Originally Posted by Herborizer

Those four T5's are 30w each, making 120w. 330w lumigrow+ 120w T5 = 450w. 450w = 450 grams which is about 1 pound.

I hate to say it, but think it's always going to workout like this.

Just to confuse the calculations ,now work out SOTFs results for weights produced without using add-on lights.
Only then can we measure how good this light is.(tell em SOTF420 sent you) wink wink

[IwannatokeNbone]

i dont get the appeal of l.e.d's but for a small personal grow, why pay 1000-3000 for lights when u can pay 300? makes no sense im very sorry, u do a 400hps properly or vertical circular it n u got your pound, 400 watts is 400 watts, having a room thats a tad cooler for an extra 2500 hundred dollars seems pointless, and i dont like theads were peeps are trying to sell or hype up technology, comparisons are great though. if theese light werent the price of a used car or a vacation id get some.

[rives]

Originally Posted by IwannatokeNbone

i dont get the appeal of l.e.d's

From the number of times that you have posted this, it is indeed obvious that you don't get the appeal. New technology doesn't just spring into the marketplace fully mature - people have to be willing to support it and guide it along. I remember playing with fuel injection when all of the pundits were making your exact argument - when was the last time that you saw a car with a carburetor? I started playing with home computers when we were doing wire-wrap boards for an S100 bus, and software was something that you rolled your own. Same thing - most people thought that personal computers were never going to catch on.

I started using HID lighting to grow with almost 30 years ago, and frankly it bores the shit out of me. It is likely that when I get as far as I feel I can with LED's, I will try plasma, induction or something else - I love to tinker!

[woolybear]

Originally Posted by IwannatokeNbone

i dont get the appeal of l.e.d's but for a small personal grow, why pay 1000-3000 for lights when u can pay 300?

Kind of like what I overheard fishing some time ago. "Why pay $5 a gallon for gas, and thousands of dollars on a boat when you can fish from the shore for free?"

Well, in a boat u don't have to deal with all the assholes on the shore. Plus many more benefits.

The cost angle is not a good argument. Why spend $300 on hps when u can spend $30 on CFLs?

Answer: Its 2011 and people like options. People like the option of not setting their house on fire with hot hps bulbs.

Or something. I'm gonna get me 1gpw I tells ya

[SOTF420]

LED technology also makes it extremely easy to defeat FLIR detection as well, as most of you already know LED lights do not generate the massive amounts of IR that HPS does and most LED lights generate none unless they have the specific chips added which is not necessary to grow Cannabis with anyways. All IR basically is Infrared heat energy and this is a massive amount of wasted energy & light spectra in your grow that just heats up the environment and makes your room glow like a lantern in the dark to LEO running FLIR to detect growrooms. A large % of the light created by HPS is IR in fact and it is a long enough wavelength to be absorbed into the surrounding structure.

So it's not just the escaping heat that FLIR detects but the IR heat waves being absorbed into the walls and environment of poorly insulated growrooms which unfortunately most are unless maybe you have a room within a room or a high quality reflective grow tent like a growlab but even then the fact of the matter is IR is heat and that takes more energy to cool and this is a big trickle down effect on energy consumption to combat it. LED's are cooler and overall will save you money, any heat they generate is ambient heat from cooling heatsinks not the radiant IR heat that HID produces these are two very different things so let's be clear about that to those saying HID & LED generate the same anount of heat that is absolutely untrue. The LG 330 only gets warm to the touch and the light coming out underneath does not radiate IR heat energy so there is no radiated heat coming from the light heating up the plants underneath it or the growroom for that matter. I believe this may have something to do with the claims of LED grown buds being more potent and flavorful than HPS grown buds of the same strain because we all know heat damages and degrades THC as well as essential oils like Cannabis terpenoids for instance. It would make sense that flowers not subjected to IR light/heat would be more potent, and smell, & taste better.

The focused spectrums necessary to power photosynthesis and not having the problems regarding excess IR light being produced is another reason more smart growers are choosing LED for their updated growrooms with safer modern technology. You can grow just as much bud of the same or better quality with LED lighting in 2011 and beyond. The time has come, it's here and we are already doing it

[MMJcali]

if you have enough of ANY light, space and plant numbers, you could get a pound.

two years back I grew .8 pounds in a walk in closet with a TON of fluoros, but I had the plant numbers and the patience to make it happen. Was it worth it? hell no. a couple HPS would have been so much easier. but hey, anything is possible.

[smokefrogg]

i got to agree with rives about the tinkering aspect, it is a lot of fun if you've got a little bit of moneys to play with here and there

[IwannatokeNbone]

i came here to learn and thats what im doing, if the led compainies are useing this thread to advert n contribute to the icc i dont mean to take away its contribuiton i apologize, my feeling is that spending 2000 grand for a pound of erb is bad businesss, i dont need comments like im troling im just stating the obvious-2000 is alot more then 300 hundred to yeild a pound, led's make no sense........yet.


300 for an hps or 30 for a cfl, are u fools serious? no the comparison is thus 300 for a hps or 2000 for led for the same yeild, thats what u meant to say, im not hobbyiest im a realist, if u want to yeild 15 grams off a 6 dollar cfl up 2 u, or u could spend 175 on leds and yeild the same.

leds are def kick ass, they just arent worth it. and sorry folks but lumens per watt is were its at, and led's put out heat as well, they have to they arent that efficient just spectrum tailored.

new 1000hps bulbs are what 40 bucks once a year, so after my ''extra fans ill need'' and my new bulb once a year at 40 bucks i guess after say 20 years of new bulbs ill be at a total cost thats still 500 dollars cheaper then were u guys are in cost on day one with your l.e.d set up ?? thats 480 in bulbs every ten years fellas, a little sobriety please.

1 pound in led cost what 2000?

2 pounds=4000?

hps=300 for one pound
hps=600 for two pounds
etc...... see were this is going folks?

[SOTF420]

Sorry bro your argument is all based around money and cost. LED's have a much longer lifespan than HID ballasts and bulbs not to mention the added safety factors and stealth aspects of them regarding FLIR. For a large commercial greenhouse growing tomatoes yes a bunch of HID may be the cheapest way to go right now but for a home grower who wants the least fire risk & LEO detection risk as well as far less energy consumption in the overall usage equation the LED is very cost efficient and they will pay for themselves in very short order not to mention quality is very good and in my honest opinion LED grown herb is better than HID grown buds but your bud of course is going to be limited by grower ability and genetic potential. Long story short, the components cost alot of money that go into high quality LED lights and yes the cost will come down over time as production goes up and prices have already come down from a few years ago. This does not mean it's not a viable technology because to some people the cost & price is irrelevant if it works.

The problem with LED is alot of bullshit manufacturers gave the whole concept a bad name by pushing outrageous yield & comparison claims when the technology was first rolling out to the Cannabis growing market and it's hard to undo that but quality lights are here now and semi-affordable as well. The thing I am wondering is if someone is not interested in LED's and does not condone them or support the technology why bother posting in a thread about them? When you do that people can't help but assume you are trolling no offense. It's like someone going in the tokers den in a thread about getting high and telling people not to smoke herb you just won't be welcomed with open arms in that scenario.

At this point really the only argument left from the LED bashers is the price point on the technology but innovation costs money, new cars cost money, a rolex costs money. If you don't mind telling time with a plastic casio watch from walmart then by all means have at it but don't knock those who are exploring new technology and don't mind paying for it. As for the lumens per watt comment, lumens are not what is important the spectrum is (PAR light) most of the light produced by an HPS bulb a plant cannot even process or use to power photosynthesis which is where spectrum tailored LED comes in and is not only more efficient but as a result can also yield more per watt of energy because that power is going to produce a useful spectrum not wasted heat energy the plant does not need. Much love, keep it peace.

[IwannatokeNbone]

i can buy a new hps set up every few years and its still ten times cheaper, again if u want to spend 2000 for a pound thats up to, and if u want two pounds n want to spend 4000k for it then fine, lets stop talking about the obvious pluses, like a spectrum of blue n red light, this is old news. we get it are question is why the extra 1700 dollar cost? this is great an all its just that it comes with a product that isnt ready for the market yet, no fool is gonna spend 2000 over 300 dollars for the same results.

why does a fancy lite bright toy type light set up that kids in the 80s played with have such a high price tag? making blue n red sort of weak bulbs is uber tough? much like some of theese little pre made grow cabs out of metal that go for 3500$ online, some prices are just way off.