[oldhaole]

Some questions were asked from a poster looking for a powerful, trippy psychidelic sativa strain. In my infinite wisdom...that's sarcasam... I mentioned that Hawaiian sativas should not be overlooked.

Unfortunatly this exchange took place in a breeders thread. The last thing I want is to threadjack anyone's thread. So I volentered to start this thread, and answer questions about Hawaiian Sativas.

First question...
I had read a while back, I believe in Di Wee Dalats thread, that some sativa growers have noticed flushes of potency happening in between the flushes of new flowers that sat's often produce. The theory is that the new flowers dilute the density of older more mature/potent flowers. Have you noticed any such phenomenon?

That's a loaded question. Those new flowers indicate that the product is not yet fully mature. I have noticed potency fluxuations as a sativa matures. I have noticed that toward the end of the run, my sativas bulk up, swell, pack on mass...whatever you want to call it. Sativas under a loop will look mature. But they can...and should... go another couple of weeks.

They take their own sweet time to mature, and the potency changes as the THC, CBC's et al build up. The new flowers should be looked for....expected....it's all part of the maturation process. Do the new flowers dilute the potency? I don't think so. It's not ready to harvest yet.

Next question...
Granted, if I had the opportunity to grow out some Hawaiian sativas I surely would, but those genetics aren't available to me so I have to pass them up. Also, most of the time any strains with Hawaiian genetics are hybrids that include indica genetics and I'd rather not go there.

I know it's totally unrelated, but I've heard that there is such a thing had a Hawaiian indica. Know anything about that?

Hwaiian Indica? No such animal. Hawaiian Sativa...same trip.
Got you confused yet?

With a few exceptions, every plant here has been introduced here. Be it thru the first Hawaiian migrations, to a weed seed in your pocket... everything has been brought here by man or nature. We are the most remote land mass out there. A blank slate.

Mainland Indicas will grow here, but it takes a couple of generations to adjust to our photoperiod. The mainland indicas bud early, or late...then when you have it finally dialed in ...Mold.
We are humid. Here it averages @85%.

Indica will grow in the dry lowlands. But they yield a fifth of a sativa girl. Sativas are made for Hawaii. Perfectly suited...long growing season, can handle both rain and humidity, giant yield, and when done right, the high....Second to none.

We are not strain obscessed here. Let me explain.

I grow and breed my own crosses. So do about a thousand others. Everything both they and I produce can be called Maui Wowie....or Maui whatever. Sativa, Indica, Hybreds....it's all called by the same name.

Maui is a place. Kona is a place. Hawaii is a place. Hundreds of different strains all called the same damn thing. It's called marketing. What would you rather grow?....Bloodweed....or Maui Wowie?

I'm not saying the breeders are selling you random crosses and calling it Hawaiian. They take a tiny little piece of the pie and put it out there. But the only way to grow Hawaiian is to grow it here. The sun, soil, and climate can't be duplicated.

I hope I've answered your questions. And sorry about all my spelling mistakes.

Pic 1 is an Indica...fresh off the boat. It was sent to me from CA. as a Thai/skunk cross. Is it? Hell if I know.

Pic 2 is a Sativa. Both pics were taken on the same day last year. They are next to each other.

[yesum]

If I understand right, as long as there are new flowers coming on, leave it to grow? 'Under the loupe it looks mature', meaning the trichs are amber?

Good to hear there are real sativas out there still. I have one in my closet btw, Panama Red, care of ACE.

[oldhaole]

Keep in mind I grow outdoors. I can only speak of what I know.

In my book Sativas can always go a little longer. Easiest way to mess up any plant is taking it too early. What tells me when to think about taking it is when she drops most of her leaves. Then I wait another week.

I look at the new growing bud tip. When most of the trichs are amber there, and it stoped pushing out new flowers then it's time.

That's outdoor. I've never grown one inside. So please take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't know if an indoor plant will dump it's leaves like an outdoor one will. Other indoor growers can advise you far better than I.

[crunkyeah]

Hey there, I understand everything and agree with most parts you make in your posts I do have one thing to say though; that first picture you posted of an 'indica'..I laughed really when I saw it. That is a pure sativa right there. Thai and skunk are both sativa strains, mix em and you get a pretty pure sativa. You can be sure of the sativa genetics because the fan leaves are long and narrow, as opposed to wide and stout leaves of indica. I don't know who told you it was an indica, as they obviously didn't know what they were talking about.

I wish I was in a position where I could grow outdoors and close to the equator. You're a lucky fella to have that option, as that's how nature intended it. That's how it's best

[alaskind]

^^^^^.... sorry skunk isnt pure sativa....

[oldhaole]

That's what it was sent to me as a. Was it?....Hell no.... I figured to get a comment or two...If that girl was a Sativa....I should give it up and go home.

But thats was what the person that sent me the seeds called it. Who am I to change his name for it? He can call it anything he wants. I should have called it Unknown Indica. But that wasn't my call...I'm simply telling you what I was told. I'll play along.

Labels can be misleading...It had the wide leaves and structure of an Indica. And all the seed from that gift were all different. None got over 6 ft.

Pic 1 is an Indica...fresh off the boat. It was sent to me from CA. as a Thai/skunk cross. Is it? Hell if I know.

Thats as close as I come to calling bullshit on a gift. Sorry for the confusion.

[inquest]

Hey! Thanks for answering my harvest/potency question!! That bit of info will be very handy in a couple months.

I have another question for ya if you dont mind. I'm wondering if you see large differences in high between your sativas, generation to generation? Do you select for any traits inparticular when you make a cross? Do you use 1 male / 1 female or multiple plants for the cross? I have noticed big differences in high with some South African sativa I have. Which if I grew for profit that would really have screwed up my day!! It was indoor, btw.

[oldhaole]

Inquest...

This is hard to explain. Southeast Asian genetics are a tangled knot. A plant with with a common ancestor, grown in literaly thousands of areas over tens of thousands of years. Isolating a single desirable trait...call it commonality...whatever...from this genetic soup...way above my pay grade.

We went around the hard part by using a single male BT and breeding it with two more or our basic Hawaiian Sativa strains with followable lines (bloodweed, and strawberry guava). Just for grins and giggles we also crossed the BT with a White Widow and a Maui Hash Bud plant I had growing. We then stashed the seeds in the freezer.

We pull the seeds as needed. I don't have the skill, time or room to cross these further. I think anytime SE asian strains are involved you never know what is stashed somewhere in the genetic closet.

So there is no large difference year to year. We use the same seeds. They are remarkably stable. After using the same stock for many years you come to know what to look for as the plant grows. After a couple of months I can tell with 80% accuracy which traits dominate.

I know Hawaii MMJ law is not written like this, but what it boils down to is you get 7 holes. If you pull 5 ozs or 5 lbs it's all the same. It is a given that the Thai crosses get big.
That's why I come back to them every year.

[inquest]

Makes sense. I can see how your cache of seeds would be pretty similar. I'm guessing Bloodweed and Strawberry Guava have been around on the island awhile? Plus using 7-14 seeds a year from a few plants that could have netted you thousands of seeds.... yeah, you could stay in that generation for quite some time. hehe
If your plants in this gen. are pretty stable I would imagine that the parents of the BlackThai were pretty similar as well..... Interesting. Being 80% certain of whats to come, Imvho, I'd say you've got some well worked genes. I find this stuff very interesting. I'd love to be able to dink around Luther Burbank style

Thanks again for the info! Good luck on your long season!

[Aab]

great thread!!!