[Norkali]

Calling all sparkies!

I have a couple of questions if you wouldn't mind...

I am currently using two 600w lights on two separate timers that are on two separate breakers/fuses, in an effort to minimize overloading anything. Here is my problem: the lights each use those cheap-o $15 timers that you get at the hydro shop - you know, the ones that always melt/brown at the plugs after time?

I want to upgrade to an/(two?) Intermatic T-101(s), but I am very concerned and want to be cautious when it comes to the electricity portion of growing, especially wiring things, but I'm digressing - here's my question: Does the Intermatic have to be wired directly into the circuit, or does a power cord (three prong, into-120v outlet type - sorry if my terminology is wrong...) get wired into it?

To clarify, when I say 'power cord' I mean one of these:



If so, would anybody to nice enough to explain to me how to utilize one of the 'cheap-o' times in conjunction with the Intermatic like I see some doing? (I know that I've read some amazing sparky threads in here, but please forgive me...lol) I suppose that also requires asking how I can manage two control the two lights while still on the separate circuits - or do I need separate Intermatics? I really hope that makes sense...

Second, GFCI. The current spot unfortunately does not have grounded outlets, and has fuse-style breakers (...I know,) - sorry if this is a dumb or obvious question, but would GFCI outlets provide me any benefit? As I understand it, there needs to be a ground for "Ground FaultCI" - but just want to make sure that I'm not overlooking something that could help safety-wise....so, are/is there anything that I'm not understanding about GFCI outlets that would make them useful in the type of spot that I am in?

Big thanks beforehand to anybody who responds...

[rives]

T-101's would normally be hard-wired, but there is no reason that they couldn't be set up on a cord. A single T-101 doesn't lend itself to switching two different circuits - there is only one set of contacts. You could drive a relay with those contacts and get more circuits, but by the time you got a relay in a can you would probably exceed the cost of another T-101. I don't understand your question regarding the use of the T-101 in conjunction with the cheap timer.

As you suspected, a GFCI needs a ground in order to work properly. There is nothing wrong with fuses, they can actually be sized to the load better than a breaker can, but you really should check into updating the wiring with grounding.

[h.h.]

GFCI's sense ground faults. They sense a difference in amperage between the grounded neutral and the positive lines. If one side is going to ground, a loose wire touching something, it will sense a 6 mA difference and trip. It does not need a grounding wire to work.
A grounded neutral is just your neutral wire that is grounded at the transformer.
A grounding wire is one that will ground when there is a fault.
A ground fault is when either the positive or the negative is compromised.
A short circuit is when the 2 touch.
You should put in a grounding wire. It can be ran separate, but should be attached to all metal boxes lamps, etc. You're messing with electricity and water and are taking the right step with the GFCI. Usually water pipes can make a good ground if they are metal and long enough. All that should be online. You can also drive a ground rod or use concrete encased rebar. It should be the same size as your original wiring. Probably 12 gauge. I wouldn't use anything smaller than 12 anyway.
Another thing to consider is an arc fault breaker. They sense an arc between the two lines and are good fire protection. Current code requires them in all habitable rooms.
Buy a good quality, name brand GFCI, or it will be forever tripping.

[rives]

Originally Posted by h.h.

If one side is going to ground, a loose wire touching something, it will sense a 6 mA difference and trip. It does not need a grounding wire to work.

This is partially correct. A GFCI doesn't require a ground to work, but it is not going to function properly in an ungrounded system. The results of it's usage under these conditions will be, at best, unpredictable. If there is no ground, there is no alternate path for the current to take, so the GFCI would be unable to sense any difference between the outbound and return current. It would be similar to the older delta distribution systems - one hot leg can be happily grounded and everything works just fine until a second leg goes to ground. The ground provides a low-resistance return path both to allow the ground fault to pull enough current to trip the protection as well as keeping the current from flowing through a higher resistance (your body).

[h.h.]

I hear rumors he's installing a ground anyway...Thanks for the clarification.

[Marquis de Sod]

rives, you need to seriously stop giving electrical advice.
a GFI outlet is a legal outlet to install on any UNGROUNDED CKT. ALONG WITH AN UNGROUNDED TWO PRONG OUTLET.

IT DOES NOT REQ A GROUND TO OPERATE.

[rives]

Originally Posted by Marquis de Sod

rives, you need to seriously stop giving electrical advice.
a GFI outlet is a legal outlet to install on any UNGROUNDED CKT. ALONG WITH AN UNGROUNDED TWO PRONG OUTLET.

IT DOES NOT REQ A GROUND TO OPERATE.

Legality aside, a GFCI functionally requires an alternate path for the ground fault current to take so that it can detect a difference between what is being measured on the hot leg vs the neutral. According to your scenario, we would just let the ungrounded but hot appliance sit there waiting for someone to get between it's case and ground, and then have a race to see if it trips before they fry. Thanks, but I'd rather have a ground attached so that it functions immediately. I think that most consumers expect a GFCI to trip as soon as a ground fault occurs, not when their body becomes the grounding conductor.

I would suggest that you put down the code book, which you appear to have a limited understanding of, and get some practical experience.

[Norkali]

Thank you very much guys. One more question - are T5 Flouro's inductive or resistive? (AKA - should I buy a third T101 for ~700w of T5's?) Thanks again!

[rives]

Without knowing how the rest of the circuit is set up and the loads on it, I don't know if the circuit will handle the additional light, but the T101 is not going to be the limiting factor. You could easily run both your 600's and the T5's off of one timer.

[Norkali]

Cool - the only thing is that the flouro's are for veg and the 600's are for flowering - and the two 600's are on separate circuits; but I really don't have a problem spending extra money to avoid risking overloading any circuits.