UC/RDWC Flavor and Organics? - Organic Hydro - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

Space Case · 01-20-2011, 09:45 PM

Okay, admit it you undercurrent fiends. Your flavor is never 100% using ANY commercial nutes, especially when running a sterile res. Anyone run pure organics in their UC's? And I don't mean shit out of a bottle, I mean EWC teas, guanos, etc.

I was told that most kelp products aren't refined enough for UC/DWC because they carry algae and will cause blooms. Also, most sugar/carb sources will also encourage the wrong microbial growth, so tend to stay away from those.

But it seems you could do a full run with just compost and ewc teas, combined with various types of guanos. Maybe amend here and there with some cal mag supplements (I need to order some pure Calcium Oxide), and some kind of root zone product, i.e. Root Excel, Aquashield, etc.

Anyone running UC/DWC without the store bought bottles? Organic? Semi-organic?

And while were at it, anyone running a purely organic line out of the bottle? Such as Age Old or Earth Juice? I read about someone using Earth Nectar & Earth Ambrosia in their UC...how did that work out?

I have done some runs in the past using various sources of kelp, compost teas, and molasses, but it ended in root rotness. But the bud I did manage to salvage was some of the finest tasting ever to be grown in water. How can I reproduce this without the rot?

Bud Spleefman · 01-21-2011, 01:12 AM

I don't think it's possible to pull a succesful grow in DWC using ONLY organics.... you might get away with a little bit, and then end up having to run a sterile res, but the whole way through?????? You'd be growing Kimchee or some shit in there!

I've been running the H&G line, in my U.C. the whole lineup, and nothing else, and have not had to sterilize, (bleach or H2O2) and with only 21 days left, it's looking good to make it the whole way through. I've only changed the nutes out once, halfway through, and they still looked pretty good, not very cloudy, at all...... since I've got those tomato cages on there, I haven't even looked at the roots in about a month, but the plants look great, so the roots must still be there.

I can't vouch for the taste, cause I haven't tasted it, yet..... it better be good because my Coco stuff tastes pretty good.... I may have a U.C. for sale on Craigslist!

Space Case · 01-21-2011, 01:31 AM

Well, 100% purely organic without any salts....I think its doable, but you will have seriously piss poor yields. The microbes won't be active enough in water to produce the minerals the plants need. However, I do feel that various ewc/compost teas, bone meals, blood meals, and guano's can provide sufficient enough N-P-K, with possibly some ocean/sea derived salts here and there.

I think shooting for flavor without much of a sacrifice in yield is the trick! You can still use salt ferts for the most part, but add organics with 2 goals in mind:

1) Biologically maintain and clean your reservoir to ward off bad growth (root rot, etc), reducing the need for res changes

2) Biologically provide the plants with natural and/or organic sources of trace elements when they need it. Trace minerals (particularly sulfur) are very important in flavonoid & terpene production! Basically boost your micronute/trace elements via live microbial activity!

BrainSellz · 01-22-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space Case

And while were at it, anyone running a purely organic line out of the bottle?

running Pure Vida grow and bloom.....

Space Case · 01-26-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSellz

running Pure Vida grow and bloom.....

Nice! Are you in UC or RDWC? How pH stable is it? Do you have to amend it with micro/trace nutrients?

I've been looking at the Pure Vida stuff, it keeps coming up!

Scrogerman · 01-26-2011, 12:57 PM

Have a look at Bio Filters man! commercial hydro farmers use them running hydro organic. Some hobby growers use them now too. May help your case bra, I dont think its doable with compost teas, Guanos etc, but if you find out different let me know. I doubt your gonna beat your Coco grown bud on flavour anyway, UC & DWC is for non-organic imo, they dont mix well as far as i know.
Certain elements cannot be organic anyway, GratfulH3ad will attest to that, check his Sig out! & some of his threads! Potassium in nature occurs only as ionic salt. Same goes for N & P & a load of other elements(their not organic), ok you can use organic sources(ie-decomposing matter etc) but contained elemental minneral/salts cannot be organic.
Shit ive opened a can of worms now lol!

Scrogerman · 01-26-2011, 01:44 PM

This Thread may help, V-Intersting read!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=5669

(posts #1, #2 & #3 especially)

Space Case · 01-26-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrogerman

Have a look at Bio Filters man! commercial hydro farmers use them running hydro organic. Some hobby growers use them now too. May help your case bra, I dont think its doable with compost teas, Guanos etc, but if you find out different let me know. I doubt your gonna beat your Coco grown bud on flavour anyway, UC & DWC is for non-organic imo, they dont mix well as far as i know.
Certain elements cannot be organic anyway, GratfulH3ad will attest to that, check his Sig out! & some of his threads! Potassium in nature occurs only as ionic salt. Same goes for N & P & a load of other elements(their not organic), ok you can use organic sources(ie-decomposing matter etc) but contained elemental minneral/salts cannot be organic.
Shit ive opened a can of worms now lol!

LOL, well yes, I know plenty about plant uptake in organics vs synthetics. However, plenty of live microbials are used in some hydro setups with the purpose of stabilizing pH, root zone, vigor, health, etc.

However, yes there are some composts teas and guanos that can assist in hydro, even with NPKs. Gotta keep tinkering!

BTW, I am experiments with 1 res that has EWC and Guano in it...and that is the only res that doesn't have the slime right now after a lengthy power outage!

Scrogerman · 01-26-2011, 06:46 PM

trying to keep a balance of healthy active microbes/bacteria is the one, quite difficult to do without stuff like bio-filters imo like i said! Good Luck bro, let us know how you get on!

have you a thread documenting your experiments?

playing with fire, id have to know exactly how to do this before id go sticking plants in it!

What type of Slime are we talking about? most aint good, i assume you mean nasty slime/pathogenic?

Space Case · 01-26-2011, 08:51 PM

The slime I am battling is Brown Algae. I have defeated many types of root rot, including Brown Algae, in the past. I no longer document anything on icmag due to my history here. I'm only here for knowledge and conversation. You can PM me or look me up on other canna-sites under my previous handle.

I have gone damn near 1 year running a live biological res in RDWC without any hiccups, rot, etc and doing quite well! This last 8 hour power outage changed that, and it just so happen to coincide with a blizzard, so my room temps got down to the 40-50s, as well as my root zone temps. My pH is rising quickly, something like 1.5 points in 24 hours, a symptom of brown algae. If it were root rot (fungal or bacterial), my pH would be dropping like crazy, down to like 3.5-4.5. The plants are shooting new white roots, but the algae has taken hold on the inside of the net basket, so some kind of dunk is necessary.

I would rather not go the sterile route if I don't have to, but the system hit hardest with the slime is going to receive either a bleach or physan treatment, then rinsed, and then re-inoculated with beneficials.

Sorry If I came off ignorant to the subject, quite the contrary, I am actually very well versed in the subject, just lazy to type all the details....

01-26-2011, 12:57 PM	#6
Scrogerman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,698	Have a look at Bio Filters man! commercial hydro farmers use them running hydro organic. Some hobby growers use them now too. May help your case bra, I dont think its doable with compost teas, Guanos etc, but if you find out different let me know. I doubt your gonna beat your Coco grown bud on flavour anyway, UC & DWC is for non-organic imo, they dont mix well as far as i know. Certain elements cannot be organic anyway, GratfulH3ad will attest to that, check his Sig out! & some of his threads! Potassium in nature occurs only as ionic salt. Same goes for N & P & a load of other elements(their not organic), ok you can use organic sources(ie-decomposing matter etc) but contained elemental minneral/salts cannot be organic. Shit ive opened a can of worms now lol! __________________ 'The Lights are on and I'm Always Home' Last edited by Scrogerman; 01-26-2011 at 01:47 PM..
	Quote

01-26-2011, 01:44 PM	#7
Scrogerman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,698	This Thread may help, V-Intersting read! https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=5669 (posts #1, #2 & #3 especially) __________________ 'The Lights are on and I'm Always Home'
	Quote

01-26-2011, 06:46 PM	#9
Scrogerman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,698	trying to keep a balance of healthy active microbes/bacteria is the one, quite difficult to do without stuff like bio-filters imo like i said! Good Luck bro, let us know how you get on! have you a thread documenting your experiments? playing with fire, id have to know exactly how to do this before id go sticking plants in it! What type of Slime are we talking about? most aint good, i assume you mean nasty slime/pathogenic? __________________ 'The Lights are on and I'm Always Home'
	Quote

01-20-2011, 09:45 PM	#1
Space Case Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 909	UC/RDWC Flavor and Organics? Okay, admit it you undercurrent fiends. Your flavor is never 100% using ANY commercial nutes, especially when running a sterile res. Anyone run pure organics in their UC's? And I don't mean shit out of a bottle, I mean EWC teas, guanos, etc. I was told that most kelp products aren't refined enough for UC/DWC because they carry algae and will cause blooms. Also, most sugar/carb sources will also encourage the wrong microbial growth, so tend to stay away from those. But it seems you could do a full run with just compost and ewc teas, combined with various types of guanos. Maybe amend here and there with some cal mag supplements (I need to order some pure Calcium Oxide), and some kind of root zone product, i.e. Root Excel, Aquashield, etc. Anyone running UC/DWC without the store bought bottles? Organic? Semi-organic? And while were at it, anyone running a purely organic line out of the bottle? Such as Age Old or Earth Juice? I read about someone using Earth Nectar & Earth Ambrosia in their UC...how did that work out? I have done some runs in the past using various sources of kelp, compost teas, and molasses, but it ended in root rotness. But the bud I did manage to salvage was some of the finest tasting ever to be grown in water. How can I reproduce this without the rot? __________________ “Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?” ― Douglas Adams
	Quote

01-21-2011, 01:12 AM	#2
Bud Spleefman Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 462	I don't think it's possible to pull a succesful grow in DWC using ONLY organics.... you might get away with a little bit, and then end up having to run a sterile res, but the whole way through?????? You'd be growing Kimchee or some shit in there! I've been running the H&G line, in my U.C. the whole lineup, and nothing else, and have not had to sterilize, (bleach or H2O2) and with only 21 days left, it's looking good to make it the whole way through. I've only changed the nutes out once, halfway through, and they still looked pretty good, not very cloudy, at all...... since I've got those tomato cages on there, I haven't even looked at the roots in about a month, but the plants look great, so the roots must still be there. I can't vouch for the taste, cause I haven't tasted it, yet..... it better be good because my Coco stuff tastes pretty good.... I may have a U.C. for sale on Craigslist!
	Quote

01-21-2011, 01:31 AM	#3
Space Case Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 909	Well, 100% purely organic without any salts....I think its doable, but you will have seriously piss poor yields. The microbes won't be active enough in water to produce the minerals the plants need. However, I do feel that various ewc/compost teas, bone meals, blood meals, and guano's can provide sufficient enough N-P-K, with possibly some ocean/sea derived salts here and there. I think shooting for flavor without much of a sacrifice in yield is the trick! You can still use salt ferts for the most part, but add organics with 2 goals in mind: 1) Biologically maintain and clean your reservoir to ward off bad growth (root rot, etc), reducing the need for res changes 2) Biologically provide the plants with natural and/or organic sources of trace elements when they need it. Trace minerals (particularly sulfur) are very important in flavonoid & terpene production! Basically boost your micronute/trace elements via live microbial activity! __________________ “Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?” ― Douglas Adams
	Quote

01-26-2011, 08:51 PM	#10
Space Case Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 909	The slime I am battling is Brown Algae. I have defeated many types of root rot, including Brown Algae, in the past. I no longer document anything on icmag due to my history here. I'm only here for knowledge and conversation. You can PM me or look me up on other canna-sites under my previous handle. I have gone damn near 1 year running a live biological res in RDWC without any hiccups, rot, etc and doing quite well! This last 8 hour power outage changed that, and it just so happen to coincide with a blizzard, so my room temps got down to the 40-50s, as well as my root zone temps. My pH is rising quickly, something like 1.5 points in 24 hours, a symptom of brown algae. If it were root rot (fungal or bacterial), my pH would be dropping like crazy, down to like 3.5-4.5. The plants are shooting new white roots, but the algae has taken hold on the inside of the net basket, so some kind of dunk is necessary. I would rather not go the sterile route if I don't have to, but the system hit hardest with the slime is going to receive either a bleach or physan treatment, then rinsed, and then re-inoculated with beneficials. Sorry If I came off ignorant to the subject, quite the contrary, I am actually very well versed in the subject, just lazy to type all the details....
	Quote