[DARC MIND]

capt
why dont u start a worm bin?
news/junk/office paper and coffe grounds are almost endless to most. then thers the garden,grow,fall leaves and ur own/family waste...
im sure a few worm bins could be used to ur advantage,thats if u havent got a few going all ready

[spurr]

Originally Posted by Capt.Cheeze1

My only problem is that I don't consume enough matter or have the by-product of enough matter to continually generate the material necessary to make the amount of HIGH quality compost I NEED. I compost..it's just not enough.... so I have to buy it. I utilize all I consume....except electricity...which gets used to the full extent as possible..sorry off topic.

Hola,

My post about Luebke compost wasn't directed toward you, I was just providing as source for good compos that is reasonable priced, but shipping is a PITA. I hope my post didn't bother you, sorry if it did. I wasn't trying to diss the use of compost for ACT.

[Microbeman]

Originally Posted by spurr

For those who want to use Luebke compost contact "MidWest Biosystems", there are a few other producers of Luebke compost, but MidWest is well thought of, and often has stock on hand.

I agree with MM and others, that homemade and fresh vermicompost is a great source of compost teas, better then compost I have ever purchased commercially. MM has stated his indoor vermicompost bins produce high quality ACT. I believe an outdoor vermicompost pile might be better than indoor, but I trust MM way more than myself on the optic of verimcompost/vermiculture.

MM, please correct me if I did not represent your feelings/claims correctly, thanks!

There could be benefits to a vermicompost pile outdoors. My big pile is now virtually outside as it is in a shed with an open face. Since I moved to the coast I don't need to worry so much about freezing temperatures. If I had no roof over it moisture regulation could be problematic. My big pile is still suffering from my move to the new location. I've had to pay so much attention renovating my new home that I've really slipped in other areas.

I bought a soil/compost mix yesterday for the first time in ages for spreading around the yard and planting trees. I checked out their method (over the phone) and looked at a sample at a retailer. The sample looked and smelled good. They said they get mushroom compost and let it sit for 6 months, then mix it with thermophilic compost, aged wood fines and 30% sand. I got 40 yards delivered. It smells of mushroom compost. I hate it when people lie.

[guest2012y]

DARC...I need to get into a more permanent space before taking on more life forms than I already have. Soon...soon my friend.

spurr...I was just openly whining about not being able to make enough compost for my needs. I sort of have a complex about having to buy it. I understood that you provided a source...Thanks for for the suggestion,I'll look into that and see if it's something to consider if Marwest goes to shit. When I move will take my soil and compost with me.....

[Clackamas Coot]

Mrs. Coot and I bought a Kindle device as well as an Apple iPad. We buy a lot of books and having them in an electronic form has a lot of advantages over printed tomes.

But where the Apple iPad really shines is the ability of the Mac OS to create PDF files on the fly.

Take the Leubke Compost site that spurr linked to. It's a pretty lengthy article which requires a fair amount of scrolling. Because of an underlying technology used in the Mac OS (specifically the Postscript language which is a vector application and is the parent technology behind Adobe Acrobat), you can print any document, web page, et al. as a PDF which results in it being turned into a book form, i.e. it has pages and not a single long document.

Upload that to the Apple iPad and you now have a booklet form of the article. In the case of MM's web site I was able to print out the page and by tweaking the initial print command, the videos at this site are now embedded into the PDF document and perform like they do when you hit his page with a web browser. You simply click on the video and it plays - all within the PDF document.

The Gutenberg Project is the oldest digital repository of books, essays, papers and was established in early 1970's. Worth checking out. I found an 'indoor gardening' book from the 1870's from England - seems they were having problems with red spider mites and PM then. Some things are eternal I guess.

CC

Originally Posted by spurr

The info in the CT group never impressed me, but some people did, like MM, you, Steve Diver, etc.

I agree with this wholeheartedly!! There are a few knowledgeable contributors and the occasional thread on there that contains lots of info. But for me, sites like this one hold a lot more info!


To all who spread their knowledge

[3rdEye]

Thank you very much for getting this thread started scrappy.

Thank you to all the contributors. I'm working my way through the reading list now.

[spurr]

Originally Posted by Microbeman

I bought a soil/compost mix yesterday for the first time in ages for spreading around the yard and planting trees. I checked out their method (over the phone) and looked at a sample at a retailer. The sample looked and smelled good. They said they get mushroom compost and let it sit for 6 months, then mix it with thermophilic compost, aged wood fines and 30% sand. I got 40 yards delivered. It smells of mushroom compost. I hate it when people lie.

Damn that sucks, I hate it too. Did they tell you how they make their mushroom compost (re: if they use lots of synthetic ferts)?

I dislike using spent mushroom compost for horticulture considering to sell spent mushroom compost it generally has to be pasteurized (steam treated) or salted (with high levels of sodium) to kill potential problem fungi and other pets. And because steam pasteurization is often more costly than sodium treatment, many sources of spent mushroom compost use sodium instead of heat; then they let it sit for many months to reduce the sodium level (and level of other ions).

Freshly spent mushroom compost itself is high in salts (ions) due to the process of making mushroom compost, and that is why it needs to be left to sit for many months, otherwise it can hurt plant roots. Also, freshly spent mushroom compost generally has a high levels of fungal metabolites (from cultivation of the mycelium and fruit bodies) that are acidic and not helpful to plants roots.

I am sure you know this, but because this is the reading thread I figure I'll post this info:

The process for making mushroom compost is not the same as making thermal compost. I am hesitant to use spent mushroom compost due to the high level of synthetic fertilizers used to make most mushroom compost. Generally mushroom compost is called "synthetic mushroom compost" when it is made without horse manure, e.g., a mix of straw, chicken manure and gypsum. Most mushroom compost produced today uses horse manure, straw, gypsum, urea and/or ammonium sulfate, super phosphate and muriate of potash or sulfate of potash. Even though most mushroom compost has high levels of synthetic ferts it's not termed synthetic compost unless it lacks horse manure (as a general rule). Some compost makers also include items like cottonseed meal, soybean meal, spent brewers grains, chicken manure, s.peat moss, etc.

The gypsum adds Ca and S, it's used to keep volatile ammonia from escaping the compost en mass, thus increasing nitrogen reclamation and reducing the stink of phase I mushroom compost as the microbes break down the urea and/or ammonium and/or chicken manure (i.e. ammonification). Mushroom compost (esp. phase I) can stink to the high heavens, so gypsum is added to lock the ammonia (via. the Ca in gypsum) from escaping. Some governmental/regulation bodies demand the addition of gypsum to prevent the smell. The S from the gypsum helps keep compost pH from getting too high, i.e. > 8 (ex. sodic soil/compost). The Ca from gypsum not only locks in volatile ammonia (thus decreasing N losses and increasing N reclamation), but the Ca also increases flocculation of compost.

I think vermicompost or good thermal compost (ideally Luebke compost) are much better than spent mushroom compost for horticultural applications; esp. when used as microbial sources. I have never been happy with the spent mushroom compost I have purchased.


Here are some good reads on the topic of production of mushroom compost (phase I and II, etc.) and studies/assays on spent mushroom compost:

1a. Penn State: "Mushroom Science and Technology"
https://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/mushroom.shtml


1b. Penn State: "Mushroom Science and Technology > Mushroom Substrate for White Button Mushrooms"
https://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/Substrate.shtml


1c. Penn State: "Mushroom Science and Technology > Mushroom Substrate for White Button Mushrooms > Mushroom Substrate Preparation for White Button Mushroom"
https://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/Preparation.shtml


1d. Penn State: "Mushroom Science and Technology > Mushroom Substrate for White Button Mushrooms > Managing Microbial Activity During Phase II Composting"
https://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/PhaseII.shtml


1e. Penn State: "Mushroom Science and Technology > Mushroom Substrate for White Button Mushrooms > Spent Mushroom Substrate"
(both fresh and aged)
https://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/Spent.shtml


2. Penn State: "Mushroom Science and Technology > Information"
https://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/Information.shtml


3. Penn State Publications: Mushroom Topics
https://pubs.cas.psu.edu/PubSubject.a...ject=Mushrooms


4. "Growing Mushrooms on Compost"
https://www.angelfire.com/co/mycosociety/cult3.html


5. "Plant Nutrients and Fresh Mushroom Compost"
(note this is about freshly spent mushroom compost, not aged spent mushroom compost)
https://www.mushroomcompost.org/NPK2.pdf


6. Orgeon State Univitsy: "Garden Hints > Mushroom compost--use carefully"
https://extension.oregonstate.edu/new...oryType=garden


7. "Compost preparation technology Mushroom growing"
https://agaricus.ru/en/doc/show/315/

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Last year I started making organic mushroom compost (without synthetic fertilizers or chicken manure) to sell to some local mushroom growers, and they found it worked as well as the normal kind of non-organic mushroom compost (either with or without horse manure) to grow button muhsrooms (Agaricus Bisporus) and shrooms (P.cubensis). I tweaked the C:N ratio, and used other inputs to increase the N, P and Ca levels for the finished compost, which as a goal should be about: C:N ratio < 15:1, 2-2.5% for N, 0.5-1% for P, 1-2% for K, 1-2% for Ca and < 0.5% for Mg.

I use aluminosilicate zeolite ("zar-min") powder in place of gypsum when making mushroom compost to reduce volatile N loss as gaseous ammonia. The CEC of the zeolite does a better job of locking down the volatile ammonia than does the Ca from gypsum; but I also add calcitic lime for Ca which increases flocculation of compost. I also use both of those minerals in my version of Luebke compost to increase N reclamation, humus content (thanks to the CEC and clay content of zeolite and Ca of calcitic lime) and compost flocculation. After speaking with George Leidig a few times I am sold on not using clay-loam and instead using zeolite for Luebke compost. George has used bentonite clay powder (from a kitty litter production plant) in place of clay-loam at ~10% (IIRC) and his Luebke compost had the highest Luebke humus score he has ever seen, 100 I think. The bentonite clay powder has a good level of CEC, but it's much less than the CEC found in micronzied zeolite powder.

[3rdEye]

Thanks spurr for the breakdown on the mushroom compost. That is an arena that i need to revisit again.

[spurr]

NP