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Prop 19 Post-Mortem: Crunching the Numbers and Pointing the Finger

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fatigues

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Proposition 19 – Crunching the Numbers and Pointing the Finger

There have been a number of articles which have emerged over the last few days in an attempt to explain what happened with Proposition 19 and to explain how and why it failed.

I believe every one of those articles – save one – do not bear up to statistical analysis and are little more than amateur explanations without any basis in evidence.

But before we get to the critical (and highly debatable) answer as to “why”, we need to look at the cold hard data of who. Who voted against Proposition 19? Where do we point the finger?

We have Met the Enemy and it is Us

Turns out, we have met the enemy and it is us.

The demographics which betrayed the movement to legalize marijuana were those who were aged 40-59 years of age. It wasn’t the kids who didn’t turn out to vote in large numbers who are to blame (they never do). It also turns out that it WASN’T the senior citizens who “betrayed” the movement either. Actually, the seniors overperformed!

No. It was those who were aged 40-59 years of age who are responsible for this defeat. The demographic slice of California who have more lifetime experience with marijuana than any other demographic group. Those were the people who were, statistically speaking, the ones who were most likely to have tried pot at least once in their lifetime. As it turns out, those were the people who voted against it. The voting data reveals a very pronounced "Ganja Gap". [See Figure 1.]

Figure 1
picture.php


The Green line represents the incidence of voters by age in America who have tried marijuana at least once in their lifetime. This data is the most up to date data presently available from National Survey on Drug Use and Health for the year 2009.

The Red line represents the voter results for “Yes on Prop 19” by age group as reported in CNN’s Exit Polling data.

[There are a couple of provisos on this data. The confidence in the NSDU data is extremely high, but those figures represent national averages, not California averages. Statistically, there is a regional incidence of greater marijuana use in California vs the overall national number. It’s not a huge difference, but, the incidence of past marijuana use is somewhat higher in California than it is nationally in terms of the overall trend line.]

While the above data is not perfect – the Red line represents a reasonable picture of the electorate and how they voted by age group. The Green Line represents a line over which we can have a very high degree of confidence.

The trend lines show four things:

1. Younger Voters: Younger voters – even those who have never tried marijuana before, are highly in favor of legalization;

2. New Parents in their Mid-Thirties:
Those in their mid-thirties are also inclined to be somewhat more in favor of legalization than their past experience with marijuana would indicate;

3. Seniors/GranParents:
Amazingly, senior citizens in California are far more supportive of legalization than their past experience with marijuana would indicate they should be. Overall, the seniors in California voted far more in favor of marijuana than past use experience would have predicted - and not by just a little. Compared to the national averages in the most recent Gallup Poll, they voted about 2 points higher than in other areas of the country, too. (Regional Differences and liberal political views probably explain this variation). Overall, there were no big surprises here - and to the extent there was a surprise, it was mostly positive.

4. The Parents of Teens:
The traitors - the hypocrites - are those aged 40-59. In particular, those aged 45-55 are the people responsible for the loss of Prop 19. They very clearly did not vote in accordance with their past experiences with marijuana. The data is clear, significant and pronounced.

Why Was There a Ganja Gap?

The $64,000.00 question is WHY. Why did they vote this way?

Without understanding why this demographic voted in the manner that they did so that we can change the message to address this “Ganja Gap”, no vote in 2012, or 2016 or even 2020 is going to succeed. Please understand that the people who voted against Prop 19 and ensured that it failed are not going away. They are going to be voting again in subsequent years. Indeed, they are going to be voting for DECADES and the likelihood that they will vote in each election cycle only increases as time marches on.

I have written elsewhere that legalization was virtually certain in America by 2022. This theory was premised upon the reasonable – and until this week – tenable hypothesis that there was no greater indicator of a person being in favor of legalization than their having smoked marijuana at least once previously in their lifetime. The theory is, with past marijuana use, Reefer Madness type arguments are supplanted by direct and personal evidence to the contrary.

My theory went down to defeat on November 2, 2010 when those adults aged 40-59 voted against their past practices and turned out en masse to “do as I say, not as I did”.

The first person to write on the Ganja Gap that has emerged came from Ryan Grim, who reported on the phenomenon before the vote was even held.

Ryan Grim’s belief is that as the likelihood of a Yes vote appeared on the horizon, those people who were most likely to be parents of teenagers and those in their early 20s? They were the ones who voted "No". Ryan Grim believes that, in the end, it was parents of teens who voted against Prop19 as they approached and saw the “whites of Prop 19’s eyes”, as it were. They flip-flopped dramatically in the middle of October's polling.

I think Ryan Grim's explanation is probably correct. Moreover, I think we are fools to ignore it. It is, far and away, the#1 issue which the legalization movement now faces. We don't need to worry about the parents of elementary and middle school aged kids, nearly as much as we have to worry about the parents of teens and those kids in their college years. Those parents are the target demographic we need to work on.

And let's be clear - the news is bad. Those parents didn’t vote in accordance with their own past experiences and they KNEW that Reefer Madness style arguments are false. Nevertheless, they voted out of fear for their teenaged kids and switched their voting intentions as the likelihood of a victory became clear. If Ryan Grim is right (and there is no reason that I have been able to think of so far which better explains this data) then we need to rethink the strategy here very carefully.

The biggest issue we need to come to grips with is that this problem isn't going away in the near term. There is not much reason to believe that this is a one-time statistical blip. We will face this same phenomenon in 2012 and 2016 (2020? Depends on whether their vote was related to the current age of their kids). This phenomenon probably doesn’t go away. It will potentially stay with us for decades. This is extremely troubling data and no serious activist can ignore it.

If we don’t fix this issue and address it? We’re going to lose next time, too. When the single largest demographic of people who have smoked pot before in their lifetime STILL voted "no"?

We’ve got a serious problem on our hands.
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
I agree with your end-game, but not how you got there--
The 40 to 60 year olds voted against it-- Yes--
But, compounded by "Saving their teens"...they have had to stop smoking years ago...to keep the good jobs they had-- They may not have liked it...but they liked the good $$ better--
Now, they feel that if their kids do the same as them, and don't smoke, focus on what they are doing...(While unwittingly denying themselves something they really liked) then the kids will share the same success--
But...as these same ppl grow older, and their teens turn into 20 somethings..then they will start feeling their age..and getting the aches and pains...and Cancers, to which they may turn back to their old friend, Mary Jane-- That is why you see the increased support among Seniors--
Give it a few years, and that Demo will correct itself...no need for them to "Die Off"--
Just my :2cents:
 

BiG H3rB Tr3E

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c
Veteran
In fact alot of elderly conservatives came out in droves and voted against 19. I hardly doubt the meager amount of dealers/growers had any effect even through all their lies, manipulation and fear mongering. The Associated Press announced 6 out of 10 under 30 voters voted yes on 19, while 7 out of 10 voters over 60 voted against 19.
 

accessndx

♫All I want to do is zoom-a-zoom-zoom-zoom..
Veteran
I'll tell you what killed Prop 19. It's one simple five letter word: GREED.

Too much money is at stake for it to be legalized just yet.

That 40-59 year old crowd is filled with growers in the Emerald Triangle...don't kid yourself about that fact.

Things were "just getting good" with the lax laws, but no legalization. It's practically a license to print money. With legalization comes more regulation, more observation, more scrutinization and ultimately less capitalization.

That spells disaster for practically any movement.

The Titanic had a much better chance.

So I'll leave you with a fitting quote just to toast Prop 19's resurgence and possible resurrection:

It has always seemed strange to me...the things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling, are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest, are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.

John Steinbeck
 

fatigues

Active member
Veteran
In fact it alot of elderly conservatives came out in droves and voted against 19. I hardly doubt the meager amount of dealers/growers had any effect even through all their lies, manipulation and fear mongering. The Associated Press announced 6 out of 10 under 30 voters voted yes on 19, while 7 out of 10 voters over 60 voted against 19.

Yes, I know. The support for Prop 19 among voters over 65 was only 34%.

Point is, that percentage of support is much higher than their previous experience with marijuana would indicate. In other words, ther are voting more because of a liberal viewpoint than they are based on past experience. In that sense, this demographic overperformed.

People don't vote against marijuana simply because they magically turn 65. It's a viewpoint based upon past experiences. Yes, the past experiences of seniors with marijuana is relatively scant. We know this. That explains the vote amongst that voter demographic.

It doesn't explain the vote amongst those who are aged 40-59, however. In that demographic, the Ganja Gap is severe and pronounced.
 

BiG H3rB Tr3E

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c
Veteran
It doesn't explain the vote amongst those who are aged 40-59, however. In that demographic, the Ganja Gap is severe and pronounced.

Ever been to a republican or tea party rally? Thats your age demographic right there. Thats where this opposition came from. It wasn't from the ex-smokers who had kids. It's all the brainwashed republican and teabaggers who had a huge turnout and the majority of these voters are staunch anti-mj advocates. No big suprise there.
 
K

kannubis

Finally a level headed thread about an emotional issue.

Another reason is the firm belief of that part of the generation whose siblings went astray and did so because of the gateway opened by cannabis - even though they go to AA meetings themselves.

It will need to become a non-issue before it becomes legal for recreational or any other type of usage in this country.
 

fatigues

Active member
Veteran
I'll tell you what killed Prop 19. It's one simple five letter word: GREED.

Too much money is at stake for it to be legalized just yet.

That 40-59 year old crowd is filled with growers in the Emerald Triangle...don't kid yourself about that fact.

Ahem.

Look - I don't kid about "facts" - and I don't make them up, either.

Here is the voting breakdown for the Emerald Triangle:

Humboldt County 20130 (No) ; 17702 (Yes) - Total Votes cast = 37832
Mendocino County 10503 (No); 9315 (Yes) Total Votes cast = 19818
Trinity County 3167 (No); 2151 (Yes) Total Votes cast = 5318

In the whole of Emerald Triangle, there were a total of 62,968 votes cast for BOTH No and YES, in total.

62,698 is less than 0.85% of the 7,457,938 total votes cast for Prop 19. While there is no doubt that many people in the Emerald Triangle voted with their wallets, the fact is, statistically speaking - those votes don't amount to a hill of beans. They could all have voted yes - or no - and it would not have moved the state percentages off the final results of 54%-46%.

Sorry. You need to step back, put down the bong and the conspiracy theories and look at the cold hard data with a dispassionate eye. What you believe to be true -- and what the data actually demonstrates is true -- is not the same thing.

Pot dealers and growers did nothing to defeat Prop 19. They didn't do anything to help it, either. Fact is, they had no measurable effect at all, either way.

What defeated Prop 19 was FEAR. Plain and simple. Was it parental fear? The demographics indicate that yes, it was.
 

automation

New member
Here is the voting breakdown for the Emerald Triangle:

Humboldt County 20130 (No) ; 17702 (Yes) - Total Votes cast = 37832
Mendocino County 10503 (No); 9315 (Yes) Total Votes cast = 19818
Trinity County 3167 (No); 2151 (Yes) Total Votes cast = 5318

In the whole of Emerald Triangle, there were a total of 62,968 votes cast for BOTH No and YES, in total.

62,698 is less than 0.85% of the 7,457,938 total votes cast for Prop 19. While there is no doubt that many people in the Emerald Triangle voted with their wallets, the fact is, statistically speaking - those votes don't amount to a hill of beans. They could all have voted yes - or no - and it would not have moved the state percentages off the final results of 54%-46%.
great post fatigues. this statistic should be in your original post by the way, it drives home the point.

maybe it would be beneficial to make a chart of every county in california, sorted by highest percentage of people voting yes at the top, and lowest yes vote % at the bottom. that way people who want to support legalization can run TV ads, or hold meetings and seminars, speeches, etc... and they will know exactly where to start.
 

Forest20

ICmag's Official Black Guy
Veteran
IMO...there is a way to bridge the gap.. Getting a majority of the No vote to not Vote...OK let me explain.... some people believe you have to vote on every amendments and Props when your in the "booth". We need more of them not to cast a yes or no but leave it blank.... I would love to see stats for people who voted but have "No opinion on Prop 19
 
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fatigues

Active member
Veteran
I would love to see stats for people who voted but have "No opinion on Prop 19

Those stats might be teased out later in the year but are not available right now.

FWIW, the percentage of voters who voted on Prop 19 was exceedingly high. More voted on Prop 19 than any other ballot measure on the ballot -- and at least compared to the voters for major party state-wide candidates (Governor and Senate), 350,000-400,000 more voters voted on Prop 19 than voted for Dem/Rep Senate or Governor (third party votes are excluded from this total at this time).

In short, voter engagement on Prop 19 was extremely high.

Now, interestingly, there were two anomolies in terms of polling data prior to November 2, 2010 that were displaced on voting day:

1 - Polling Methodology Matters: Poll by Interviews undercounted the support for Prop 19 by a little less than 4 percentage points. Robopolls were far more accurate.

2- The Undecided Vote Split Evenly: The so called undecided vote on Prop 19 split in accordance with the overall state-wide vote. Historically, in most ballot propositions, the undecided vote breaks dramatically for the "no" side (doesn't matter what Proposition you are talking about).

That was not the case with Prop 19. It was an extremely high profile ballot measure and public engagement, it turns out, was also extremely high. The "don't know/won't say" turned out to be the same as any "undecided" vote for a national or statewide candidate. It broke down the middle. That's an important point to remember for next time.

On a ballot proposition like legalizing marijuana, there really are no real "undecided" votes that differ from the majority of voters when all is said and done.
 
R

rick shaw

It was voter apathy that killed prop 19 not anything else. There are almost 17 million registered voters in California only 7.4 million bothered to vote. Humboldt Co. has almost 78,000 registered voters almost 38,000 bothered to show. The largest block of voters is and always will be the AARP. There were no politicians except Tom Ammiano supporting Prop 19,if you don't have any political support or do not promise any benefits for seniors no support.Why do think savvy political pros kiss major senior ass.
 

BiG H3rB Tr3E

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c
Veteran
So let's buy the seniors. Let's get them some new rocking chairs and a life time supply of butterscotch candy. But seriously, reaching out to the AARP would be tremendous if we could garnish their support.
 

David762

Member
I concur. It would be best to look at all the data.

I concur. It would be best to look at all the data.

And I also agree that fear plays a big part in the "NO" vote --
Fear of impact on their teenagers;
Fear of impact upon society; AND
Fear generated by the Feds & LEOs.

Cannabis has already been decriminalized in California (tip of the hat to the Governor), but that law doesn't take effect until Jan. 01, 2011 IIRC. There was no pronounced threat from LEOs with that law's signing -- only with the run-up to Nov. 02 vote on Prop 19.
We saw local & state LEOs against, plus Cooley (soon CA AG) & Baca (L.A.'s very own Sheriff Joe Araipo), six generations of US Drug Czars (all double-dipping in Prohibition-related industries), and US AG Holder (flip-flop on DEA raids & specter of Fed check-points all over CA). The threat was palatable -- you could almost taste it in the air.

IMHO, Prop 19 needs a major re-write. It should bar out-of-state corporations/mega-corporations from entering the CA marketplace, with perhaps a nod toward stimulating a native industry like CA wineries.

It should also limit the ability of localities & counties from banning / taxing or regulating out of existence small local mom&pop grow operations, even outdoors if in a green-house environment.

Finally, there needs to be greater thought placed in a positive state-wide benefit, which I can see as the creation of a publicly owned not-for-profit state bank, along the lines of the only other current state with their own "central bank", North Dakota. All cannabis / hemp related commercial accounts should be escrowed in the state bank. All home escrow accounts, business taxes, unemployment escrow accounts should be homed in the state bank.

If the Feds (IRS) have problems with accepting Federal taxes derived from state cannabis / hemp industries, then they should be escrowed in the state bank as well. Many regional and national banks with a presence in CA either do not invest 100% in-state, or even refuse cannabis / hemp related accounts.

Let's change the rules of the game in our favor, well beyond the scope of Richard Lee's Prop 19. We have 2 years to get this done, and the clock is ticking ... YES We CANnabis!


great post fatigues. this statistic should be in your original post by the way, it drives home the point.

maybe it would be beneficial to make a chart of every county in california, sorted by highest percentage of people voting yes at the top, and lowest yes vote % at the bottom. that way people who want to support legalization can run TV ads, or hold meetings and seminars, speeches, etc... and they will know exactly where to start.
 

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
So let's buy the seniors. Let's get them some new rocking chairs and a life time supply of butterscotch candy. But seriously, reaching out to the AARP would be tremendous if we could garnish their support.

I can't believe brownies aren't enough! What do you want when you're that damn old? We have your blue pills... we got your ganja... here's a condom... don't break a hip!

Wouldn't you like to have an excuse to not remember anything?

Old must suck... and I thought I was almost there... :D

I don't know what it would take... but it better be black and white Beaver Cleaver style or maybe just rhyme...
 
R

rick shaw

AARP membership eligibility begins at 50. Do you think that is geriatric? Understand this groups of voters learned long ago to band together not divide. The AARP knows this,the Republicans know this. Surprise surprise the Teabager's found a Poli Sci 101 book. How did that work out for them.It was like watching Bush all over again.He didn't care if you laugh or call him names he was planning to win.
 
C

Chamba

It wasn’t the kids who didn’t turn out to vote in large numbers who are to blame (they never do).

Nationwide, only one in ten eligible voters aged 18~30 year old actually bothered to vote in this election ...incredible!
 

cannabudz

Member
Nice graph, good to know who came out and supported prop 19 and who didnt. By the looks of it, the middle aged and old folk where not ready to have a state of stoned Californians building its future. I can't blame them. IMHO if the economy was better and people had good jobs with a sight on the future of California; the bill would have passed.
I think it was a nice idea, but the movement got ahead of its self. Meaning, we started the seeds, but failed to build the grow room first.. I also feel if us Californians are to pass a legalized Cannabis bill, it cant just come from a handful of people. It was a valiant effort on Richard Lee's part to try and get this bill passed (for a handful of people). But I believe Richard Lee found out that its harder to fool people than he had first thought.
When Prop 19 was introduced I did a lot of thinking about it, and talked it over with some old timers that have been in the business for decades.. After many discussions, I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't pass. For one, the current growers: so many growers in California at the moment that would be against it (fiscally). Secondly, the old people are still "brainwashed" from the pot prohibition. Lastly I honestly feel that the new generation of young are leaning more towards "uppers" than "downers". The young could honestly give a shit about Cannabis, unless its at a party and they need to regulate their "rush"...
This leads me to another theory. The Television show "Weeds" on Showtime. I have watched that show "DEFILE" the Cannabis movement. I have been in the Cannabis industry all my life (decades) and have NEVER seen or come across the situations I see unfold in that show.. Human trafficking, Cocaine dealing, Gun running, Killing of Federal Agents, outright Murder, Whoring ones self for a "cannabis dealing" advantage, acquiring false legal documentation, etc.. The list could go on and on... When people watch that show, they get a real Negative outlook on the "Cannabis industry".. So IMHO, if you want "Legalization" of cannabis, then you will have to start by NOT WATCHING that piece of shit show and tell Showtime exactly what they can do with that show, via email... Could you imagine the Old folk voter turn out if the show Weeds didnt have so many negative stigmas attached to it? Actually helped out old people, and showed compassion and understanding....?.... Maybe just maybe they would have voted for a "kind" cannabis law. Who knows..? but one thing is for sure, that show Weeds is a Piece of shit show for the "kind" cause of Cannabis..
If we dont change the outlook on Cannabis and the entire movement (you and me) from what uneducated humans are watching on television, then cannabis will never be legalized.

Cannabudz
 
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