484 watts of HPS against 455 watts of LED--The Eclipse

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

Eclipse
(Roger Waters)

All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel.
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save.
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal.
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say.
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight.
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
and everything under the sun is in tune

but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

======================
Not getting enough love

I thought I'd make a new thread for this grow and show it start to finish in just a few posts. I have been cataloging this grow in the Between Sun and Moon thread that is in the stickies. (The HPS is the Sun and the LED is the Moon.) I think that because it's up there no one pays much attention to it; that and I've been lousy at doing updates this time. Just takes so much time to go through a bunch of pics and post them up. Especially since I'm using a different computer and don't have my Photoshop app to work them and resize them in.

Actually that thread was really for the 400 w hps vs. the 205 w led that was given to me by HydroGrowLED to do the comparison run. Then LEDGirl sent me a 345 w led to go watt for watt against the 400. That's the part of the grow that I'll be showing here.

================
Let's go back in time to the day I said:
4-25

hazy said:
Originally Posted by hazy View Post
I'd love to do a grow with equal watts of leds. that'd quiet it down.

LEDGirl said:
Request Granted! We've been wanting to do a watt for watt test for quite some time, and I think there is no time better than the present. Now that we've shown the efficiency of our product, I think it would be an excellent idea to show the HID guys what watt for watt actually means.

Here's all I need to make this happen (and yes lights will be donated to Hazy for the test): A power reading of your current 400W HPS so I can match the actual draw of our LED's as closely to that # as possible. Needless to say it's not going to be a 400W HPS bulb vs (400) 1W LED's, it's going to be watt against watt.

============
Can you believe it--!! Handy little tool isn't it?

5-06
Here's the power usage meter pics of the actual usage of the 400 w hps.

Here's the power usage meter pics of the actual usage of the 205 w led and the 345 w led.

OK, 176w + 279w = 455 watts being drawn by both LEDs.

The 400w HPS uses 484
The LEDs use 455
----------------------
The LEDs use 29 less watts than the HPS does.

Well, that's as close as a Watt for Watt test can get
455 watts of LEDs vs. 484 watts of HPS.

===========
The Size of the grow Space

The test area for the hps was 28" by 57". = 10.58 sq ft. (there is a corner wall that is diagonal, equal to .5 sq ft less)

The test area for the LEDs was 28" by 42". = 8.16 sq ft. (they started out the same, but part of the led's space became walkway)

I could have covered more space with both the hid and the leds if it were available.

=======
The Strains

The hps was over 12 plants.

2 sour diesel
2 n99
3 burmese haze
2 gak
3 pk

The leds were over 10 plants

2 sour diesel
2 sugar shack
2 pk
1 chemdog #4
2 c99
1 golden cindy

Obviously a good test would be ran with all the same strain and with only a good producer. I take what the cloner offers up alive. And for clones, I take what the plants can spare and just try to always keep all my strains cloned, it'd be easy to miss one in the crowd and flower out the only one. With 7-9 strains and a few from seed always going I can only have so many of each, so I never have that many of one thing.

The best producer in this crowd is the diesel. It's still going at it over 72 days now I think. So is the Burmese Haze. And the c4.

Everything else has been chopped, but I'm not going to give the numbers until the SD and BH comes down. Hopefully this weekend. Stuff just won't finish.

I will say this about the performance of the 345 watt LED; it kicks ass. The buds on the Diesel, which were under the 345, are extra fat. Way better than the 400 can do. More like what the old 1000 watter does. Having never used a 600, I can't say if it is more like it, perhaps a 600 is the best to compare it with. Seriously, this light rocks.

Whitecaps

I did get a funny snow white bleaching? from having the 345 too close. It needs to be kept at least 12" away. This of course gives it a much bigger footprint compared to the 205 w. Can't wait to try the white buds and see how they smoke, maybe I can figure out how to get all white buds.

The Diesel, under the 400, or rather beside it, because they were too tall to be right under, did not get nearly as big as the ones under the led. Now this is in a 57"( almost 5') wide closet. The footprint thing that has been spoken of by folks including me as being a problem for LEDs is also a problem for the 400 hps. It will make big fat diesel buds in the sweet spot of 30 by 30 or even 36 by 36, but start to venture out beyond a 4' by 4' space to a 5 by 5, now the light is 2 feet to 2 1/2 feet away. Not nearly as nice of buds that far away.

next time the 345 solo

I'm going to this 345 w led in the closet and unplug the 400 for the next run. Not sure about the 205, but I'll think of something. That way I can see how well the 345 does with the wider footprint. I have good expectations for how well it will do.

************************

Now the big question:

Which will make more buds?

So we have a fair?? race here?

The LED has been handicapped 29 watts.

The High Pressure Sodium has been spotted an extra 2.42 square feet.

The HPS has been given two more plants than the LED has.

Let's not speculate too much, just watch.

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

5-12

Some plants that have been vegging for 2 weeks under the 400 and the 205.

Now the bigger ones were under floros for a couple weeks or whatever before these lights were freed up to use for vegging.

The Pks below started out the same, but the one on the right was vegged for a couple weeks under LEDs. The one on the left under the 400 watt hps. there are two under the hps, both just the same.

Closeup of the top growth of the PK under the 400

Closeup of the top growth of the PK under the LED

-----------------------
And I thought maybe some of you might find this next pic interesting.
This Sour Diesel grew up and was touching the glass of the LED.

It got a little light burn. Right under where each led was.

======================
5-16

Well, still just some vegging plants.I put up three pics trying to let you get a good look at the heights. It's really hard to open the door enough to get a good pic right now.

==============================

5-18

================
5-21

sour diesels getting way too big. a lot of vegging under the 400 and the 205. leds on the right are much bushier than the pics reveal.

PKs led on the right

By the way, there are a lot more plants under each light, just don't feel like dragging them all out.

=====================

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

=====================
5-21

LEDGirl said:
By the way Hazy, your 345W shipped out today. Can't wait to see what you do with it!

=======================
5-25

Flipped on 5-25. Here they are one day in.

hps/led

I still may add a couple more plants to the mix. There are a few from seed, so culled males will open up new space soon as they show. I have some Candy99s from nuggetshiner(these turned out to be males and were culled), a N99 from nuggetshiner, some burmese haze from MOD. The clones include Sour Diesel and Purple Kush and C99 and Sugar Shack and Golden Cindy and GAK and Chem4.
Lots more than last time. Should get real crowded real fast.

=====================
6-10

I took a few pics last night. They're 15 days in now.
The 400 is now back in the middle, the divider is gone and the girls can spread out a bit. Looks a little sparse in there now.

A new home for the LED girls. I'm putting a curtain between them and the big girls to the right.

This is the 345 watt LED. It has Sour Diesels under it.

205 low, 345 high.

SD buds

SD bud under the 400. Couldn't get a decent picher.

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

Starting to look like :canabis:

===================
6-27
LEDs looking good.

=========================
6-28

Hey unc, the 345 puts out noticeably more heat than the 205. Still not hot, though I have to keep it 12" above the tops to keep from burning them though.
Thanks freedom.

Hey Sir, good to see ya.

Ok, some more pics,

Here's momma dove with two baby dove tail feathers sticking out from under her. She lives above my porch in an Acacia tree. She's so close I could almost touch her, but I would never try,The babies are gone now, but she's back to do it again.

led grown Sour Diesel

Purple kush

Sour Diesel led

LED UP^^^
=============
HPS DOWN\/\/
Burmese haze growing under the 400

GAK hps

==================

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

These are all HPS pics

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

7-11

Sorry no updates yet, but my life suddenly got real busy and I just haven't had time to go through my pics. I'm going to put up one of a freaky fuzzy topped bud on one of the Sour Diesels under the 345 watt LED. There are three buds like this on this plant. Solid clump of pistils. I've never seen this happen before. The other plant has none like this.
All the plants under the leds look great, as do the ones under the 400.

===================

7-21

Yeah, NS, I have two sour diesel clones under that 345 and the tallest one,(closest to the light) got those jonasdiesel style pistil clumps. Weird. I think that this is just a 'light burn' from the leds. See the little leaves that are white?

On closer inspection, they are perfectly formed buds that are just snow white. The calyxes and leaves are snow white too.

Here's some pics from a few days ago. I'll get some more current ones soon. They've fattened up nicely. Those weird ones are especially gnarly fat buds.
here's some of the SDs under the 345 watt led.

a shot of the sour diesels. there's a C4 in back on the left and a PK bottom right.

the normal diesel.

except for this unusually blunt fat top.

Under the 205

Also, i guess I should include some from the 400 hps.

I believe that I could have grown more under this light. I have room to jam more in, but sometimes it's hard to tell how to divide them up for the comparison. There are 12 plants under the 400 and only 10 under the LED.

And I'm pretty sure the LED plants are going to kick the 400s butt this time.

I'm flushing, soon chop. The 25th will be 61 days for most.Remember, some faster finishers went in a few days later. Everything will be down by 65 days. Maybe 70 for a couple like the Burmese Haze.

Sour Diesels under the hps. Very nice fat buds.

Burmese Haze

Another BH

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

7-30

I just took a bunch of pictures. I worked them over a bit (resizing and renaming) and have uploaded them. I just am too tired now to make a thorough post about what's going on.
The new job's been keeping me busy, and changed my schedule so I'm sleeping when I should be posting, or something.
Thought I'd post a couple teasers and then tomorrow(I think I will have tomorrow off!) I'll post up a comprehensive report about this run and my thoughts and comments on the pics and the lights.

I've got some pretty good pics of this phenomenon going on on this diesel under the 345 led for you.

Nice Sugar Shack bud under the 205.

====================

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

7-30

Howdy Jack and Sir, thanks, I'm going to make it worth the look this time for sure.

OK, hopefully this update will make up for my slacking lately. :good:

This post will contain only LED grown plants. I'll put the HPS pics in the next post. :tiphat:

When I started this thread, I was just using the 205 watt led against the 400 hps. It was a good run and the 205 did well. Now I have a 345 also and it kicks the 400's ass.

That said, I want to qualify that statement with a disclaimer. The 400 may have enough bigger of a footprint that it may beat out the 345 if one was able to use a space large enough to maximize the area that the 400 can cover. Now, we all know pretty much what a 400 can do in the hands of a decent grower, but we don't really know how much area the 345 can cover. I think it will do a bigger area than the 36 x 36? that HGL says it will do. I think it will cover more because it needs to be kept at least 12 inches away from the tops, so that gives it a bigger footprint. I'm going to run it in place of my 400 next run. Just the 345 in a 5' by 28" space. We'll see how well it does for the plants that are not directly under the light.

Hope you guys don't mind full size pics cause that's what I need to post to tell this story. Everybody's got fast internet now right? When I look over the 205 this is what I see. There are two Sour Diesels and a Chem4 in the upper left and a PK down in the bottom left of the pic. These are under the 345.

A little better shot:

Don't you just love those snow white tops on those buds? haha! There's some great pics of those babies coming tonight.

This is the SD that is normal.

Here's some of those Diesel buds a little closer.

It's hard to get a good shot of those whitecaps, because of the glare, but I have some I took using no flash that might show them better.

I moved this one a bit to give you a better look at the weird ones. I've been picking on this white cap phenomenon, but the buds they are on have quietly gotten really big. Check out the white star of little bud leaves on the one.

You'll also notice a little PM. lots of old PM scars too. It's too hard to get to them to keep them inspected the way its set up right now.

A few more SD buds. :plant grow:

Here's those whitecap pics taken with no flash. You can see that the little bud leaves and the calyxes are completely normal except for the bleaching. It's not pistil clumps, normal shaped buds, just snow white. I am going to take a look at the trichs now that I'm writing about it my curiosity's up. ... Just looked and even though it's probably not something you'd want on a whole plant, it looks cool as hell. The amber trichs really stand out in the field of white. The white and clear just blend right into the background of the white leaf. It surprised me how many amber trichomes I saw, because the pistils are still mostly white as you can see in all of the diesel bud pics.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK, that's it for the Sour Diesel under the LEDs.

Here's a look at the Chem4. I rarely see this one, it never gets PM, so I don't have to check it, so it sits in the farthest hardest to get to spot. Not bad. This is just in a little one gallon pot.

====================
====================
I have two Purple Kushes under the LEDs. The buds didn't get as fat as they sometimes do, but I have two almost identical under the 400 and they are skinnier than normal too. In fact, I think the ones under the LEDs look better.

----------------------
This is a NICE little Sugar Shack. I have a much smaller one also under the led. I thought it was a GAK. it was mislabeled. They look a lot alike in veg.

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

7-31

I didn't have enough room in that last post for all the pics of the LED stuff.
C99

Sugar Shack

The little PK

C99 bud

I think that's C99 on the center/left and a Golden Cindy on the right. There's got to be an ounce on the Golden Cindy. It's a lanky plant shaped like a Christmas tree, except that it 's branches are weak and can't hold the weight of the buds. Same when I grow this GC under an HID.

That's it for the LEDs.

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

7-31

On to the stuff under the HPS.

Here's what you see when you open the door. Sour Diesels on the left.

Here's a look at the Sour Diesels and some bud shots.

-------------------

This is a Burmese Haze

This too.

The fat one on the right, below, is the Burmese Haze two pics up. The one that's bent over is also a Burmese Haze. I have one of them cloned, I think the lanky bent over one. lol. But take a look at the bent over bud in the second pic below. Not bad. The one with all the dead leaves is a PK. There's a C99 in there too.

This is the top of the fat BH in the pic above. You can see that it wants to go another week +.

Here's one that Hashy1 gave me. I have two of these, one about a foot tall and the other about two feet tall. It's a Northern99 from some beans I got from Nuggetshiner. This is the smaller one. Nice nugs, the big one has a nice bud. Both are just straight with no branching except for big frosty chunky looking nugs.

The next two are Purple Kush.

Below is a GAK.

Sugar Shack. Not really a very good example.

There are a few more besides the ones shown in these posts, but they are smaller ones so aren't much to look at. I'll start chopping tomorrow and get some whole plant pics maybe pre-chop and after stripping the fans or something. I have a feeling that it'll take me a few days to a week to get through this harvest, but when I do I'll give some tallies and pics etc.

Thanks for going along and reading these long winded posts of mine. I hope this thread has helped some peeps make informed decisions about these lights. I think that they are worth using. After seeing what the 345 can do to that Diesel, (talking about the size not the white tops) I'm pretty impressed. Obviously numbers will tell the tale later. Have no fear though, the two SDs by the 400 are no slouches. Nice heavy buds.

ass2mouth · Aug 9, 2010

looking forward to the clusterfuck as always hazy

btw i saw roger waters at the hollywood bowl performing dark side and it was probably one of the best nights of my life and i was dead ass sober(i was on probation)... nick mason even came out and played the encore

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

8-08

I have a bunch of new pics in my album. I'll put up a few now, more tomorrow when I'm not so tired.

I chopped about half of the stuff under the hps and the leds.
I have a weight but need to wait for the rest to finish before giving any numbers.

No Sour Diesels down yet, there are two under the 345 and two under the 400. I can only say that by the size of the buds, the 345 watt LED is ahead of the 400. The buds are big.
still have 3 Burmese Haze going under the 400 hps too.

Here's a Sugar Shack from under the 205 w led before and after fans were removed.

This SS was under the same light.

Some Shack buds
You can see that they got some nice color.

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

8-08
more led chop

c99 from under the 205 w led.

This pic is just a closeup of the down low popcorn. Not bad.

some shack etc. hanging

Now for some Purple Kush. The big one spent most of its time under the 345, while the small one was under the 205. It's just a cluster of nugs.

with fans-defanned

PK buds

Not bad eh?

Here's the down low never got any light larf.

This is a Golden Cindy. The weak branches are the strain not the light. Same story under the 400 or 1k.

This is all of the led stuff chopped so far. next post will be the 400 hps chop.

hazy · Aug 9, 2010

8-08
hps chop

I didn't take nearly as many pics of the 400 chop, but enough to see what's up.

This first is GAK. It went in late as it is a 45 day strain, though it went at least 50 days this time. A low yielding plant, but it did well with nugs all the way down the stalk.

Next are 2 Northern99 girls.

There were 3 PKs under the 400. Two that were just the same size as the big one that you saw in the last led bud post, and one small like the small one in the led post.

You judge which made better buds.

with and without fans

PK buds

down low PK larf from under the 400

That's all that's chopped from under the 400.
Left to go are two Sour Diesels and three Burmese Haze.
The BH are making nice fat buds, should be done any day.

=======================

hazy · Aug 10, 2010

Chopping Diesel today!

Chopping Diesel today!

Just checked the trichs under the radio shack scope and saw lots of amber. This is what I've been waiting for. :dance013:

I took these pics a minute ago and will chop in a few hours. I'll post up some defanned and chopped bud shots later.

I have dry numbers for everything except what's in the pics, so a few days will tell the tale. :ying:

You'll notice this run I grew everything bush style, a little trimming down low, but still left lots of untrimmed stuff and the popcorn came out looking good on the LED plants, which tells me that the lights penetrate just fine down to the lower popcorn. I still should trim it out to make nicer buds on the ends of lower branches, but too lazy I guess.

Sour Diesel

HPS---LED

HPS--LED

LED

I know, too many pics of the LED buds, but they look so good. btw, the stems on the led grown are strong and straight, while the hps grown SD stems are bent and broken.

how bout one big?

Burmese Haze

HPS
These BH look so good, bummer I only got a clone of the bent over rangy one, course it might be the most haze like, which would be good.

Fat Tone · Aug 13, 2010

Very nice grow.Your plants look great!!!!! What do you think of LED's compared to the 400 watt HPS?

Again.Great looking plants.

hazy · Aug 17, 2010

All Chopped

All Chopped

I failed to get pics of the hps final chop, but here's a few pics of the Diesel from under the 345 w led.
some defanned pics, first two SD, last one C4

I just love these whitecaps

Some buds

Last a macro of a white top. BTW, they smoke perfectly. Smooth, and without the same taste as the rest, very nice, i wish i could make whole buds do this.
The amber trichs really stand out.

===============***************
#################

OK, I have the final weights. I also have some comments on my results.

The LEDs using 465 watts produced 406.9 g. :thank you:

The HPS using 485 watts produced 204.6 g. :pointlaug

First, I'd like to say that the 400 obviously could have done better. And it has in the past. It did had 2 more plants than the leds. However, two of them were fairly low yielders. The SDs grew tall and were to the side and did not have the 400 directly over, which would have made a big difference. Also the fact that I run many different strains has an impact. The leds had many different strains too though.

The thing that really made the biggest difference was the veg. Plants that went into veg as equals came out big and bushy under the LED, while just normal under the 400. You can really see it with the Purple Kushes. The LED PKs that started the same as the 400 PKs, outdid them 58 to 42. With one big PK and one small PK in the leds, while the 400 had two big PK and one small pk.

the jump from the super vegging ability of the 205, gave the Sour Diesels that went under the 345 a big advantage. There was 205.5 of SD under the 345 while the 400 made only 78.1 of SD. I now I could have gotten the 400 to do better, with the right plant combination and numbers, but it has been unplugged and the 345 w led is going in its place.

I highly recommend the 345 watt LED light from HGL.

Granted, the SDs were pretty much right under the 345, and I can't say how it will do outside of that footprint, but I did not even utilize the advertised coverage of 36 x 36? My space is almost 5 feet wide, so we'll find out during this next run I'm getting ready for.

skotty · Aug 17, 2010

nice grow mate i already have a semi grow under my belt using the 345 watt panel and currently have another grow in progress.

what height did you keep the 345 watt led panel above the tops of your plants??

and has that white on the tops of the buds affected the quality??

i look forward to your next led adventure

peace

hazy · Aug 17, 2010

Hey Skotty, I keep the 345 at least 12" away. The plants grew and I neglected to move it up. After a while at 6-8 inches away I got the white tops.

The white caps smoke wonderfully, with a great high, I wish I could make the whole bud white.

Addicted2Grow · Aug 17, 2010

Very nice grown, and you get a very nice yield.
I have also have problems with whitecap under LED, the light is real powerfull.
My whitecaps wasent a great high, it was pretty poor. But rest of the buds was good.

484 watts of HPS against 455 watts of LED--The Eclipse

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