[Hydrosun]

There is NO SUCH THING as ILLEGITIMATE cannabis sales. Unless you are talking about a fraud where someone pretends to sell cannabis but it is really something else.

You need to switch your paradigm. Just because I was born in an evil land where evil men outlawed a plant, does not mean my choice to grow and share that plant is illegitimate.

It may not be MY market, because by definition a market is the sum economic activity of all participants; but what I know for certain is this multi billion dollar industry is LEGITIMATE and will never be controlled by immoral prohibitionists.

My guess is you are not part of this market, or you would know that the price of cannabis IS decreasing despite the immoral prohibitions and the real expense and risk associated with circumventing them.

I don't think anyone on this forum thinks that growing in houses is the most efficient way to cultivate cannabis, but since prohibitions still exist many use residential buildings to circumvent immoral prohibitions.

Thanks for the economics lesson but there is no inherent ability for a corporation to out produce a sole proprietorship or any other flavor of business entity.

You see production comes from working farmers and invested capital, even hippy collectives running at a non profit pace can have farmers and capital.

As to what will be produced by which businesses; if cannabis follows other intoxicants then there will be the Budweisers of the world and there will be great micro breweries that receive a very large premium over mass produced crap.

[humble1]

I'd still grow it if I was guaranteed 50 bucks an oz, or if I could apply for a subsidy to pay me not to grow it for 50 bucks an oz.

[Hydrosun]

Originally Posted by Lazyman

Gang-related growers, fuck em and everyone who pulls this shit. Thieves with guns, gives us all a bad name and hurts our cause, and depresses our market. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

The people arrested -- Queenie Y.K. Yee, 38, Bill Dao Bian Qi, 33, Wilson S. Cheung, 50, all three of Millbrae; Winnie Jiang Phan, 47, Qian Wen Li, 47, Hu Weiren, 49, Jia Li Hu, 20, Weix Lian, 48, Wendy Lau, 49, all six of San Francisco; and Zei Wei Chen, 42, of Alameda -- are being held in lieu of $1 million bail each.

The list above doesn't scream gang-banger to me. I know 47 year old Winnie and 49 year old Wendy are some tough birds but the rest of them are pikers!

I don't agree with them stealing power but besides that there is nothing they are accused of that has harmed ANYONE!

The pigs smashed up 15 houses in the bay area and stole 22lbs and $100,000 in cash from these hard working people.

There are no accusations that these people were robbing and stealing to have $100,000. The state and federal government will spend well more than that 100K for these raids and related trials.

What do we as a society get out of all of this? Wasted dollars by the millions and 10 fucking people put in a cage or shipped out of the country.

Certainly not something that would make one proud to be American.

[kyndone]

Guns are a product of the high risk still inherent to participating in an illegitimate business.

and hydrosun, it is illegitimate if it is not sold legally, which is the case with most folks, unless they are doing it through a licensed co-op, even some of theese co-ops we have here in diego are illegitimate, and are getting shut down.

i agree, and stand for,( though i do not like guns ), our right to bare arms, and in the right hands, (people who are not f-d up in the head, or criminals/gangsters) they can be a good way to protect yourself, a friend of mine recently had his door kicked in by three guys in ski masks, and guns who robbed him of his grow, took all his money,and bashed him in the head with one of their guns,(he was not even fighting with them, he is 5-5ft. tall and weighs a buck fifty with wet cloths on)now, i have no idea, (other than what he has told me) what it feels like to be that scared,helpless, or violated,(and after all the damage done) angry, but i do know, he went and bought 2 9mil hand guns, and is almost daily going to the indoor firing range, i am more afraid for him now, because i wonder all the time, if he would have had a gun that night, would he even still be alive today, but i also know, i would never want to go through what he has gone through,, and that im not one to give up my rights, or amendments, (even though the gov. is slowly trying to take them away) even i am considering getting one, just for protection only.

[smoke1sun]

Gang banger my ass.
Just another bullshit way to justify a waste of time and money.

I agree stealing power was the only thing these "gang bangers" did wrong.

[Hydrosun]

Again please change your paradigm. It is illegal to be Christian in Saudi Arabia, It was illegal to be a Jew in Nazi Germany.

It was legal to sell slaves on the docks of South Carolina for many generations.

You keep your laws and I'll keep my morality.

The only legal Jews are the ones that sign up with the Gestapo and wear a bright yellow 6 pointed star.

Licensed co-ops are the registered Jews of this land of the free.

I will never come around to your way of thinking that might makes right irrespective of morality.

Jefferson, Lincoln, MLK, Franklin, Madison and many others all held the belief that immoral laws are void on their face. I'll stick with those guys, not the corruption of smaller men.

[kyndone]

and yes i would still grow, if it were worth nothing, i love growing, and i love smoking what I myself have created, i love the way the fruit looks when its going through the changes, and even if i could buy it for 5 bucks a gram, or 50 bucks an ounce, i still would not know, what chemicals and whatever was added to the grow, or how it was flushed, or if it were plucked too early, or too late, if i do it, i know all these things.

[kyndone]

ok, i see what you are saying hydrosun, big picture,and whatnot, and yes in that perspective,the co-ops are the jews, though i dont think anyone has been forced at gunpoint to put their names on the lists, it is gov. control, they want their (gov.) dirty little hands in everyones pie, and they want to know who is doing what, with how many cookies, its a game., America has become a big game, and ultimately we (American people) are going to struggle to win, we are going broke paying for gas, electric,and food, criminals have more money and guns, than any average American person does, judges and politicians are payed off, or bribed, almost, daily, cops are losing the drug war, its a mess. but i think we are talking about this on the wrong forum.

[Hydrosun]

Originally Posted by kyndone

cops are losing the drug war, its a mess. but i think we are talking about this on the wrong forum.

This is the perfect place to discuss "Cops losing the drug war."

This "Gang" of 10 middle aged immigrants has now been put out of business at the expense of the tax payers of America and CA.

What do these tax payers get? $100K, 22lbs of weed off the street and 10 individuals in California no longer cultivating cannabis.

What did it cost the tax payers? ????????? I guess transparency in government spending is a really low priority. I could only guess at the costs involved; but they did mention DEA, Imigration, and Local authorities (from several counties). So my guess is the costs of this are already in the millions and after the trials, deportations, or incarcerations it certainly will be multi millions.

What about this proposition: Police will never WIN a Drug War BECAUSE it is the very essence of HUMAN nature to take drugs and alter (escape) their reality.

Outlawing HUMAN NATURE does not abolish a behavior it only changes how that behavior is expressed.

As an example it is illegal to be gay in some nations around the globe, but I doubt the genetics of babies being born in those countries recognize this law.

The absolute failure of "The drug war" is evident by this story. If this is the best prohibitionists can do to scare the country into supporting them, they'll be unemployed sooner than I thought.

[Hydrosun]

Those facing imprisonment over cannabis, often put their names on the government list of cannabis users or caregivers. So yes the government is using guns (threat of imprisonment) to get free people to "Out themselves."