[Natural high]

Originally Posted by riddly

YES IT IS LIKE THAT

Same clone line for 15+ years and I have seen no change whatsoever, and this is with taking new cuttings every grow.

Cheers

[Bob Green]

Hundreds of those Gypsie Thai packs where sold. I am willing to bet that someone will do a decent job of reproducing it. Hardest part will be finding desirable and stable males and top notch selected females to start refining the line.

But with a thread like this I am sure the sativa heads took note and acted accordingly.

[riddly]

Originally Posted by Natural high

Same clone line for 15+ years and I have seen no change whatsoever, and this is with taking new cuttings every grow.

Cheers

if you take a cutting from a mother plant that looks robust and vigorous and then every 3 years you repeat the procedure (till you see that the mother doesn't start showing anomalies, like signs of degeneration) then you're safe. even more so the way you do it, that is, taking new cuttings every grow (from the mother not the clones)

If the entire open line with all its genes is conserved/preserved, that is, with the maximum number of possible individuals/specimens there will be no degeneration.

It can lose vigor and degenerate in some cases, when it is not given the means and the optimal conditions, light, water, air, earth.

To avoid degeneration you can clone the mother and continue with the cuttings and "sacrifice" the mother. I would do it after about 3 years. it also depends on how I see it (the mother), and its genetics also do have their influence, they do play their part in this...

cheers

[riddly]

Originally Posted by Bob Green

Hundreds of those Gypsie Thai packs where sold. I am willing to bet that someone will do a decent job of reproducing it. Hardest part will be finding desirable and stable males and top notch selected females to start refining the line.

But with a thread like this I am sure the sativa heads took note and acted accordingly.

Hardest thing (for me) is the guys from Seedboutique or Gypsny Nirvana to reply. Been trying to talk to them mfor the past year or so through here and through seedboutique to no avail....

if this is how their customer service work, there's much to improve...
sent gypsy nirvana couple of messages from time to time but never a reply. I'm wary that if i place an order it will never be acknoledged and sent out ...

[Natural high]

Originally Posted by riddly

if you take a cutting from a mother plant that looks robust and vigorous and then every 3 years you repeat the procedure (till you see that the mother doesn't start showing anomalies, like signs of degeneration) then you're safe. even more so the way you do it, that is, taking new cuttings every grow (from the mother not the clones)

If the entire open line with all its genes is conserved/preserved, that is, with the maximum number of possible individuals/specimens there will be no degeneration.

It can lose vigor and degenerate in some cases, when it is not given the means and the optimal conditions, light, water, air, earth.

To avoid degeneration you can clone the mother and continue with the cuttings and "sacrifice" the mother. I would do it after about 3 years. it also depends on how I see it (the mother), and its genetics also do have their influence, they do play their part in this...

cheers

Hey Riddly. You might have misunderstood what I actually do. I have never kept a mother plant, I just take new cuttings off the plant I'm flowering when the plant is turned to 12/12 or within about 6 days after.

As for degeneration of clone lines, the genetic code cannot change with vegetative reproduction. What can possibly happen in rare cases is an incomplete switching of genes from on to off to back on again, or vice versa. For example, a cutting taken in full flower may in some cases never come back fully to a vegetative state and continue to seem in a pre-flowering state even under long light hours.

There have been many famous clone only strains in circulation for many years and they seem to be still doing their thing in many different hands and under widely variable conditions.

Cheers

[Donald Mallard]

Originally Posted by bushweed

This raises an interesting question for me. Does the potency of clones deteriorate over time?

If so, this would mean that the job of the breeder doesn't end with finding a grail line and resting on his laurels, but maintaing and reinvigorating that line as well. Hard work!

nope , no change ,
would be pointless to keep them if they degenerated in a short period of time ,
its the same thing as taking a cutting from any other plant ,
all the traits of the mother are present ...
its the same plant ....

ive heard some crazy stoner stories ,
but i can tell you they are not accurate ,
they are simply crazy stoner stories ..

[Raho]

Originally Posted by Donald Mallard

nope , no change ,
would be pointless to keep them if they degenerated in a short period of time ,
its the same thing as taking a cutting from any other plant ,
all the traits of the mother are present ...
its the same plant ....

ive heard some crazy stoner stories ,
but i can tell you they are not accurate ,
they are simply crazy stoner stories ..

All the information required to reproduce the exact plant is preserved in the DNA, a copy of which is stored in every cell of the plant.
The idea that this genetic code is fragile and volatile is fueled by lack of knowledge of basic genetics and biology.

People see plants behave differently over time and are quick to attribute any difference to "genetic drift" or "mutation." These are rare, sexy occurrences in nature.
Much more interesting to blame "genetic drift" that the much more logical and reasonable assumption that some combination of different environmental variables has impacted the way the plant grows.
Even when mistreated and grown poorly for generations, a cutting of the same stock nursed back to health can produce growth and flowers/resin identical to the original.
Everything a cutting needs to do it is stored throughout the plant.

When a person gets the flu or some other illness, you don't assume that the cause of the symptoms is a mutation or change in the persons DNA. Plants are the same.

Wally nails it here. Crazy stoner stories.

People would be wise to stop taking stoner science at face value and spend 3 minutes on the internet to read a page or two of basic biology/agricultural science outside of cannabis.
This is all well documented researched stuff.

BTW: I had a pack of GN thai stick seeds and they were normal sized beans, not especially large at all.

[Thcvhunter]

Yup.

Sam has explained how his 30-yr old cuts have not changed in any way, and we all know how much lab testig he's done over those 30 years.

I got the 30(40?)-yrs old clone of Gooey mom.
Amazing plant.

One big thing that will affect a clone is how old you let the parent get before cloning.
Seems like everyone cuts around 30-60 days.
I never cut less than 100 days and I really prefer to do it 500 days (1.5+ years).
I think that that one factor is what has made my progeny so outstanding. Rogue River Valley (S. Oregon) said that in the 25 yrs of growing, theyve never seen vigor like my lines have.