[mad librettist]

other than people saying so, how did protekt ever get the pass as an emulsifier.

my tests indicate earlier and more creaming than with any other option commonly used.

use it for the silicon, but please do yourselves a favor and use anything else to emulsify your neem.

NM

[guest2012y]

Originally Posted by CC_2U

CC1

Okay - fair enough. Let me define what I am calling an effective surfactant: An agent that when added to water will cause foaming in an amount necessary to cause the carrying liquid to stick to the leaves and branches for a period necessary to allow the carrying agent to be absorbed by the leaves"

If one uses Yucca extract then the amount of 'foaming' will cause the water to foam up not unlike flocking a Christmas tree. The more that you shake the sprayer the more foaming action you can achieve. Aloe vera has lower saponins resulting in less foaming action. Alfalfa tea has even less and it produces very little foaming action in this application. The foaming aspect in brewing AACT is well known and has been discussed on several threads.

Just do NOT ever add Yucca extract or aloe vera to the Pro-TeKt & neem mix as it will turn into a gel that you cannot break apart. Add whatever organic surfactant you're using after you've completed the initial mixing.

It's a mess to deal with.

CC

I was adding the 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water then mixing the aloe and yucca in. When I was using a lot more protekt I got the clumps bad...and then remembered you saying that.

I was using protekt as a surfactant in PM sprays because it's mild. In fact I spray protekt often as a PM deterant.

CC1

I add liquid silica to every reservoir of water, foliar sprays, etc. for the same reasons that you do - the Powdery Mildew deal.

Spurr and others have posted several links about the use of silica in general and horticultural environments as well.

CC

[mad librettist]

well mine is gonna be used until the bottle is done, I'll let you know if I have any ill effect from quitting.

I will be using your rice trick to replace the silicon


btw have you noticed what protekt does to squashes? in that case, I say the results are dramatically cool

[heady blunts]

yea i'll admit i use dutch gold silica. i got a tester bottle as a freebie the first time i walked into a hydro shop. i think it will last me forever.

after that, the rice trick does sound promising. i'm also keeping an eye out for horsetail.

[big_daddy]

Originally Posted by Capt.Cheeze1

I used a brand that had citric acid and potassium sorbate. I didn't read the label because It said "organic" and I got it at Whole Foods....just goes to show. I didn't have any side effects,only positive results. Now I make my own from aloe leaves you can buy at Mexican grocery stores.

Here's a useful pdf file that explains the various benefits derived from the many different compounds in aloe vera. Potassium sorbate is a compound in aloe vera and not an additive. [page 1602/table 1].

I've had the leaves reaching for the lights as you've described and it also works for me as a stand alone rooting compound.

It would be interesting to see one the microscope guys use aloe vera (mannan) for a carb source in an AACT to see how the microbe counts compare to other sources. (if they haven't already)

cheers

b_d

[Corpsey]

Originally Posted by big_daddy

Here's a useful pdf file that explains the various benefits derived from the many different compounds in aloe vera. Potassium sorbate is a compound in aloe vera and not an additive. [page 1602/table 1].

the one i have (https://www.lilyofthedesert.com/our_p...-vera-juice/18) has Potassium sorbate(mold inhibitor) listed in other ingredients, and on the bottle it says 99% organic ingredients.

seems strange they would list it in other ingredients. I don't doubt the compound being in aloe, but maybe they added more to benefit from the ability to prevent mold?

[h.h.]

I use silica mainly to deal with the heat. It stiffens up the plant, not sure how that matters but it does seem to help in the heat. I'd consider dropping it otherwise.
Aloe, I've been using around a month. Can't say I've seen a difference. I didn't when I used it before. It's got saponins...Seems there's inhibitory and stimulatory. Some are steroidal. Yucca is steroidal. I don't see aloe listed as such. As far as helping stuff stick, Bronners may be cheapest and most effective. Steroidal saponins seem to hold some promise in increasing plant yield. Having used both yucca and aloe, aloe I'll keep for my hands.
It begs the question as to how safe they may be. The
Indians that were relocated on the Mojave incorporated yucca into their diet and according to reports outgrew their parentage. I doubt much carries through into the final product in our case.
Aqve is said to also contain lots of steroidal saponins.
Was looking at a large pile of a few hundred pounds that was pulled a few months back
Piss ants are crawling about suggesting sugar content. The root were still coated with what I guess to be myco incrustation. While the sap is burning with acidity and not naturally sweet, it has to be dumping sugar into the soil. Need to go back and get some from the middle, hopefully nicely fermented. Might have to taste it first.

yourcorpse

I'll share with you what I learned from the 'marketing dude' at Improve USA, Inc. who claimed that they're a 'major player' in the aloe vera powdered extract.

Aloe vera contains high levels of "benzoic acid" which is the base of 'Sodium Benzoate' and it's this specific compound (benzoic acid) that has to be dealt with almost immediately once the juice/gel is extracted - like < 20 minutes.

Agents are added to the mix which converts (whatever the correct term is among chemists) the benzoic acid to Sodium Benzoate. This is the standard procedure.

According to 'the dude' Sodium Benzoate prevents mold - i.e. a fungicide.

Citric acid and/or Potassium sorbate is added to arrest and stop the natural fermentation process.

So...................

This is why you'll find 'organic' versions of aloe vera with Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid and Potassium Sorbate on the label.

By reading you can eliminate up to 2 of these agents - specifically Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate by using a relatively new product line from Lily of The Desert that they call "Preservative-Free Aloe Vera Juice" which it isn't - it contains Citric Acid. Eh?

But that's an acid produced by plants for assimilating Phosphorus so I can give that a pass - YMMV.

There is a version of aloe vera that is completely free from any and all preservatives or fungicides and that is products like the ones from Improve USA, Inc. These type of products are manufactured for the food, health and beauty aids, etc. manufacturing sectors.

Their process is once the gel is extracted it's immediately dried and then meshed and packed - again according to 'the dude'

This version comes in 3 versions - 50XX, 100XX and 200XX and what those numbers mean is that if you took 1 gram of the 50XX product and added 49 grams of water you'd end up with 50 grams of pure aloe vera gel.

Same deal with the 100XX and the 200XX versions - 1 gram of 200XX mixed with 199 grams of water = 200 grams of pure, preservative-free aloe vera extract. This is the product that I'm using along with the liquid product from Lily of The Desert.

HTH

CC