Freedom Of Information Act...unfairly denied?? - Security & Legal Issues - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

01-20-2006, 04:26 PM

grrrr..so angry

got a traffic ticket a while ago and part of it was for going too fast at the scene of an accident (unrelated to me, and happened a few minutes prior to my ticket). the accident wasnt even evident and i have a feeling the cops are bullshitting. they say there was an ambulance there but there was not

i have been trying for months to get the formal police report for the accident in hopes that it may explain whether or not an ambulance is called

the cops tell me no such report exists. i feel they are bullshitting because i know they write up reports for every criminal incident and every car accident.

im about to go down there and tell them im entitled to this information by the freedom of information act but i want to make sure i actually am. if they deny me one more time im going to court and filing a motion for discovery...but i shouldnt even have to do so - this is PUBLIC INFORMATION.

by denying me public information arent the cops obstructing justice/obstructing due process for me?????

Verite · 01-21-2006, 01:37 AM

Most tickets come complete with instructions on them. You either pay the ticket or you call the number on it to inquire about scheduling a court appointment. If there was more than one cop there and will testify and you have zero witnesses youre basically screwed. If you did blaze by a po-po on the side of the road it doesnt matter if there was an ambulance called or not, its still the scene of an accident.

01-21-2006, 01:46 AM

this has nothing to do with 'blazing'

if i can prove there was no ambulance through a police report it proves the cops lie
the scene of the accident was not evident and the cops lied about the incident still going on at the time of my ticket. sure, it was the scene of an accident 20 mins prior but not when i got my ticket - it was allll cleaned up.

tickets do come with instructions and i have been through the magistrate hearing. i've filed a motion for discovery because the cops ignored my letters and calls for 7 months forcing me to file 2 motions to extend the date. this should actually work to my benefit because many would consider this obstruction of due process in a civil case resulting in a waste of my time, your tax $$, and the courts.

i now have the upcoming judicial trial and i am entitled to all public information because i am allowed due process in preparing my case and i am trying to get it. i may be forced to file a 2nd motion for discovery to obtain this report but was hoping i could get it from the cops (as i should be able to legally as far as i know) so i wouldnt have to make the trip to court AGAIN.

Verite · 01-21-2006, 02:11 AM

I hope you win since they can charge you for court costs if you lose. Im guessing those are a bit more than the cost of the ticket.

01-21-2006, 03:31 AM

no thats only if you sue and lose or counter a sue and lose i think. im not infront of a jury just me and the police prosecutor and a judge. you are allowed to appeal a magistrate's decisionto get a hearing infront of a judge. after that, the only way you can bring an appeal forth is by proving the judge did something procedurally wrong when deciding the case

omega7 · 02-06-2006, 04:15 AM

If you go to court and plea or lose you are charged courts costs...It could be as much as 40 something %. This is in my state but it might be similiar everywhere else. Your best bet is to spend like 300-500 on a good traffic lawyer and he will make the cop look like a moron in court. Cops often charge people with the wrong charge for what actually happened making it easier to beat it. Plus if the cops were lying they probably wont show up to save themselves time and trouble. There might not have been a repot either. Cops take notes on the backs of their ticket copies or in their pads so that way if you do fight it they have something to study if it goes to court. they always request and read them right before court. One more thing I just remembered that if you take it to court than you will be charged for and pay the fine for the exact speed they got you at if you were clocked by radar(not saying this is what happened to you), not by whatever deal they gave you on the scene(where they drop it to the minimum speed so you pay less fine and hopefully dont fight it).

weener · 02-08-2006, 11:07 PM

Hopefully the cop(s) just wont show up. It has been my experience that w/ traffic violations, the cops wont show up after a reschedule or two as they have(or atleast should) better things to do than to appear at traffic court hearing. A buddy of mine got a reckless driving ticket and beat it cuz he rescheduled two weeks before the appointment and set the date for over two months after the original date, the cop never showed and he was let off w/ out so much as a warning. Good luck

NightFire · 02-10-2006, 09:34 PM

Usually the only time a cop doesn't show up for court is if they are on vacation. I have some friends that are Sheriff, and a couple that are local. They get extra pay for going to court. That's for the US, it sounds like this happened in Canada.

Ron Bennett · 02-10-2006, 11:47 PM

Did the officer state the clocked / estimated speed on the ticket?

Or is the ticket for something simply like "driving too fast for conditions", etc?

You say "part of it was for going too fast at the scene of an accident" ... so what was the other part?

Anyways, see if there have been citizen complaints filed against the officer who wrote the ticket; has he been disciplined in the past for violating procedures, etc...

When a traffic ticket is for something subjective like "driving too fast for conditions", it will often come down to who the Judge believes more ... the police or you...

If you're a clean-cut business person with plenty of connections, you have a decent chance; though honestly, in such instances the officer often won't even bother writing the ticket to begin with ...

Otherwise, you need to have a lot of facts to question the officer's credibility.

You're doing the right thing fighting, since many traffic tickets are somewhat questionable, but be prepared to pay the consequences, in particular court costs, etc if you lose.

Ron

p.s. nightfire may be on to something ... see if you can find out when he's going on vacation and keep postponing it until then LOL!

roorer · 02-11-2006, 10:53 PM

Heres what you do. You subpoena the Police Department's custodian of records for "all and any documents or reports relating to an accident at (X) location on (X) date at (X) time regarding (X) officers. These documents are pertinent to your case for (X) reasons and help prove your case for (X) reasons."

A subpoena is a Court Order for someone to appear in court and produce certain documents. Disobedience of a subpoena is Contempt of Court and can be punished by six months in jail and $1000 fine in most states. You can also collect $500 in damages in some states if someone disobeys your subpeona and you lose your case because of it.

01-20-2006, 04:26 PM	#1
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Freedom Of Information Act...unfairly denied?? grrrr..so angry got a traffic ticket a while ago and part of it was for going too fast at the scene of an accident (unrelated to me, and happened a few minutes prior to my ticket). the accident wasnt even evident and i have a feeling the cops are bullshitting. they say there was an ambulance there but there was not i have been trying for months to get the formal police report for the accident in hopes that it may explain whether or not an ambulance is called the cops tell me no such report exists. i feel they are bullshitting because i know they write up reports for every criminal incident and every car accident. im about to go down there and tell them im entitled to this information by the freedom of information act but i want to make sure i actually am. if they deny me one more time im going to court and filing a motion for discovery...but i shouldnt even have to do so - this is PUBLIC INFORMATION. by denying me public information arent the cops obstructing justice/obstructing due process for me?????
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01-21-2006, 01:37 AM	#2
Verite My little pony.. my little pony Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,750	Most tickets come complete with instructions on them. You either pay the ticket or you call the number on it to inquire about scheduling a court appointment. If there was more than one cop there and will testify and you have zero witnesses youre basically screwed. If you did blaze by a po-po on the side of the road it doesnt matter if there was an ambulance called or not, its still the scene of an accident. __________________ Strains by Verite .......................... Holy Grail Intro, Seeds at Seebay, Private Breeders Orange Diesel Intro, Seeds now at Seedbay
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01-21-2006, 01:46 AM	#3
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	this has nothing to do with 'blazing' if i can prove there was no ambulance through a police report it proves the cops lie the scene of the accident was not evident and the cops lied about the incident still going on at the time of my ticket. sure, it was the scene of an accident 20 mins prior but not when i got my ticket - it was allll cleaned up. tickets do come with instructions and i have been through the magistrate hearing. i've filed a motion for discovery because the cops ignored my letters and calls for 7 months forcing me to file 2 motions to extend the date. this should actually work to my benefit because many would consider this obstruction of due process in a civil case resulting in a waste of my time, your tax $$, and the courts. i now have the upcoming judicial trial and i am entitled to all public information because i am allowed due process in preparing my case and i am trying to get it. i may be forced to file a 2nd motion for discovery to obtain this report but was hoping i could get it from the cops (as i should be able to legally as far as i know) so i wouldnt have to make the trip to court AGAIN. Last edited by i enjoy thc; 01-21-2006 at 01:48 AM..
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01-21-2006, 02:11 AM	#4
Verite My little pony.. my little pony Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,750	I hope you win since they can charge you for court costs if you lose. Im guessing those are a bit more than the cost of the ticket. __________________ Strains by Verite .......................... Holy Grail Intro, Seeds at Seebay, Private Breeders Orange Diesel Intro, Seeds now at Seedbay
	Quote

01-21-2006, 03:31 AM	#5
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	no thats only if you sue and lose or counter a sue and lose i think. im not infront of a jury just me and the police prosecutor and a judge. you are allowed to appeal a magistrate's decisionto get a hearing infront of a judge. after that, the only way you can bring an appeal forth is by proving the judge did something procedurally wrong when deciding the case Last edited by i enjoy thc; 01-21-2006 at 03:34 AM..
	Quote

02-06-2006, 04:15 AM	#6
omega7 Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 380	If you go to court and plea or lose you are charged courts costs...It could be as much as 40 something %. This is in my state but it might be similiar everywhere else. Your best bet is to spend like 300-500 on a good traffic lawyer and he will make the cop look like a moron in court. Cops often charge people with the wrong charge for what actually happened making it easier to beat it. Plus if the cops were lying they probably wont show up to save themselves time and trouble. There might not have been a repot either. Cops take notes on the backs of their ticket copies or in their pads so that way if you do fight it they have something to study if it goes to court. they always request and read them right before court. One more thing I just remembered that if you take it to court than you will be charged for and pay the fine for the exact speed they got you at if you were clocked by radar(not saying this is what happened to you), not by whatever deal they gave you on the scene(where they drop it to the minimum speed so you pay less fine and hopefully dont fight it).
	Quote

02-08-2006, 11:07 PM	#7
weener Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Rift Posts: 51	Hopefully the cop(s) just wont show up. It has been my experience that w/ traffic violations, the cops wont show up after a reschedule or two as they have(or atleast should) better things to do than to appear at traffic court hearing. A buddy of mine got a reckless driving ticket and beat it cuz he rescheduled two weeks before the appointment and set the date for over two months after the original date, the cop never showed and he was let off w/ out so much as a warning. Good luck __________________ "For its not what you are, how you've come to be; all this will end, and begin again"
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02-10-2006, 09:34 PM	#8
NightFire Eclectic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 233	Usually the only time a cop doesn't show up for court is if they are on vacation. I have some friends that are Sheriff, and a couple that are local. They get extra pay for going to court. That's for the US, it sounds like this happened in Canada.
	Quote

02-10-2006, 11:47 PM	#9
Ron Bennett New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21	Did the officer state the clocked / estimated speed on the ticket? Or is the ticket for something simply like "driving too fast for conditions", etc? You say "part of it was for going too fast at the scene of an accident" ... so what was the other part? Anyways, see if there have been citizen complaints filed against the officer who wrote the ticket; has he been disciplined in the past for violating procedures, etc... When a traffic ticket is for something subjective like "driving too fast for conditions", it will often come down to who the Judge believes more ... the police or you... If you're a clean-cut business person with plenty of connections, you have a decent chance; though honestly, in such instances the officer often won't even bother writing the ticket to begin with ... Otherwise, you need to have a lot of facts to question the officer's credibility. You're doing the right thing fighting, since many traffic tickets are somewhat questionable, but be prepared to pay the consequences, in particular court costs, etc if you lose. Ron p.s. nightfire may be on to something ... see if you can find out when he's going on vacation and keep postponing it until then LOL!
	Quote

02-11-2006, 10:53 PM	#10
roorer Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 88	Heres what you do. You subpoena the Police Department's custodian of records for "all and any documents or reports relating to an accident at (X) location on (X) date at (X) time regarding (X) officers. These documents are pertinent to your case for (X) reasons and help prove your case for (X) reasons." A subpoena is a Court Order for someone to appear in court and produce certain documents. Disobedience of a subpoena is Contempt of Court and can be punished by six months in jail and $1000 fine in most states. You can also collect $500 in damages in some states if someone disobeys your subpeona and you lose your case because of it.
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