[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by mrsmarybrown

Just moving from small open blasting to a large closed loop system and would greatly appreciate some advise. I'm trying to determine if I can safely set up a closed loop extraction system (Dabzpro's Dominator with a 4"x72" material chamber, approx 8 lbs of material per run) in my detached garage. The shop is 12'x25'x8' ceilings. I was planning on dividing off an area of 8'x8' in the back corner for the extraction operation. There would be a 8"centrifugal duct fan mounted outside the space exhausting air from floor level to outside the building, with the rooms inlet air coming from the opposite wall at ceiling height, there would be a large portable plastic floor fan (a standard household box fan) blowing directly at the extractor to dilute and mix the air.

The only explosion source in the building would be a chest freezer set up in the other part of the garage on a 2' raised platform. This freezer would be full of freezing water and plumbed to the cooling reservoir of the extractors reclaim tank, exchanging cold water through the use of a water pump and gravity fed return. Would this be safe??

Thanks for any feed back, your time, and consideration!

The fire marshal would be unlikely to approve it in a residence, or adjacent to a residence, even with two hour fire rated walls.

The Dabzpro's Dominator lower end does not appear to be an ASME rated container and does appear to hold a significant amount of butane. How much butane do they say it takes to process 8 lbs of material?

As far as a floor level exhaust, with makeup from the opposing wall, that would work. You can also use a push/pull air knife exhaust.

Give some thought as to where the butane ends up, should you have a catastrophic release, and make sure you use an explosion proof fan on a pull system.

What goes if it does blow?

An excellent book on ventilation design, is Industrial Ventilation, a manual of recommended practices, by the American Conference of Governmental Hygienists.

I have an ancient 17th addition from 1982, so I won't try to pass on page numbers, but the book is the bible for ventilation design.

[Gray Wolf]

Here is part of what the fire marshal will be considering, when reviewing a permit request and location suitability.

Consider it from his perspective, of being paid to protect people and property, including his own crews whom have to respond.

Code No Code Name
NFPA 1 Fire Code
NFPA 3 Recommended Practice for Commissioning of Fire Protection and Life Safety Systems
NFPA 4 Standard for Integrated Fire Protection and Life Safety System Testing
NFPA 10 Standard for Portable Fire Extinguishers
NFPA 12 Standard on Carbon Dioxide Extinguishing Systems
NFPA 12A Standard on Halon 1301 Fire Extinguishing Systems
NFPA 13 Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems
NFPA 13 E Recommended Practice for Fire Department Operations in Properties Protected by Sprinkler and Standpipe Systems
NFPA 14 Standard for the Installation of Standpipe and Hose Systems
NFPA 15 Standard for Water Spray Fixed Systems for Fire Protection
NFPA 16 Standard for the Installation of Foam-Water Sprinkler and Foam-Water Spray Systems
NFPA 22 Standard for Water Tanks for Private Fire Protection
NFPA 24 Standard for the Installation of Private Fire Service Mains and Their Appurtenances
NFPA 25 Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water-Based Fire Protection Systems
NFPA 30 Flammable and Combustible Liquids Code
NFPA 45 Standard on Fire Protection for Laboratories Using Chemicals
NFPA 55 Compressed Gases and Cryogenic Fluids Code
NFPA 56 Standard for Fire and Explosion Prevention During Cleaning and Purging of Flammable Gas Piping Systems
NFPA 58 Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code
NFPA 59A Standard for the Production, Storage, and Handling of Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG)
NFPA 67 Guide on Explosion Protection for Gaseous Mixtures in Pipe Systems
NFPA 69 Standard on Explosion Prevention Systems
NFPA 70 National Electrical Code®
NFPA 70E Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace®
NFPA 77 Recommended Practice on Static Electricity
NFPA 79 Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery
NFPA 91 Standard for Exhaust Systems for Air Conveying of Vapors, Gases, Mists, and Noncombustible Particulate Solids
NFPA 220 Standard on Types of Building Construction
NFPA 221 Standard for High Challenge Fire Walls, Fire Walls, and Fire Barrier Walls
NFPA 290 Standard for Fire Testing of Passive Protection Materials for Use on LP-Gas Containers
NFPA 329 Recommended Practice for Handling Releases of Flammable and Combustible Liquids and Gases
NFPA 386 Standard for Portable Shipping Tanks for Flammable and Combustible Liquids
NFPA 496 Standard for Purged and Pressurized Enclosures for Electrical Equipment
NFPA 497 Recommended Practice for the Classification of Flammable Liquids, Gases, or Vapors and of Hazardous (Classified) Locations for Electrical Installations in Chemical Process Areas
NFPA 791 Recommended Practice and Procedures for Unlabeled Electrical Equipment Evaluation

[NorPene Solutions]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

The fire marshal would be unlikely to approve it in a residence, or adjacent to a residence, even with two hour fire rated walls.

The Dabzpro's Dominator lower end does not appear to be an ASME rated container and does appear to hold a significant amount of butane. How much butane do they say it takes to process 8 lbs of material?

As far as a floor level exhaust, with makeup from the opposing wall, that would work. You can also use a push/pull air knife exhaust.

Give some thought as to where the butane ends up, should you have a catastrophic release, and make sure you use an explosion proof fan on a pull system.

What goes if it does blow?

An excellent book on ventilation design, is Industrial Ventilation, a manual of recommended practices, by the American Conference of Governmental Hygienists.

I have an ancient 17th addition from 1982, so I won't try to pass on page numbers, but the book is the bible for ventilation design.

Thanks very much GW, your insight and the info you provided and your time, it is greatly appreciated! I have much reading and research to do before I fire her up for the first time. (please forgive the pun, but I don't want to end up a BHOtard!)

I am located in Canada and am having problems finding a supplier for or a proper, small, explosion proof exhaust fan, that is economical to purchase($500max) that would suit my small room (8x8x8). Any ideas on what type/brand of fans and places to source them would be appreciated.

This is all I can find so far,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PENN-FAN...9b222#shpCntId

Thanks,

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by mrsmarybrown

Thanks very much GW, your insight and the info you provided and your time, it is greatly appreciated! I have much reading and research to do before I fire her up for the first time. (please forgive the pun, but I don't want to end up a BHOtard!)

I am located in Canada and am having problems finding a supplier for or a proper, small, explosion proof exhaust fan, that is economical to purchase($500max) that would suit my small room (8x8x8). Any ideas on what type/brand of fans and places to source them would be appreciated.

This is all I can find so far,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PENN-FAN...9b222#shpCntId

Thanks,

Axle flow fans like that are OK in free air, but they won't tolerate any back pressure, so you will need to use a centrifugal fan.

Explosion proof fans are spark proof and the fan section is separate from the motor air stream, plus have totally enclosed fan cooled motors.

Here are some Grainger examples: Seeing what is entailed, you might check local and other less expensive resources.

https://www.grainger.com/category/spa...ecatalog/N-jpr

Another insightful link: https://www.cincinnatifan.com/centrif...ns-blowers.htm

[high life 45]

Originally Posted by mrsmarybrown

I'm trying to determine if I can safely set up a closed loop extraction system (Dabzpro's Dominator with a 4"x72" material chamber, approx 8 lbs of material per run) in my detached garage. The shop is 12'x25'x8' ceilings.

I don't think your 8' ceiling is high enough for a cls with a 6' material tube. What's the total height of the machine?

[NorPene Solutions]

Originally Posted by high life 45

I don't think your 8' ceiling is high enough for a cls with a 6' material tube. What's the total height of the machine?

I'm not sure of the extractors base height, but it should just fit, at least I hope so. Thats a good question, I will have to confirm with the MFG. I am just now preparing for the extractors arrival later this month.

[GratefulOne]

Originally Posted by mrsmarybrown

Thanks very much GW, your insight and the info you provided and your time, it is greatly appreciated! I have much reading and research to do before I fire her up for the first time. (please forgive the pun, but I don't want to end up a BHOtard!)

I am located in Canada and am having problems finding a supplier for or a proper, small, explosion proof exhaust fan, that is economical to purchase($500max) that would suit my small room (8x8x8). Any ideas on what type/brand of fans and places to source them would be appreciated.

This is all I can find so far,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PENN-FAN...9b222#shpCntId

Thanks,

For industrial use I have worked with Continental Fan to supply explosion proof blowers. Granted this was 10 years ago but at that time they were the cheapest we could find. The quality was top notch. They were very helpful in helping us select the proper set ups. They will ask engineer level questions if you want tech help so you need to be able to have that conversation. From my experience 10 years ago, a quality explosion proof blower that can handle volume and some back pressure costs at least $1,000.

https://www.continentalfan.com/

[GratefulOne]

One source for cheaper used explosion proof blowers is paint spray booths. In fact setting up the extractor in a spray booth would a great idea for safety. Spray booth blowers are normally 16" to 72" axil blowers. As GW stated axil blowers do not deal with back pressure but in spray booth the blower is sized to account for this. They are also pretty loud. Often the cheapest way to get these blowers is to attend industrial auctions. If you are willing to take down a booth you can pick them up really cheap. I have bought 8’x8’x8’ booths with 36” blowers and stacks for $50 each before at auction. It takes two guys about 4 to 8 hours to take down a booth. Used booths this size go for around $1,000 each ready to ship. You can find just the blowers for $200 to $1,000 depending on the size. Check eBay and craigslist for blowers.

To meet fire codes you will need EVERY item with in 20 feet of the extractor work space to be exposion proof. (Based on NFPA standards 10 years ago).

[SkyHighLer]

'Tain't perfect, but, nice one!

"Butane Safety Quiz"
https://youtu.be/qxI_hVZ3YVw

[Lefthand]

In regards to paint booth here's some info from private inspector/engineer company, I am not associated with tem just a copy and paste from their site

I’ve heard that using a paint mixing booth or a paint spray booth is the easiest way to create an approved extraction room. Is that true?





Not necessarily. This option may be viable if all of the appropriate criteria are met. Possible issues could include: the ventilation exhaust ports are not located within 12” of the floor; electrical outlets may need to be added or modified, and/or structure does not provide a 1 hour fire barrier. Typically, the exhaust fans provided with a spray booth or mixing booth are capable of producing air flow between 4,000 and 13,000 cubic feet per minute. Per the IFC, the required flow rate in a large paint booth (350 square feet) would be no more than 350 cubic feet per minute. The energy cost required to run the supplied exhaust fans may be cost prohibitive in the long term.