[spurr]

I promised Guest I would not discuss that topic here, I only posted that paper because I wanted to show why I use kelp and hydrolyzed fish for my tests with chem ferts and microbes. Do a search for this thread "Most plants will not die without ions" and check your PMs in a little while, I'll shoot you a message.

[Mudita]

I read that other thread, but I was still wondering because it is never said, you two just end up arguing over minute differences in words and it gets boring.

[spurr]

Reading the references I uploaded will tell you more than I can in just one post, you will get a much better understanding of the phenomenon and all issues involved by reading the papers. There are a few different routes to absorption. And leafs also absorb organic substances such as dissolved organic nitrogen (from the phyllosphere) as 'food' just like they absorb ions (as 'food') from the phyllosphere through the cuticle layer. I dont want this thread to be about that topic, so here is a post of some of my references that will offer much insight for you, more than I can provide in a single post: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.ph...8&postcount=18

I feel it would be redundant for me to write what those authors already wrote; who probably explain it better than I could too boot because they have a better grasp on it than I do This is pretty new info, so the science of how it happens is still being worked out.

[spurr]

@ Mudita,

Specifically read these papers I uploaded:


"Dissolved Organic Nitrogen and Mechanisms of Its Uptake by Plants in Agricultural Systems"
David L. Jones, John F. Farrar, Andrew J. Macdonald, Sarah J. Kemmitt, and Daniel V. Murphy


"Tansley review: Uptake of organic nitrogen by plants"
Tor gny Nä sholm, Knut Kielland and Ulrika Ganeteg
New Phytologist (2009) 182: 31–48


"Plant Uptake and Utilization of Organic Nitrogen"
Torgny Nasholm
Dept of Forest Ecology and Magagment/Dept of Forest Genetica dn Plant Physuilogy, SLU


"Dissolved organic nitrogen uptake by plants—an important N uptake pathway?"
David L. Jones, John R. Healeya, Victoria B. Willett, John F. Farrar, Angela Hodge
Soil Biology & Biochemistry 37 (2005) 413–423

[Mudita]

ok thanks, i was just hoping you'd c&p the info you must already have. I'm not one to do too much digging. I was just curious.

[spurr]

I can C&P some info sure, into the other thread in this forum. But I still have to write other posts I promised ppl I would write such as usage of PGRs, etc. I will try to do as you ask by Monday.

[Zen Master]

can you put this in doodoo dumb language?

what I'm getting is

"no matter what you feed it, the plant is only gonna take what it wants, not what you force down its gullet"

[Greyskull]

found it!!!!

The medium and the plant itself control which nutrients are released to the plant at just the right times.

from Canna's webpage: https://www.cannagardening.com/node/1568?page=0,5
its an "info paper" on their coco product line. unfortunately it doesnt go into detail as to HOW/WHY it works... only that thats whats going on.

heres the whole section from page 6 of article/info paper:

Because CANNA Coco is 100% organic it has a relatively high Cation-Exchange Capacity (CEC). This means the substrate has the ability to hold and retain certain nutrients vigorously thus requiring these nutrients to be supplied in a special form that remains available to the plant.

Due to the special Coco characteristics in combination with the unique pre-buffering process, it is possible to combine vegetative and flowering nutrients in one nutrient mix. The medium and the plant itself control which nutrients are released to the plant at just the right times.
This means the grower doesn’t have to worry about the proper point to convert from grow to bloom nutrients!

discuss....

Originally Posted by Greyskull

found it!!!!



from Canna's webpage: https://www.cannagardening.com/node/1568?page=0,5
its an "info paper" on their coco product line. unfortunately it doesnt go into detail as to HOW/WHY it works... only that thats whats going on.

heres the whole section from page 6 of article/info paper:



discuss....

Because CANNA Coco is 100% organic it has a relatively high Cation-Exchange Capacity (CEC). This means the substrate has the ability to hold and retain certain nutrients vigorously thus requiring these nutrients to be supplied in a special form that remains available to the plant.

Due to the special Coco characteristics in combination with the unique pre-buffering process, it is possible to combine vegetative and flowering nutrients in one nutrient mix. The medium and the plant itself control which nutrients are released to the plant at just the right times.

According to Argo and Fisher, because of the lack of bulk density, the role of the CEC of soilless media in containers is overblown.

Understanding Plant Nutrition: Nutrient Sources: Media Cation Exchange Capacity

By Bill Argo and Paul Fisher
February 2008

Research has shown that the CEC of soilless media has little effect on resisting change in pH, or in supplying nutrients to the crop. Several experiments were completed at Michigan State University that tested the effect of CEC on long-term pH and nutrition management using impatiens as the test crop. The media tested ranged in buffering capacity from one considered very low (5 meq/liter, a 70 percent rockwool and 30 percent perlite mix) to one that would be considered highly buffered (76 meq/liter, a mix of 70 percent highly degraded consumer grade sphagnum peat and 30 percent perlite).

(Note figure 2 at the link. coir/perlite was also one of the media mixes that was tested)

When shoot-tissue calcium was tested after four, eight, 12 or 17 weeks of growth, there was little difference between plants grown in the media with low CEC (rockwool perlite) or relatively high CEC (consumer grade peat/perlite). The media-CEC therefore did not act as a buffer to nutrient levels available for plant uptake.

[Greyskull]

okay.... but what about the plant, itself?

does it eat everything on the plate when we feed it becasue "we are shoving food down its throat"... or does it choose to eat some of the "chicken", some of the "rice", all the "brocolli", and "half the roll, unbuttered" that were made available?

im curious why canna would release to print that "the plant itself control which nutrients are released to the plant at just the right times"... im wondering if theyve tapped into what spurr digging into....

edit: btw nice reference materials Carl Carlson