[SilverSurfer_OG]

Ah yes good old poo

I know a bloke who grows beautiful tomatoes by putting a bag of sheep poo and small bag of dynamic lifter in a barrel of water inside a pillow case. This soak becomes nutrient rich and is diluted down with fresh water when applied to his plants. Its all he uses.

I used the same principal and hung dried kelp pieces, pig poo and some of the Neutrog pellets in an old pillow case and suspended in a 200litre plastic barrel with a tap. Works well and by adding some activated EM1 ferment or Lacto bacillus liquid keeps the smell right down.

Lacto Bacillus

One of the major workhorse beneficial indigenous microorganism used in natural farming is lacto bacilli. This particular beneficial microorganism is popularly used in composting that specifically arrest foul odors associated with anaerobic decomposition. Lactic acid bacteria thrive and feed on the ammonia released in the decomposition normally associated with foul odors. So if you need to decompose or ferment wastes less foul odors, lactic acid bacteria is the specific bacteria to use. Its application in organic farming is enormous. In aquaculture, one of the problem is related to water quality. Poor water quality stresses the fish which in turn stunts their growth and affects their health. This is very evident specially on high density and tank aquaculture. The ammonia produced through fish excretions pollute the water and stress the fish. With regular addition of this beneficial microorganisms to the water, this ammonia problem is minimized, if not fully arrested. It helps hasten or complete the denitrification or converting wastes into forms not harmful to fish.

Spraying diluted solution of lactic acid bacteria serum to the plant and soil helps plant growth and makes them more healthy. As it is applied to the soil or the leaves, these beneficial bacteria aid in the decomposition process, thus allowing more food to be available and assimilated by the plant.

Lactic acid bacteria is also known to produce enzymes and natural antibiotics aiding effective digestion and has antibacterial properties, including control of salmonella and e. coli. To farmers, what are observed are the general health of the plants and animals, better nutrient assimilation, feed conversion and certain toxins eliminations.

Here’s a simple method of collecting this type of microorganism. Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air.

1.Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) in a container like plastic pot with lid.

---basically get some rice, get a jar, put rice and clean fresh water no chlorine and such. shake till the water turns foggy, strain into another jar.

2.Allow air gap at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the (not vacuum tight, allowing air still to move into the container) container with lid loosely.

---like it says, the AIR is key as the air is full of microbes including lactic acid bacteria. just in low low concentrations but along with tons of other microbes, thats why were making more of them. i used a mason jar and had a gap with the lid.

3.Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C.

--- i put mine in a closet, the temp is more stable in there and doesn't have much variation. wait 7 days, youll see a thin layer of something on top.

4. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid.

---like said you will see a thin layer of something( also remember everyone will collect different microbes, as we all live in different places, so your collecting microbes adapted to YOUR area, which makes this work even better.)

5. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. You may use skim or powdered milk, although fresh milk is best.

--- now just get something, anything to measure. either it be a spoon, a cup, a tablespoon, 1/4 cup doesnt matter( except the fact this will tell you how much you will have when done) ill use 1/4 cup for example. take one 1/4c of your microbes, now add 10 of them with milk.

6. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals.

--- now a week has gone by, by this time the milk will look like cheese at the top of the jar/container. but all goopy. you can either strain it or if you used a wide mouth jar, tip sideways slightly and you can slide a spoon under and take it all out at once. toss it in the compost pile and forget about it. ive never fed it to an animal so i dont know about that. edit: my chickens LOVE this stuff!!!

7. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. Do not use refined sugar as they are chemically bleached and may affect the lactic acid bacteria. The sugar or molasses will keep the lactic acid bacteria alive at room temperature. One to one ratio is suggested although sugar, regardless of quantity is meant simply, serving as food for the bacteria to keep them alive.

-- this is where everyone seems to be getting mixed up. the sugars are just for food to multiply. like you, they are organisms that need food. without it they will die and im pretty sure ( but could be wrong) that lacto b. isnt cannibalistic lol. now since your only making enough to use now, you dont really need to store any imo. unless you plan to use more in the next few days to a week add some sugars. now with the fridge and sugars it says "or" which is the key word. it says "the sugars keep them alive at room temperature" but like i said i always use it fresh, its cheap, and easy to make, and doesn't need to be applied every time. so why save some and take chances of using liquid with nothing alive or not nearly as many as the fresh stuff? so to get your pure culture, mix with molasses and let ferment for 24 hours( 12 when its warm), this is where the lacto B multiplies like crazy.

8. Now, these lactic acid bacteria serum with sugar or molasses will be your pure culture. To use, you can dilute this pure culture with 20 parts water. Make sure water is not chemically treated with, like chlorine. Remember, we are dealing with live microorganisms and chlorine can kill them. This diluted form 1:20 ratio will be your basic lactic acid bacteria concoction. Two to four tablespoons added to water of one gallon can be used as your basic spray and can be added to water and feeds of animals.

--- now that you have your culture, we go back to the measuring thing. so this is where you decide how much you really need. 1/4 cup + twenty 1/4 cups = 5 1/4cups. then your going to add that at 2-4 tablespoons per GALLON and then apply. so 5 1/4 cups in tablespoons is about 84 tablespoons. you can see where that is going. it adds up to a lot of final liquid to apply. so its easy to make enough for your needs with some basic math.

9. Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help.

---apply,sit back, and smoke a bowl.

just thought of this, if you store it in the fridge in a glass mason jar with the lid, make sure to burp it once a week. i know it builds pressure and its just a guess but given enough time it MIGHT make it explode, i know ive had an exploding compost tea in a bottle before, so just to make sure its on your mind, i don't want no one getting glass shards to the face

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Soiless mix

I prefer a soiless mix based on coco coir for my indoor grows. Coir is a great medium that holds lots of water and oxygen making for explosive root development. It can be tricky to pull off a 100% organic grow but making sure the basics are right and using good quality coco i have had good results. I no longer use a ph meter and dont measure much other than by eye.

Coco and organics isnt so hard if you make sure there is a steady amount of nitrogen and available calcium and magnesium. Coco sucks up lots of N at first and then releases it to the plant. If there isnt enough there the coco will take the N out of the plant. This is good for late flower but not so good in veg

I have found the recipe for calcium phosphate really does wonders for the calcium top up. Great for early flower especially and in general with the extra P.

A foliar with epsom salts is good for magnesium. That and regular molasses teas.

They do get very hungry once settled in and drink a lot. Keep up the N right up to mid flower and you cant go wrong.

You can easily overwater also in early veg. 100% coco not so much but with LCs#1 type mix with castings/compost etc the bottom of the pots can become waterlogged.

I love Hempy buckets with perlite or DE in the res. Any kind of wick type system makes life much easier. A drip is very good for coco grows as well.

LCs#1 is great for clones and seedlings too.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

I am getting a coco/zeolite/DE/soil/castings mix together now for use in a couple of weeks. Layering a big garbage bin with alternate layers of the above and liberal amounts of organic chicken/cow poo pellets. Then mix this with recycled medium from my outdoors grow. Water with a nice tea and let rest.

By letting it sit the coco will absorb all the N it needs and plants should take off like rockets.

Properties

Coco coir is a proven best alternative to any growing media. Its use as a growing medium outperforms any other medium used for growing vegetables, ornamentals and tree plants. Its soft structure promotes easy root penetration and healthy growth. Coco coir is 100% environmentally friendly. It is a renewable resource that is consistent in quality. Coco coir has the best physical and chemical properties to promote better plant growth.

Coco has high water-holding capacity. It can hold water up to eight times of its weight and release it over a period of time.
Coco has ideal pH in the range of 6-6.7
It has excellent drainage and air porosity for better plant growth
Coco is very low in EC and carries mostly potassium salts, which is an essential major plant nutrient
Cation exchange capacity is very good
Coco coir has some anti-fungal properties that help plants to get rid of soil borne diseases. It inhibits pathogens like Pithium
Coco is very easy to re-hydrate after being dehydrated
Contains significant amounts of phosphorous (10-50ppm) and potassium (150-450 ppm)
As mentioned above Coco coir is not just a natural product with very good properties for plant growth – it also has some winning advantages over other growing mediums.

Advantages of Coco Coir
It is a 100% renewable resource
Coco coir is light in weight
It is consistent in high quality
Coco coir is completely environmentally friendly
The top of the product layer in grow bags/pots always remain dry, leaving behind no chances of fungal growth
Coco coir never shrinks, cracks or produces crust
It promotes better root systems in a short time
Coco coir is odorless, pleasant to handle, and uniform in composition

Good organic soiless blends should include some quality soil,compost or castings to add the microbes and fungi we need. We have to be careful to keep the mix light and soft so the roots have little resistance as they spread out, especially the fine, feeding roots. I have had some problems adding castings as they were very sticky and clogged up.

Its good to add an extra drainage amendment too. I used to use perlite but its reputed to contain a lot of fluoride so now i avoid. I recommend diamatecous earth and zeolite. Check out the thread in the organics forum on drainage materials for more info. It is applicable to both soil and soiless.

These amendments are available here in Oz as kitty litter for the DE and bbq fat cleaner for zeolite. I got both of these from my local supermarket that starts with w.

The brands of coco i have used are:

Nutrifield - excellent quality in bricks no need to rinse and prebuffered for magnesium and calcium

Brunnings - cheap in bricks, does contain some mineral ferts but they soon be gone. Its quality but probably good practice to rinse a few times just to be sure theres no sea salt residue. I do this now in a plastic bin with a few holes in the bottom. Fill with plenty water and the brick rehydrates quite fast.

There are other brands but these are the only two i have used. The Nutrifield i found on ebay and the Brunnings is in most big hardware stores. Make sure you buy the best for indoors. My current mix is untested but i think it should go well.

This base mix is mixed with a good amount of my previous grows. I always recycle some mix and have usually 1/3 or so in there. I like to keep the bio-char especially as it will have tons of good microbes already present. Hopefully Must invest in a microscope soon... Bio-char is excellent. More on that later or look at my sig if you want to know more.



This is good for smaller personal grows but for outdoors or more plants i would look for these in bulk.

For outdoor use coco is great to lighten up heavy clay mixes and wont stand out like perlite. You could also use the larger and cheaper coco for mixing with lots of soil and its much cheaper. Rinse well!

I had very nice results this season using 24 litre plastic pots, Nutrifield coco and DE. All purchased online but i am sure your local hydro store etc has good stuff too.

[Brushtail]

SilverSurfer great thread mate, lots of helpful information for those organically inclined.
I liked your idea about isolating lacto bacillus sp. , i dabble a bit in microbiology and sometimes people are wholly unaware the role bacteria play in every day life. Lacto bacillus is a lactose fermenting bacteria, by taking a non selective media (rice water) and then using a selective media (milk) to isolate! what a neat idea!. Just a small amendment why not inoculate a lactose medium, such as milk, with live culture yoghurt. There are plenty of dairy products that use lacto bacillus and are possible sources of inoculant and are mono-cultures too! Just saves a bit of time but still gets the desired result. Have you dabbled with inoculating soil with mycorrhiza fungi ?


On a side note did people know anthrax is a soil born pathogen! But don't worry the common anthrax lacks a cell capsule that renders it avirulent.

[johnnybsmokin]

Hey there SIlver

The EM1 i found at a local hardware store. It only cost around $20. Once it has been activated (in an anaerobic environment + sugar) it goes a long way.

So to recap.

Plant material
Sugar (mollasses is great but any raw sugar) The pineapple used its own natural sugars.
EM1

= home made, organic plant tonic/fertiliser

Nice thread my friend, would you mind telling me which "hardware" group/shop you got your Em1 from. Iv'e read about this in other threads and would be very interested in trying it out. Maybe a photo of the product as well if possible???.

Been growing organically now for over a year now in soil and love it and am always looking to help improve the microbes and soil.

I noticed that you also mentioned the "proganics" range of hydro nutes from bunning!!, how do you find them??, as i was considering trying a seperate grow with the use of there products soon. They do mention "organic" on the bottle so am keen to try and see what the results are.

GREAT thread, it's about time some one started an Aussie organic thread like this so keep it up.

Subscribing and pulling up a chair

Cheers Johnny

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Originally Posted by Brushtail

Just a small amendment why not inoculate a lactose medium, such as milk, with live culture yoghurt. There are plenty of dairy products that use lacto bacillus and are possible sources of inoculant and are mono-cultures too! Just saves a bit of time but still gets the desired result. Have you dabbled with inoculating soil with mycorrhiza fungi ?

Yeah i just use the rice water. I think the idea is to collect the local bacteria that are floating around and use them. What you are suggesting may well work but if it aint broke

The mycorz. i have used as a tea bag kinda thing i got online. Wasnt cheap and unsure of any immediate benefits i could mention. When i had my bio-box/obbt (see sig) innoculating was a big part of the guidelines i followed and i did see lots of fungal growth. I would rather use compost as an innoculant but not an expert by any means in this area.

Originally Posted by johnnybsmokin

Nice thread my friend, would you mind telling me which "hardware" group/shop you got your Em1 from. Iv'e read about this in other threads and would be very interested in trying it out. Maybe a photo of the product as well if possible???.

Been growing organically now for over a year now in soil and love it and am always looking to help improve the microbes and soil.

I noticed that you also mentioned the "proganics" range of hydro nutes from bunning!!, how do you find them??, as i was considering trying a seperate grow with the use of there products soon. They do mention "organic" on the bottle so am keen to try and see what the results are.

I got mine from a large Mitre 10. Havent seen it anywhere else but. Neutrog do make Gogo juice which looks similar which i have seen in a few places.

Have a look at the pics a few posts up and you can see the EM1 bottle. Its made by Eco organics. A quick online search with the terms "em1 organic gardening australia" show a few places to buy it online.

The Prorganics range is only available at Bunnings. Just look in the gardening section. Because they dont have any material data specs i am suspicious as to just how organic and chemical free they are. But i do like their Stimuliser!

Cheers guys!

all those who live SEQ or thereabouts need to know about Nutri Tech Solutions at Yandina in seq. they manufacture and prepare a wide range of biodynamic fertilisers, humates, microbes and supply natural products like soft rock phosphate and natural rock potash. they supply in quantities for home or farm. can't find my catalogue or I 'd be more specific with their address ... but I reckon they're on the web if you take a look. cheers ...

and seeing as VOM has brought up the specific of goat poo ... am I right in thinking goat poo is richer than cow and horse? I can get literally tons of goat poo ... already decomposed.
goat poo is not as hay-like, or straw-like as cow or horse poo, so will it be equally useful for adding humus and retaining water?

M8 the goat shit doesn't burn is what I like about it,outdoors I put it on by the bucket loads,its breaks down quickly, the worms love it and the vegie beds that I have been digging it into for a couple of years look so rich..it was just garden mix from a nursery when I started doesn't look like that now.I like the horse shit you see out the front of Stables..usually only a $ or 2 per bag I put that on top of my beds in winter and cover with lucern hay and dig it in come spring Here's the link for Nutri Tech looks like they have some good product.Thanks wilbur..
https://shop.nutri-tech.com.au/catalo...hp?cPath=50269

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Goat shit a? Think i saw an ad on Gumtree.com offering free goat poo/bedding if you take it away. I bet wallaby poo is good stuff. Plenty of that around here naturally fertilising.

In one of my books the author recommends cow poo as it has twice the phosphorous compared to horse. But the best stuff is what you can find easily and close by. Apparantly its possible to just grow a plant in rabbit poo but never tried it

I recently purchased Tim Marshall's new book 'Composting - the ultimate organic guide to recycling your garden'. I cant recommend it and his advice on gardening highly enough. He mentions that fast growing plants like tomatoes thrive in fresh manure as mulch when in veg.

Lots of great recipes in there too using eggshells, dandelions, all kinds of stuff we might consider waste or weeds.

Nutri-tech are great! A few years back i bought their Stimulate (powdered kelp and fulvic acid) and Instant humus granules.

https://shop.nutri-tech.com.au/catalo...roducts_id=185

https://shop.nutri-tech.com.au/catalo...roducts_id=190


Because they in dry form they go a long way and are much cheaper on postage

Their range is quite impressive for the serious farmer and home gardener

Batphone.com.au are another great Australian company for organics. I have used and very much liked their Organic Link dry fert. Especially the neem cake which kills fungus gnats and is great all round plant tonic/insecticide.

https://www.batphone.com.au/index.php...mart&Itemid=29

I also got their Micro-Phos liquid mineral suspension made from micronised guano. This is great for flower development.

https://www.batphone.com.au/index.php...mart&Itemid=29

well. you guys are mine of information! a gold mine.

VOM I looked at those grows you recommended and I have the same basic soil as those guys. just not so rich (I can fix that) and not so well watered (I ll put my gardens at the end of the drains off my driveway). but I have the same basics and am encouraged by what I see in the posts you recommended.