mezzrow]

Good to know. Thank you. Here is a blurb from the producer I am looking at:

Alchemical Solutions' 190 proof neutral organic grape alcohol is made from certified organic wine produced near Hopland California.

"Grape sugars are unique, and because of their unique actions, grape alcohol does a superior job of extracting medicinal plant constituents. In addition, organic grape alcohol is hypo-allergenic and guaranteed 100% free of genetic modification." - Gail Edwards, Herbalist

Our small scale, batch method of production allows us to maintain the utmost level of quality and attention to detail, while at the same time adhering to environmentally sound practices. Our Spirits are double distilled in stainless steel and double filtered to assure our customers the highest level of purity.

Our spirits are periodically tested by an independent lab to insure that they meet USP (United States Pharmacopeia) standards. Not all pure alcohol is pharmaceutical grade; only 190 proof and 200 proof pure ethanol, which meets or exceeds the stringent standards of the USP.

[zymos]

We buy 5 gal. cubes of organic EtOH every now and then to make tinctures (not cannabis- well, 99% not cannabis). Sometimes we'll do fairly large orders and sell off extra to students from my wife's herb classes.

I bought some from them a couple years ago, and was swayed from pharmo aaper, our usual supplier, cause they seemed so much groovier. That was a mistake.

It was a subpar product- not at all a clean distillation. They had some sob story about equipment problems, and didn't even ship my order for a couple of weeks after they had my money. I should have returned it, but by then we really needed it, and I convinced myself it wasn't that bad. But it was pretty nasty.

They've probably fixed their issues by now, but they'll never get my business again.

[Mezz Mezzrow]

Originally Posted by zymos

We buy 5 gal. cubes of organic EtOH every now and then to make tinctures (not cannabis- well, 99% not cannabis). Sometimes we'll do fairly large orders and sell off extra to students from my wife's herb classes.

I bought some from them a couple years ago, and was swayed from pharmo aaper, our usual supplier, cause they seemed so much groovier. That was a mistake.

It was a subpar product- not at all a clean distillation. They had some sob story about equipment problems, and didn't even ship my order for a couple of weeks after they had my money. I should have returned it, but by then we really needed it, and I convinced myself it wasn't that bad. But it was pretty nasty.

They've probably fixed their issues by now, but they'll never get my business again.

That's this Alchemical Solutions place? That sucks. I wonder if there are any other producers.

[zymos]

As I said (but mispelled) in my post above, Pharmco Aaper. They have a huge range of ethanols in various proofs, sources, organic or not, etc...
They are a bit of a pain to deal with at first- you'll have to set up an account. At times they have had minimum orders, or surcharges if you don't meet the minimum.

If Alchemical Solutions is still in business, they must have cleaned up their act by now...

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by zymos

We buy 5 gal. cubes of organic EtOH every now and then to make tinctures (not cannabis- well, 99% not cannabis). Sometimes we'll do fairly large orders and sell off extra to students from my wife's herb classes.

I bought some from them a couple years ago, and was swayed from pharmo aaper, our usual supplier, cause they seemed so much groovier. That was a mistake.

It was a subpar product- not at all a clean distillation. They had some sob story about equipment problems, and didn't even ship my order for a couple of weeks after they had my money. I should have returned it, but by then we really needed it, and I convinced myself it wasn't that bad. But it was pretty nasty.

They've probably fixed their issues by now, but they'll never get my business again.

As ZM notes above, there is reason to proceed cautiously if you do consider using them as a source.

There are a couple of common ways to end up with bad taste and smell running a compound refluxing still, so it may not have been equipment failure, but their learning curve learning how to use it.

For sure it says that their quality assurance program sucked at the time, if it made it out the door. I am betting that they are a small start up company and as they clearly weren't ISO 9000 compliant, aren't ISO 9000 certified.

You might voice your concerns for your application and ask for a small sample for testing purposes before buying a drum of it. You can have it tested at a lab or test it yourself for taste and smell. A simple bulb hydrometer will tell you whether it is actually 190 proof.

There are a couple of ways to end up with bad taste and smell running a compound still. The first is to not discard enough of the heads.

The first thing coming off the top of a reflux column, is the lighter constitutes like methanol and ethyl acetate. They both taste and smell bad, so normally these are discarded until the stream from the top of the column taste and smell clean.

A second source is if they were cooking the mash too long to get the last little bit, so as to pick up taste and odor from the bottoms. Some bottoms are good when making whiskey or brandy, but not 190 proof distilled spirits.