Sureme Court Allows Utility cooperation without a warrant - Canada - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

Chimera · 11-26-2010, 04:37 AM

This is a copy of this thread for the canadian growers and ICMAG members that make up this community.... who may wish to discuss this article.

Supreme Court allows police to enlist electricity firm in grow-op case

Read more: https://www.canada.com/Supreme+Court+...#ixzz16DU5eySW

OTTAWA — Police did not overstep their powers when they asked a Calgary electricity company to effectively spy on one of its customers by installing a special tracking device to determine if he was growing marijuana, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled Wednesday.

In a 7-2 decision, the court overturned an earlier ruling in the Alberta Court of Appeal, which had concluded that "co-opting" the power company to install a "digital recording ammeter" (DRA) amounted to spying on his home and breached the constitutional guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure.

"The DRA is a technique that reveals nothing about the intimate or core personal activities of the occupants," wrote Supreme Court Justice Marie Deschamps. "It reveals nothing but one particular piece of information: the consumption of electricity."

The ruling restores Daniel Gomboc's conviction for growing and selling pot.

The main issue before the Supreme Court was whether it violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms for third-party service providers to turn over information without police securing a judge's approval.

Calgary police, while investigating another matter in Gomboc's neighbourhood in 2004, detected the smell of a marijuana grow operation and noticed condensation on his windows and moisture pouring from ice-caked vents. Unlike other homes nearby, there was no snow on his roof.

The police then asked the local electricity company, Enmax, to install a DRA to obtain a detailed graph printout of five days of power consumption at Gomboc's home. The officers used the revealing information to obtain a search warrant.

Police seized 165 kilograms of bulk marijuana and another 206 grams of processed, bagged marijuana, and Gomboc was later convicted of growing and trafficking pot.

The ruling is in keeping with at least two other decisions in the Supreme Court dealing with police powers and privacy rights.

The court ruled last December that there's no right to privacy of your curbside garbage and, in 2004, the bench found that it is not unconstitutional for police to conduct aerial "infra-red" searches, using heat detectors to root out power consumption in a suspicious home.

In its 2009 decision siding with Gomboc, the Alberta appeal court ordered a new trial, ruling that the power utility should not have been "co-opted" by police to conduct "a form of surreptitious electric surveillance" of an individual.

"I expect that the reasonable, informed citizen would be gravely concerned, and would object to the state being allowed to use a utility to spy on a homeowner in this way," the appeal court said in a split 2-1 ruling.

The appeal court also concluded that tapping electrical meters is "more intrusive and more revealing" than using infra-red aerial surveillance because meters can zero in on hour-by-hour use. Marijuana is typically grown indoors using light cycles of 12-18 hours, the court said.

~~~~~~~
Do what's right mod... allow us mere peons to discuss the laws that affect us as growers!

VagPuncher · 11-26-2010, 04:56 AM

Is this just in Alberta so far?

JJScorpio · 11-26-2010, 04:56 AM

Let me explain something right now greenmango. I'm done listening to this bullshit. You wanna keep the shit going, you won't be here. Nothing I dislike more than someone that tries to instigate more bullshit when it's over.

If it's so bad here let me know and I'll help you out......

Chimera · 11-26-2010, 05:02 AM

Canadian Supreme court rulings apply to all provinces and territories.

Only in Alberta can you ask of your Utility companies to respect your privacy with them, and not release details of your account to anyone. This was all laid out clearly in one of the threads that was deleted... but it was deleted- the proverbial baby being thrown out with the bathwater.

It's a shame because this info really needs to be known... but it appears to violate the tou... thus the quandry

I tried to repost this information, but it was removed by the moderator... nobody is sure why... apparently we must ask the site owner if we can discuss this case.

11-26-2010, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJScorpio

Let me explain something right now greenmango. I'm done listening to this bullshit. You wanna keep the shit going, you won't be here. Nothing I dislike more than someone that tries to instigate more bullshit when it's over.

If it's so bad here let me know and I'll help you out......

I am not trying to instigate anything, were you even around to read what happened before the posts got deleted?

How did it violate TOU? Am I missing something?

I was honestly just shocked to see a vendor treated that way by other vendor/mods here...

junior_grower · 11-26-2010, 05:17 AM

Chimera thanks man. This post applies to any Canadian that grows, a letter sent signature required to your utility provider, stating you want all information kept confidential, and not to be released without written consent, should serve to prevent this from happening according to a legal type I spoke to today.

Chimera · 11-26-2010, 05:21 AM

j_g... it is my understanding that only such an action would be available to Albertans. Only Alberta (apparently) has a law wherein a utility customer can request such privacy 'sanctity' from the utility provider.

I highly doubt any such request from a non-Alberta resident would have any impact.... it might potentially even set off an alarm bell in some situations.

JJScorpio · 11-26-2010, 05:27 AM

I'm well aware of what happened. And I'm not pleased.

First of all KG got abused for god knows what for, which seems to be happening a lot lately. Then I saw that DG removed some links, which I don't know what they were, and then I read Chimera getting very verbally abusive stating it was a conflict of interest, making some comment about seed hack, amongst other things. I really don't appreciate people being spoken to that way, especially the mods. And I wouldn't suggest it be done again.......

When Gypsy gets on and sees what's been said, he's not going to be very happy. That I can guarantee you all. It's one thing to disagree, it's another thing to be verbally abusive. I should handle it myself right now but under the circumstances I think it deserves Gypsys attention.....

11-26-2010, 05:29 AM

It will likely only take one person who isn't growing dope to sue them and get this changed..

Back to the other matter.. JJ .. I think people are just genuinely bummed that so many threads and good info are getting deleted by karmagirl for breaching TOU when other threads are left alone that have many more violations. Not saying anyone is right or wrong..

I know you have to look out for each other and the nature of the site .. people just need to cool off

Chimera · 11-26-2010, 05:32 AM

KG was being abused... in which universe did that happen?!?!

Don't participate in a discussion unless you can handle being asked to back up your evidence. I guess if you are the mod, you can just go back and delete your post... so that way everyone else is to blame.

Who's derailing this thread now JJ? Is your post on topic? Or does it violate the offtopic portion of the tou?

Will any version of tis thread going to be open for discussion by members without the constant heavy handed approach from the mods?

11-26-2010, 04:37 AM	#1
Chimera Genetic Resource Management Join Date: May 2006 Location: In vitro Posts: 2,383	Sureme Court Allows Utility cooperation without a warrant This is a copy of this thread for the canadian growers and ICMAG members that make up this community.... who may wish to discuss this article. Supreme Court allows police to enlist electricity firm in grow-op case Read more: https://www.canada.com/Supreme+Court+...#ixzz16DU5eySW OTTAWA — Police did not overstep their powers when they asked a Calgary electricity company to effectively spy on one of its customers by installing a special tracking device to determine if he was growing marijuana, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled Wednesday. In a 7-2 decision, the court overturned an earlier ruling in the Alberta Court of Appeal, which had concluded that "co-opting" the power company to install a "digital recording ammeter" (DRA) amounted to spying on his home and breached the constitutional guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure. "The DRA is a technique that reveals nothing about the intimate or core personal activities of the occupants," wrote Supreme Court Justice Marie Deschamps. "It reveals nothing but one particular piece of information: the consumption of electricity." The ruling restores Daniel Gomboc's conviction for growing and selling pot. The main issue before the Supreme Court was whether it violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms for third-party service providers to turn over information without police securing a judge's approval. Calgary police, while investigating another matter in Gomboc's neighbourhood in 2004, detected the smell of a marijuana grow operation and noticed condensation on his windows and moisture pouring from ice-caked vents. Unlike other homes nearby, there was no snow on his roof. The police then asked the local electricity company, Enmax, to install a DRA to obtain a detailed graph printout of five days of power consumption at Gomboc's home. The officers used the revealing information to obtain a search warrant. Police seized 165 kilograms of bulk marijuana and another 206 grams of processed, bagged marijuana, and Gomboc was later convicted of growing and trafficking pot. The ruling is in keeping with at least two other decisions in the Supreme Court dealing with police powers and privacy rights. The court ruled last December that there's no right to privacy of your curbside garbage and, in 2004, the bench found that it is not unconstitutional for police to conduct aerial "infra-red" searches, using heat detectors to root out power consumption in a suspicious home. In its 2009 decision siding with Gomboc, the Alberta appeal court ordered a new trial, ruling that the power utility should not have been "co-opted" by police to conduct "a form of surreptitious electric surveillance" of an individual. "I expect that the reasonable, informed citizen would be gravely concerned, and would object to the state being allowed to use a utility to spy on a homeowner in this way," the appeal court said in a split 2-1 ruling. The appeal court also concluded that tapping electrical meters is "more intrusive and more revealing" than using infra-red aerial surveillance because meters can zero in on hour-by-hour use. Marijuana is typically grown indoors using light cycles of 12-18 hours, the court said. ~~~~~~~ Do what's right mod... allow us mere peons to discuss the laws that affect us as growers! __________________ More Agriculture Less Agro-Culture
	Quote

11-26-2010, 04:56 AM	#3
JJScorpio Thunderstruck Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 7,452	Let me explain something right now greenmango. I'm done listening to this bullshit. You wanna keep the shit going, you won't be here. Nothing I dislike more than someone that tries to instigate more bullshit when it's over. If it's so bad here let me know and I'll help you out...... __________________ JJScorpio is a fictional name I use on marijuana forums only. All posts and pictures are fictional. Any other use of this name, in any other forums or chatrooms, will be someone other than myself.
	Quote

11-26-2010, 05:02 AM	#4
Chimera Genetic Resource Management Join Date: May 2006 Location: In vitro Posts: 2,383	Canadian Supreme court rulings apply to all provinces and territories. Only in Alberta can you ask of your Utility companies to respect your privacy with them, and not release details of your account to anyone. This was all laid out clearly in one of the threads that was deleted... but it was deleted- the proverbial baby being thrown out with the bathwater. It's a shame because this info really needs to be known... but it appears to violate the tou... thus the quandry I tried to repost this information, but it was removed by the moderator... nobody is sure why... apparently we must ask the site owner if we can discuss this case. __________________ More Agriculture Less Agro-Culture
	Quote

11-26-2010, 05:17 AM	#6
junior_grower Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 905	Chimera thanks man. This post applies to any Canadian that grows, a letter sent signature required to your utility provider, stating you want all information kept confidential, and not to be released without written consent, should serve to prevent this from happening according to a legal type I spoke to today. __________________ another successful out door year at 52*north, beat bugs, the wettest season in memory, and a early frost. Auto flowers have been a blast
	Quote

11-26-2010, 05:21 AM	#7
Chimera Genetic Resource Management Join Date: May 2006 Location: In vitro Posts: 2,383	j_g... it is my understanding that only such an action would be available to Albertans. Only Alberta (apparently) has a law wherein a utility customer can request such privacy 'sanctity' from the utility provider. I highly doubt any such request from a non-Alberta resident would have any impact.... it might potentially even set off an alarm bell in some situations. __________________ More Agriculture Less Agro-Culture
	Quote

11-26-2010, 04:56 AM	#2
VagPuncher Balls Deep!! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North End, Baii. Posts: 3,155	Is this just in Alberta so far?
	Quote

11-26-2010, 05:27 AM	#8
JJScorpio Thunderstruck Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 7,452	I'm well aware of what happened. And I'm not pleased. First of all KG got abused for god knows what for, which seems to be happening a lot lately. Then I saw that DG removed some links, which I don't know what they were, and then I read Chimera getting very verbally abusive stating it was a conflict of interest, making some comment about seed hack, amongst other things. I really don't appreciate people being spoken to that way, especially the mods. And I wouldn't suggest it be done again....... When Gypsy gets on and sees what's been said, he's not going to be very happy. That I can guarantee you all. It's one thing to disagree, it's another thing to be verbally abusive. I should handle it myself right now but under the circumstances I think it deserves Gypsys attention..... __________________ JJScorpio is a fictional name I use on marijuana forums only. All posts and pictures are fictional. Any other use of this name, in any other forums or chatrooms, will be someone other than myself.
	Quote

11-26-2010, 05:29 AM	#9
Guest 150314 Guest Posts: n/a	It will likely only take one person who isn't growing dope to sue them and get this changed.. Back to the other matter.. JJ .. I think people are just genuinely bummed that so many threads and good info are getting deleted by karmagirl for breaching TOU when other threads are left alone that have many more violations. Not saying anyone is right or wrong.. I know you have to look out for each other and the nature of the site .. people just need to cool off
	Quote 1 members found this post helpful.

11-26-2010, 05:32 AM	#10
Chimera Genetic Resource Management Join Date: May 2006 Location: In vitro Posts: 2,383	KG was being abused... in which universe did that happen?!?! Don't participate in a discussion unless you can handle being asked to back up your evidence. I guess if you are the mod, you can just go back and delete your post... so that way everyone else is to blame. Who's derailing this thread now JJ? Is your post on topic? Or does it violate the offtopic portion of the tou? Will any version of tis thread going to be open for discussion by members without the constant heavy handed approach from the mods? __________________ More Agriculture Less Agro-Culture
	Quote