[spurr]

Hey all,

Yet another update to list on page one:



Humates, humus and humic acid:


1. "All about humates"
a must read e-booklet by Dr. Boris V. Levinsky, PhD, a world-renowned colloidal scientist and advanced humic acid researcher
https://www.teravita.com/Humates/HumateIntro.htm

Check out the info about using humates to cause water to obtain the structure of melted water (previously frozen) for watering plants (link)! [i.e. 0.005-0.009% humates by weight; I have tried using 0.01% for ease of use])

Sections in that booklet:

1. Introduction
2. The Theory Behind Humates
3. The Effects of Humates on Crops
4. The Effects of Humates on the Quality of Produce
5. The Protective Effects of Humates
6. The Effects of Humates on Soil
7. The Use of Humates With Chemical Fertilizers
8. The Use of Humates With Organic Fertilizers
9. The Use of Humates in Poultry and Stock Farming
10. Conclusion

2. MYTH: "Only Fulvic Acids are responsible for plant growth stimulation and development, while the Humic Acids are responsible for improving the soil’s structure."
https://www.teravita.com/Realities/Reality%204.htm


3. "The ferments of humic and fulvic acids."
(An article explaining research that shows how humic acids can actually play a vital role that is often attributed only to fulvic acids.)
https://www.teravita.com/Technical%20...ic%20Acids.htm


4. "Are there natural fulvic acids?"
Synopsis by Dr. Boris V. Levinsky, PhD, June 2002.
(A brief synopsis of recent research indicating that fulvic acids are only "created" through extraction techniques and are not naturally present in soil, peat, or lignite.)
https://www.teravita.com/Technical%20...ic%20acids.htm


5. "Humus, Humic Acid and Humates"
https://www.groproorganics.com/images...mic%20Acid.pdf

[spurr]

Originally Posted by 3rdEye

I've heard of people doing both the E. fetida/E. andreii and E. hortensis in one bin. Does anyone have experience with dual worm species bins? Another thought that occurred to me was to keep the worm bins in a veg room area would be a good idea. I am getting ready to get back into vermicomposting and i thought it might potentially be a good idea to incorporate.

MM thanks for that post

I agree, great quote from MM!

I use red worms and Europeans in one bin and I like it. Here is a good read about the topic of Europeans vs. red worms (aka tigers), also info about using them together and their preferences:

I am glad I read this, I was under the impression tigers and red worms were two different kinds of worms, but apparently they are not. However, when I raised so-called tigers on carrot pulp (from a juicer) they did stripe, but according to this article that only happens on paper pulp...odd.

"Worm Facts"
https://www.bucketofworms.co.uk/worms.html

(text was bolded by the original author)

The Dendrobaena Worm, full name Dendrobaena veneta (also known as the European night crawler & Eisenia hortensis), is a very tough and particularly wriggly worm, making them ideal as worms for fishing. They are surface feeders who are sensitive to light. The worms' eagerness to escape light is what makes them squirm so much in daylight. To ensure that you don't find your bucket of worms empty, you need to keep the lid on in the dark.
The Dendrobaena worm has the ability to consume large amounts of vegetable matter, up to half their body weight a day. A sexually mature Dendrobaena weighs anything from 1 to 2.5+ grams.


The temperature range at which the Dendrobaena thrives, that is breeds, is between 12 to 18 degrees Celsius. In warmer temperatures, their metabolism increases so they eat more food in warmer temperatures, up to 25 degrees Celsius. If the temperature raises too much above this they can get very stressed and will die at high temperatures. Therefore if you have a portable wormery it needs to be kept in the shade in the summer months and in the sun in the winter months, or even indoors. Moisture is very important as worms need it to breathe through their skin, although do not drown them. In ideal conditions, a single worm will produce approximately 2 young per week. Cocoons are laid which normally contain 1 worm taking anything from 40 to 128 days to hatch. Dendrobaenas take 57 to 86 days to reach sexual maturity.



You need not worry about any escapees as Dendrobaenas are indigenous to this country and are a friendly lot, posing no threat to any other earthworms.



Recently we have heard a lot of talk about the Tiger worm versus the Dendrobeana worm and their suitability for composting your kitchen scraps. To be fair we have decided to put together some facts about the Tiger worms so that you can make up your minds for yourselves.


Being Dendrobaena worm farmers we know how successful Dendrobaenas are and the hundreds of tonnes of food that they get through on our farm. Being livestock farmers we are also familiar with the Tiger worm which can be found in any partially composted dung/compost heap.


The Tiger worm to a certain degree is a myth, it obviously exists but is not a distinct breed as is commonly thought. The scientific name is Eisenia foetida, also known as Redworm, Red Wiggler, Brandlings or Manure Worm amongst other names. It was the distinct banding that developed when the worms were farmed in a single medium, paper pulp, that led them to be named tiger worms. On entering an environment different to that in which they are bred, they tend to go wandering due to the shock of the environmental change. We get these small wild worms entering our worm beds. For this reason we only use the outdoor beds for breeding composting worms. If worms are ordered for fishing we only use pure dendrobaenas bred indoors to prevent contamination by the smaller worms not appropriate for fishing. This infiltration of Redworms into our beds has enabled us to see the advantages of Dendrobaenas in wormery like conditions i.e. the larger Dendrobaenas aerate the beds better and prefer wetter conditions often found in wormeries.


Like the Dendrobaena, the Tiger worm is an Epigeic worm, i.e. they live on the surface of the soil or in the top 6 inches or so of the topsoil under the litter layer. Both are indigenous to this country. Both worms can tolerate temperatures from 3 to 27 degrees celsius. Our Dendrobeanas have survived snowfall and frosts on our outdoor beds without any insulation! Worms will burrow down to protect themselves. A single Tiger worm will produce approximately 2-4 young per week. Cocoons are laid which normally contain 2 worms taking anything from 32 to 73 days to hatch. Tigers take 53 to 76 days to reach sexual maturity. As a guide, in ideal conditions, you can expect to double the weight of your Tiger worm population in 3-4 months. The Tiger is supposed to eat up to its own weight in food each day, its weight being from 0.5 to 1 gram. However we have found that Tiger worms eat no more, if not less, weight for weight than dendrobaenas.

We do not have a surplus of worms to shift, in fact we have to work extremely hard to meet demand. It would be far easier for us to supply less worms with our wormeries (and cheaper), but we continue to provide 1kg of worms as we know that this amount gives our customers the best chance of making their wormeries a success.

We have done our own trials in controlled conditions, feeding the same amount of food to two large trays of worms. One tray contained dendrobaena worms and the other contained an identical weight of tigers. At the end of the trail the tiger worms had bred more but the dendrobaenas had eaten more food and had produced a greater quantity and quality of wormcast i.e. the compost was broken down better and was much finer.
In summary, both Dendrobaenas and Tigers are effective composting worms. However we have found Dendrobaenas ideally suited to wormery conditions because they like wetter conditions, will tolerate slightly acidic conditions better and being larger and more robust they are more efficient at aerating the compost. This is handy as the natural composting process can cause your wormery to become acidic should you overfeed or forget to neutralise the PH of your wormery with eggshells or lime.
Tiger worms do breed faster than dendrobaenas.

In our experience of breeding the two types of worms in controlled conditions, Dendrobaenas digest waste quicker and more efficiently than tiger worms producing quality wormcast at a much faster rate.

[3rdEye]

Fantastic info on the relative merits of these mucilaginous friends. Great read and highlights spurr. Thanks again Dendrobaenas are on the menu now.

[Scrappy4]

Hey guys, I'm half way through the teaming book, great read, thanks. I'm learning what roles, all the names I have heard, have in my soil. Just knowing the relative sizes and what eats what is helpfull.

What we need now is a MJ specific organic book. I propose you guys (you know who you are) each take a couple of chapters and write an organic marijuana specific book. By now we pretty much all have read the "bible" and are ready, willing, and able to get some higher education.........scrappy

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for." Socrates
Great thread, tons of info, thanks everyone.

[Scrappy4]

Bump to keep this current, it's getting buried. Could we sticky this thread, I feel it's pretty informative, and would like to have easy access to it......... scrappy

[3rdEye]

Here here for making it a sticky.

Originally Posted by 3rdEye

Here here for making it a sticky.

I have just finished reading through this thread......and I agree. Nice work everyone!!

Welcome to the club here at IC Spurr

It is now a Sticky.

Weeds Guardians of the Soil

V

[statusquo]

I agree with pretty much everything Verdant says on the first page except that I think there are very smart and helpful people if you know how to find them (I will admit they are few and far between - many of the people on this forum and on the internet in general are annoying, selfish, rude, ignorant, self-righteous, and trolls lol). Although many people on the forums are ignorant and/or idiots, it's usually easy to tell who these people are. Also, the site has many educated members and even members with PHDs that are certainly qualified to dispense knowledge. If you stick to facts and stickies and posts by recognized intelligent members, this site (IMO) is the most valuable tool a novice grower can use.What I have recommended to my quasi-students has been to read Cervantes' Bible and then after you have that book down, start reading the FAQs and external links in the different sub forums under growing. The organics one especially, that site is PACKED with information. I would recommend ICmag alone for learning your foundation but Cervantes just does such a good job of organizing everything and writing about cultivation in a clear and detailed way. Not to mention, as a beginner with little knowledge, it is too difficult to sift through the lies/ignorance/bullshit.

After reading the book you will be able to tell rapidly who is talking out of their ass vs. members that actually contribute to the advancement of horticultural knowledge in the field of cannabis. The book is not small but it's not difficult/expensive either. I recommend reading all sections except the hydro section if you are doing soil (I would read the soil section even if you plan on doing hydro). Even the breeding section, which was written by Chimera, offers valuable information that any serious grower should know. The route of getting that book + ICmag (again, IMO) is the cheapest, fastest and most efficient way to become a bonified/legit grower of top grade cannabis at a cheap cost and consistent rate.

The Soil and Health Library