[RubeGoldberg]

not really gonna read the whole thread but one thing to keep in mind, the label has fuck all to do with whats in the bottle, if botanicare wants to list sulfur on a label they have to provide tests etc to state regulators when they register the product there.
Its easier to just omit things depending.

Also npk on the bottles is never really accurate in most cases either, always better to speak with the company itself

[tester]

Originally Posted by neddy

Incorrect. C prior post. Every reg with the CDFA must go through their lab.

OK, that might be correct and every reg must go through that lab, but the Guaranteed Analysis is listed in those databases linked below, not the results of the lab tests.

Originally Posted by thefatman

https://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...iewTable&ltr=B

https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/showFirmOptions.asp

Just a couple of the fertilizers are present in the "Chemist Report Results for Fertilizer Samples" PDFs

[tester]

neddy: what company made those ferts you got tested?

[ShroomDr]

Originally Posted by NOTB

i hav'nt bought from Botanicare for yrs but they use to put sodium in their stuff..... that's a no go for mj.

Their Sodium in Silica Blast never caused me a problem, and had less of an effect on my pH than straight potassium silicate (like most Si supplements). The lesser effect may be seen as beneficial.

Ive used it in DWC for over a year, and then 'reused coco' for 2+ years. The only reason i switched, is Protek is cheaper where i shop.

Too much Na is bad; that is for sure. Na, K, Mg and Ca all compete with each other (see: periodic table). However, Silica Blast is the only product i know Botanicare issues that has Na, and it's not harmful at its rate (bottle listed 5ml/Gal).

[Morphote]

From The Indoor Bible by J. Cervantes:

"Virtually all ground, river and lake water contains sulfate." (pg.126)

"Sulfur deficiency occurs indoors when pH is too high or when there is excessive calcium present and available." (pg.127)

"Organic sources of sulfur include mushroom composts and most animal manures." (pg.127)

I use PBP and amend my soil (FFOF) with bat guano (Mexican & Jamaican).

M.

[neddy]

Originally Posted by tester

OK, that might be correct and every reg must go through that lab, but the Guaranteed Analysis is listed in those databases linked below, not the results of the lab tests.


Just a couple of the fertilizers are present in the "Chemist Report Results for Fertilizer Samples" PDFs

No Tester, there's a process of registration and the guaranteed analysis found during the CDFA lab tests must be listed on the labels otherwise the product is noncompliant in California and Oregon. The problem is that many of the manufacturers out there change their formulas once registered and don't bother telling the CDFA that this is the case. The CDFA moreso than any other body does test randomly for compliance violations and they've been testing a lot of products recently and caught a lot of people out. Its a tough one for manufacturers because registration costs money and if each time they decided to make a change to their formula they were to retest and reregister it would be costly so they simply don't bother. The fines for non compliance are so low that it makes it viable to cheat the system. Then of course by registering you're making your formulas public knowledge so sometimes manufacturers play the system. So back to your point. The reason the labels and CDFA data registration matches is because those labels come from the CDFA tests. To list otherwise would mean a non compliant product that would be recalled and be required to be relabeled based on the CDFA lab tests. It also gets far more complex than this when it comes to claims made on labels - that's a whole different ballgame again.

[neddy]

Oh and the other thing is there are serious batch inconsistencies that are common by some manufacturers so labels are extremely unreliable:-)

[neddy]

Originally Posted by Morphote

From The Indoor Bible by J. Cervantes:

"Virtually all ground, river and lake water contains sulfate." (pg.126)

"Sulfur deficiency occurs indoors when pH is too high or when there is excessive calcium present and available." (pg.127)

"Organic sources of sulfur include mushroom composts and most animal manures." (pg.127)

I use PBP and amend my soil (FFOF) with bat guano (Mexican & Jamaican).

M.

I read this kind of thing and shake my head. You need way more S than is found water. This of course seems to apply to organics so a bit of mumbo jumbo is probably acceptable. I have no idea what this material covers and I have never read a single thing written by Cervantes. If you want to learn about plant nutrition you don't read books written by mull growers. Its chemistry and plant physiology - I doubt any of these guys are really qualified to be talking about plant nutrition and physiology.

[neddy]

Originally Posted by thefatman

No you are merely part right in that if there is less than 1% sulfur it need not be listed on the label. In all other aspects you are are simply wrong. Even your own posts have shown that. As for living in the real world, apparently your real world thoughts are fogged by too much mj smoking or most likely to much ego to admit when your wrong. Your feeble attempts to prove your entirely right is what is boring. Time to move on guy. I am through trying to show you most of your posting is simply your opinion rather than information based upon any facts. I am therefore hrough pointing out your errors so this is my last post in this thread. Have a good day.

Fatman those first tests I posted were handed to me for a consultancy job where they required me to formulate from the analysis conducted by the CDFA. I told them the analysis was garbage and we would need to retest because N isn't broken down and in a heap of their tests S wasn't tested (there's also other problems but we aren't here to give you a lesson in interpreting lab analysis). And no I am 100% right I can assure you. For some reason they tested for S on a few of the tests but the client had requested this. The 3 part tests are what the standard CDFA tests look like every time unless you specifically request S tests. In those first tests I was given lab data for about 20 products - those were the only S tests and you're clasping at straws. Stop making out you are some kind of expert when you clearly aren't to anyone with a trained eye. By the way all those tests are utter garbage for reverse engineering and I would never work from such data. In the real world Fatman we don't grab labels or some dodgy data from the internet and slap it all into a shabby program and hope for the best. We test and retest using qualitative standards to do this.

[Morphote]

Originally Posted by neddy

I read this kind of thing and shake my head. You need way more S than is found water. This of course seems to apply to organics so a bit of mumbo jumbo is probably acceptable. I have no idea what this material covers and I have never read a single thing written by Cervantes. If you want to learn about plant nutrition you don't read books written by mull growers. Its chemistry and plant physiology - I doubt any of these guys are really qualified to be talking about plant nutrition and physiology.

I don't experience S deficiency. I suspect the plants are getting their needs fulfilled by the manure. I don't use Epsom salts but I have them in reserve should the need arise. As for JC, I know he gets much of his information from more informed sources (ex: Chimera wrote the section on breeding cannabis).

M.