[cyat]

It has been said that organic nute solutions cannot be read accurately with an e.c.-ppm meter. Canna says the equipment needed to do that costs a ton of money.

I have gotten e.c readings up to 1.2 ( 600 ppms) on my homemade guano tea which was thick, strong and unfiltered, a ton of gauno was used even a whole quart of e.j. guano too.anyway..........

A guy I know uses the guano co. supertea @ 2.5 cups per 30 gal of tap plus some enzymes, in flower he adds some pk boost. his quality was insane ( in sunshine #3 , fed nutes everytime ) he keeps this in his res with a stone for up to two weeks with no funk. The stuff stinks but the empty half of the bottle has no gunk-biofilm, its clean. makes me think this could work an rdwc system running a biofilter or maybe without.............imagine one biofiltered res running garden of rdwc soil-coco-wicks-ebbflo-everything from one res.

so...... I mixed up a batch at his 2.5 cups per 30 gal plus foxfarm microbes which have some npk and ph down ec is at .6-.7, thats about 350 ppm. I doubled the supertea and it still read the same. Now this guy vegges with just that and sunshine mix has no nutes..... got me thinkin something is not being measured that is in there, the organics that are non salt.

I have done aquaponics with healthy plants at 400 ppm.

here's a qoute from murray hallam a.p. guru:
Electrical Conductivity is a good way to measure the nutrient concentration in your Aquaponics System. That is a measure of the water borne nutrients available to the plants. It should be noted that it is not a complete measurement of nutrient in an Aquaponics System, as there are organic nutrients present that an EC meter will not measure. However, over time, the overall measurement is a very useful one.

Conductivity helps you to determine if you are getting the balance between the fish food given or placed in the system, to plant growth.

The range of Electrical Conductivity can be as low as 0.2 and as high as 2.0
In my newest system the reading is 0.5 and is increasing weekly as the system matures and the fish grow.

In another of my Aquaponics Systems that has 126 Sleepy Cod, the EC reading is 1.8. This is a very mature system. The high reading and the maturity of the system indicates to me that I can easily add another grow bed or two.

The same number of fish and feeding regime will easily support more grow beds and produce more vegetables. The EC reading would gradually drift down and find a new level after the grow beds are added and planted out.

Keep in mind that not all the nutrients present in an Aquaponics System will be measured by an EC meter. As an example of that, in the newer system (Patio Duo) that has an EC reading of 0.5, that system is enjoying good plant growth. This is evidence that there are organic nutrients present in an Aquaponics System. If we were relying solely on added nutrients such as commonly available hydroponic nutrients, plants just would not be doing very well at all with an EC reading of 0.5
Obviously this Aquaponics System will continue to improve over time and be even better.

You should not attempt to drastically correct low EC readings in your Aquaponics System by adding non organic nutrients. Slow and steady is the way. A good variety of fish food is required for the system to be well balanced in nutrients. Make sure your fish are happy and the rest will take care of itself.

As your system matures, if your EC readings are remaining low, you possibly have too many plants or two few fish. Aquaponics is all about balance.

What to feed your fish is the subject of another discussion.

Overall, a good quality EC meter is a valuable tool in maintaining a good Aquaponics system.


any thoughts are welcome..... cyat

[mg75]

never did aquaponics...

imo, salts in water (such as sea-90 sea salt) or perhaps salts produced by fish food/waste in aquaponics are not to be understood as chemical salts present in hydroponic nutrients. i have used 2000 ppm of sea salt + other nutrients in coco with no problems (EC was 3.8+). now, i understand it is not aquaponics, but organic food (even in water) will not equate to non-organic "chemical" nutrients in its EC reading. I don't think that modern EC meters are capable of measuring all of the nutrients in organic plant food (especially if the food is part of the medium). i suspect that if you have a meter constantly measuring the water EC, it will continually vary in reading as fish/plants/water are a part of the eco-system (water food web?).
so basically, i think that if you follow the fish store (or books) recommendation on how to keep healthy water and fish... your plants will be healthy in return. aquarium/fish stores sell all kinds of water conditioners and EC meters... so yes i agree a quality EC meter will help keep the water and fish happy... just try not to equate it to measuring bottled nutrients in R.O. water.

[habeeb]

I have some thoughts..

EC is only good for reading starting levels ( starting charge of nutes to the water ), then you have a base to work with. so you feed first amount ( whatever you think ) then measure EC and then observe the plant and next water change / feed adjust from what you saw,

key here is consistent measurements, don't just toss in, be very precise about how much you add and take good notes to what you added, how much and what the EC was


as a sum, EC is only good if you stick tot he same nutes every watering, and only check EC in the beginning, to me, that's the best way of using a EC at all.

this is just off the top of my head though, never did any of this, I am assuming, and this is what I would do if I was doing it


also, sounds to me, I would attempt to source some bio sevia or try and make some bio thrive work, adding this and that is calling for quality control disaster. bottles are formulated and precise, and with accurate measurements of the bottle you can maintain the highest control over just adding in different ingredients.. I would leave that to someone formulating a new product.. I mean we are hobbyist here, not scientists making a new nutrient formula.. but do as you see fit, I would jsut assume attempting organic hydro is hard enough, so why complicate it..


I'm only doing organic hydro is I can get some bio sevia which it looks like the hard part is shipping costs.. I have talked to GH and they said basically bio thive is not to well in hydro, they said it could be done, but doesn't work like bio sevia and really they only recommend bio thrive in soil, they don't recommend it in hydro really.... short answer

[cyat]

Hey guys thanks for your thoughts, I think we are all talking about the same thing but still different.its all good lets see where it goes.
mg75 you are talking about feeding high e.c I'm talking about low ec measurements with organic liquid nutes actually being stronger than they seem.
I used the aquaponics quote only to illustrate a point. I'm not running a.p at the moment.
a.p is organic hydro and murrarys techniques are more suited to cannabis than the uvi model.
I'm really trying to discuss organic bottled nutes or homemade liquids and theyre e.c or strength and how it affects the plants. The nutes I'm interested in is the guano co. supertea and budswell. I know people use them as supplements, but I'm talking as a base nute. Using it in hydro is just me thinking outloud, but I know a guy who grows dank ass healthy plants using just supertea at 2.5 cups per 30 gal of tap. His plants are super nice and it bubbles in his res for up to 2 weeks without turning nasty or gunky. I'm blown away he can do that in a soil with no nutes itself. when I mixed his recipe it came out to about 350 ppm.

habeeb thanks for your thoughts, I like what your sayin about measuring precise and observing, I agree.

by the way I dont care about the ec just curious how it works and how the unmeasurable ingredients work and benefit the plant and soil/water.

also, sounds to me, I would attempt to source some bio sevia or try and make some bio thrive work, adding this and that is calling for quality control disaster- gh cannot sell biosevia in the us, its their agreement with ghe. I wish I could get that, I'm in the same boat as you. general organics imho has too much sugar to work in straight hydro, it rocks in coco, Ive ran the whole line.If you bubble it it turns into a frothing tea, it would suck in hydro. as far as adding this and that, not sure what you mean, any organic hydro is an experiment cuz its pretty uncharted territory, but I'm actually talkin about precise measurements from a bottled organic nute ( supertea) which is used by a friend with amazing results.

habeeb not sure what you mean by this - but do as you see fit, I would jsut assume attempting organic hydro is hard enough, so why complicate it..

how am I complicating anything? what is complicated about adding 2.5 cups of liquid nutes to a trash can filled with water? just because using the supertea like this is new to you, dont write it off yet. some of the stuff I was talking about is just me getting creative like one res tying together different seemingly disseparate growing techniques. Its not a totally original idea, and people are already doin in different ways.
have fun let me know if you can get the biosevia

[habeeb]

hey cyat,

sorry if I got confusing or anything. I sometimes have people tell me, what the hell are you saying, that was half my childhood, and have tried working on explanation..

yeah in "organics" I've always seen EC when measured, alot lower then I know the solution is at. that is because meters are to pick up salts / electrical charge. organics don't work this way, and these meters were built to work with salt nutes, never to use them in any sort of fashion for organic work..

I have heard this on the bio thrive, it gets foamy. I have also heard someone say to use a wetting agent to calm it down. does it work? I don't know never tried it as that has what has been suggested to me to calm down foam..

I have tried bio canna in the past but seems that its not a good candidate, foam / smell / bio film. this was not used with a bio filter so I don't know if it would change, but I would look for the thinnest liquid nute if wanting to do organic


for your friend, that sounds good. but was it straight peat? as any other brand has stuff added, lime , wetting agents, starter charge.. and the fact its peat, it also is food for microbes to munch, and is a great haven for microbe population breeding. I'm not sure I could even compare peat to hydro at this point as I have worked with peat plenty to say talking peat and hydro is very different, even talking peat and coco is very different that I would not combine talks with peat in with coco.... if it will work in hydro as a stand alone or a base... once again I don't know, I cannot say. I guess the real test would be to try it out and let us know your results, or how its working and what needs tweaking here or there


i didn't mean you were complicating anything. I was more saying if you need to add this or that if the ratios or micros are off, and you are seeing def's.. more that a bottle is formulated with micros and correct ratios of NPK's. take no offense though I was not saying that the guano was complicating things, I mean if later down the road sort of situation were to happen....





when I run organic hydro, I plan two systems with different methods, so hopefully my learning can go up 2 fold. so if one craps out or I start over, I still have another running. that's my thoughts anyways

the bio sevia should be getting ordered as we speak but i will not speak yet... I also am trying to get someone in the UK to ship me some, so I have double methods of trying to obtain this stuff.... man is it hard if you don't like in the UK.. not sure why as stuff is exported everyday in every country



I would love to see a thread in the organic section if you try the guano, so we can all learn, as you know, there is not much good info here for us

[mg75]

i wonder if a (very) fast re-circulating hydro system will eliminate the potential issues a slow one will have. perhaps one of those drain-pipe systems that heath built? no air stones. just very fast moving and medium less. or bigger drip line (1/2 inch or more).

[LittleAmsterdam]

An EC or PPM meter reads the total dissolved in solution including Ca, Mg, other minerals, and salts that are considered electrical conductive.

Organics are not electrical conductive there for unable to read with a PPM meter.

If your PPM meter is showing a value it's the minerals from your tap water and the guano tea.

[Sgt.Stedenko]

This thread is confusing as fuck.

So if I brew a tea, there will be nitrates, nitrites, phospates, K, Ca and Mg ions and some organic mystery stuff in there that an EC meter cant read. What pray tell is this mystery substance? If you're talking about benificial bacteria, go get a petri dish and autoclave. EC meters weren't designed for that

[LittleAmsterdam]

Organics can be confusing as fuck, because you can't measure the results with a PPM or EC meter.

If I make brew a tea with guano, kelp meal, greensand, & molasses it could only show 450-500ppm on the meter, but some STRONG SHIT depending on how much guano, kelp, or greensand I used