[ShroomDr]

I dont know much about organics, their cycles, or specifically fish meal and composted seabird guano.



If I wanted to read a little bit into it, and take a couple assumptions, i would say

First, all 7 of Botanicares base nutes @ an application rate of 10mL/Gal have 15Mg (forget Ripe). This is probably not a coincidence.
Second, the CNS17 all have the same ingredients, specifically magnesium sulfate, and manganese sulfate. Now if you assume their S is coming from those two sources, and the manganese is only needed in very small quantities, most of the S is coming from the magnesium sulfate.

Its a reach to assume they are using magnesium sulfate in the Pure Blend Pro series, just because the Mg levels are all the same. I wouldnt say its fact, but i assume its probably at a similar level.

PBP is not ORMI (although i dont know if epsom salt is a dis-qualifier or is ORMI). Technaflora and GH are a lot clearer on what's in the bottle, labeled on the bottle.

[desertsquirrel]

thanks again.

[farmdalefurr]

i was recently converted to the CNS17 line strictly by curiosity. i fuckin love the stuff. i run the coco/soil grow.bloom.ripe.LK.sweet (berry).hydroplex. im not sure about this S talk and aromas and such. i dont get that deep into it as to analyze whats in the bottle. i think unless we work there and are mixin the shit up ourselves, we will never know. im goin with genetics as well

[the_extremist]

Just ran across this thread again and thought I would let you all know that I called Botanicare and spoke with two different people that confirmed my suspicions. They do not put any S at all into the PBP bottles. So I'm gonna go ahead and assume that they do this because they would really like you to buy a bottle of Sweet to go with your PBP.

Anyhow, I switched to amended organic soil and my aroma problems have since worked themselves out, lol.

[ShroomDr]

Originally Posted by the_extremist

They do not put any S at all into the PBP bottles.

The PBP formulas may not add Magnesium Sulfate, or Manganese Sulfate, but id bet my ass that there is S in the Fish Meal or Composted Seabird Guano.

In the future such questions can usually be best answered by simply checking with the Washington or California Fertilizer product data base analysis test results. They show that neither of the PBP products from Botanicare contain sulfur. (CORRECTION add: ..... at a a level of 1% or more.). California performs their own analysis on all fertilizers registered rather than expecting anyone to depend on the manufacturers guaranteed analysis. This is a great service as manufacturers are known for misrepresenting their products guaranteed analysis presented in their advertisements as well as on their products labels. Washington state initially accepts the statement of guranteed analysis but does its own testing randomly and when receiving complaints. The fines for misrepresentation are not small and those that misrepresent a products have the product removed from the registry by the state.

However:
WSDA conducts on-going random and targeted fertilizer product sampling, complaint investigations, field label reviews, removal of unregistered products or products otherwise in violation of fertilizer law from sale and inspections at fertilizer distributorships.
https://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...ompliance.aspx

Commercial Fertilizer:

commercial fertilizers - a substance containing one or more recognized plant nutrients that is used for its plant nutrient content or that is designated for use or claimed to have value in promoting plant growth. Commercial fertilizers also include lime, gypsum, and manipulated animal and vegetable manures. It does not include unmanipulated animal and vegetable manures, organic waste-derived material, and other products exempted by the department by rule.

Definition (Washington State)


Commercial Fertilizer:

Recognized plant nutrients include: 1. Primary nutrients

• Nitrogen
• Phosphorous
• Potassium

2. Secondary nutrients

• Calcium
• Magnesium
• Sulfur

3. Micronutrients

• Boron
• Manganese
• Chlorine
• Molybdenum
• Cobalt
• Sodium
• Copper
• Zinc
• Iron

As can be seen within these posted PDF's Washington state does do a good deal of it's own testing annually. Fertilizer manufacturers must use independent laboratories for testing their products for registration with Washington state.
Report of the results of analysis of official samples of fertilizer within the state as compared with the analysis guaranteed on the label. (RCW 15.54.430)

• Chemist Report Results for Fertilizer Samples. January through December 2007
• Chemist Report Results for Fertilizer Samples. January through December 2008
• Chemist Report Results for Fertilizer Samples. January through December 2009
• Chemist Report Results for Fertilizer Samples. January through December 2010

https://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...iewTable&ltr=B

https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/showFirmOptions.asp

[tester]

Most numbers in those databases are from the product labels, they test for some heavy metals and some micros

[neddy]

Originally Posted by thefatman

In the future such questions can usually be best answered by simply checking with the Washington or California Fertilizer product data base analysis test results. They show that neither of the PBP products from Botanicare contain sulfur. The states perform t.heir own analysis on all fertilizers registered rather than expecting anyone to depend on the manufacturers guaranteed analysis. This is a great service as manufacturers are known for misrepresenting their products guaranteed analysis presented in their advertisements as well as on their products labels.

https://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...iewTable&ltr=B

https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/showFirmOptions.asp

This is not strictly correct. First off unless a product contains 1% sulfur, S is not listed and not tested for under CDFA regulations. The CDFA does have their own lab (Western Analytical) but when a manufacturer registers they have to pay for tests with this lab to register. The CDFA very seldomly tests products thereafter so it is easy to cheat the system and many manufacturers do. Fines for non compliance are so low that many manufacturers see cheating the system as part of doing business. I made the mistake of testing with the CDFA lab once and once only as their standard test (due to CDFA regs) does not include sulfur or a breakdown on N - so no specific tests for urea, NO3 N and NH4 N and no S tests. It's far from a perfect system but then far better than most states have.

So to answer the original question - the reason S isn't listed by some manufacturers is because it is not required unless more than 1% of S is present in solution.

[neddy]

Originally Posted by tester

Most numbers in those databases are from the product labels, they test for some heavy metals and some micros

Incorrect. C prior post. Every reg with the CDFA must go through their lab.

Originally Posted by neddy

This is not strictly correct. First off unless a product contains 1% sulfur, S is not listed and not tested for under CDFA regulations. The CDFA does have their own lab (Western Analytical) but when a manufacturer registers they have to pay for tests with this lab to register. The CDFA very seldomly tests products thereafter so it is easy to cheat the system and many manufacturers do. Fines for non compliance are so low that many manufacturers see cheating the system as part of doing business. I made the mistake of testing with the CDFA lab once and once only as their standard test (due to CDFA regs) does not include sulfur or a breakdown on N - so no specific tests for urea, NO3 N and NH4 N and no S tests. It's far from a perfect system but then far better than most states have.

So to answer the original question - the reason S isn't listed by some manufacturers is because it is not required unless more than 1% of S is present in solution.

Sulfur is tested for by the by the California labs for product registration regardless of the amount contained. The test results would not be supplied by the registry if they did not do the testing for sulfur and the sulfur percentage is shown within the data based registry for levels of sulfur for 1% or more. Just what do you consider a small fine?

While neither state does a break down of the nitrogen into urea, NO3 N and NH4 N it is also very likely that the fertilizer manufacturers do not do so either. They likely just calculate the contribution of the different forms of nitrogen based upon the salts they use. Few nutrient formulas that contain sulfur contain less than 1% if sulfur has been purposely supplied through a salt containing sulfur..