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Gnats & Root Aphids in Coco

BlindDate

Active member
Veteran
I wanted to share this information originating from Spleebales post on the subject of Gnats and Root Aphids and Bayer insecticides.

Since the Bayer Tree & Shrub, Bayer Citrus and Bayer Complete Insect Killer have different amounts of Imidacloprid and B-Cyfluthrin and since they need to be used in different doses and for different lengths of time based on the type of system you have, I want to share MY experience in a Drain to Waste Coco system.

I have suffered for years with Fungas Gnats and as I recently discovered, Root Aphids (that I could never see). I've used Gnatrol and Mosquito dunks till I was blue in the face without results. I've also used beneficial Nematodes with little success. This plague has haunted me for years. I've spent hundreds of dollars on these products.

After reading Spleebales thread I decided to try the Bayer Complete Insect Killer. I chose the "Complete" product because it contained the contact killer B-Cyfluthrin in addition to the systemic Imidacloprid.

My application was as follows:

5ml/Gallon mixed solution giving each pot a single soak. I did not feed the day of the soak. The gnats were all killed instantly. The plants did not suffer any damage, in fact looked healthier the very next day (probably due to bug relief). Two weeks later there were 2-3 gnats stuck to my yellow indicator card but none in the coco. Those were probably a few strays that happen to be flying around the room. I also saw some very, very tiny baby Root Aphids crawling around the pot this time. Once again, I gave the plants another 5ml/gallon soak and the baby Aphids were gone. I could say that my dose was conservative and that you could go up to 10-15ml/gallon without problems.

The bugs are gone gone gone. The plants are now as healthy as if they were never infected and I am kicking myself in the head for not trying this years ago. I know that there are you Tofu eating tree huggers that want to do everything the hard "natural" way, but if you ever want to simply get rid of them done deal gone instead of "managing" the problem, then I highly recommend this product.
 
T

Tr33

Did you do a follow up post in the Root Aphid thread and answer all the OP questions so your data will be there for the future of ICMAG? The OP asked all to do this instead of another thread.
 

BlindDate

Active member
Veteran
I will do that, but the reason I posted here is because usage and results were very system dependent. I wanted to share this with DTW coco users so as to prevent anyone who grows like me from killing their plants. Also, that thread is 51 pages long and my information would be buried deep within.
 
Last edited:
I wanted to share this information originating from Spleebales post on the subject of Gnats and Root Aphids and Bayer insecticides.

Since the Bayer Tree & Shrub, Bayer Citrus and Bayer Complete Insect Killer have different amounts of Imidacloprid and B-Cyfluthrin and since they need to be used in different doses and for different lengths of time based on the type of system you have, I want to share MY experience in a Drain to Waste Coco system.

I have suffered for years with Fungas Gnats and as I recently discovered, Root Aphids (that I could never see). I've used Gnatrol and Mosquito dunks till I was blue in the face without results. I've also used beneficial Nematodes with little success. This plague has haunted me for years. I've spent hundreds of dollars on these products.

After reading Spleebales thread I decided to try the Bayer Complete Insect Killer. I chose the "Complete" product because it contained the contact killer B-Cyfluthrin in addition to the systemic Imidacloprid.

My application was as follows:

5ml/Gallon mixed solution giving each pot a single soak. I did not feed the day of the soak. The gnats were all killed instantly. The plants did not suffer any damage, in fact looked healthier the very next day (probably due to bug relief). Two weeks later there were 2-3 gnats stuck to my yellow indicator card but none in the coco. Those were probably a few strays that happen to be flying around the room. I also saw some very, very tiny baby Root Aphids crawling around the pot this time. Once again, I gave the plants another 5ml/gallon soak and the baby Aphids were gone. I could say that my dose was conservative and that you could go up to 10-15ml/gallon without problems.

The bugs are gone gone gone. The plants are now as healthy as if they were never infected and I am kicking myself in the head for not trying this years ago. I know that there are you Tofu eating tree huggers that want to do everything the hard "natural" way, but if you ever want to simply get rid of them done deal gone instead of "managing" the problem, then I highly recommend this product.

My friend will have to send it to me from the U.S.
Do you think the powder version is fine? Shipping and all.
 

gates3rd

Member
Hello,

i love coco but the dark side are that damn Gnats i always have that little flys arround the pots. if i killed all in veg room there are new ones in the bloom room and vice versa ...

thx for the information i hope i can get rid of them once and for all :)

Cheers
:pirate:

PS: i can only find 3in1 Lizetan with 25 g/kg Imidacloprid but no Cyfluthrin ;(, is it aviable in europe ? i will keep searching maybe they have different chemical names in german.
 

reckon

Member
I grow in soil, but I add 30% coco,....and I clone in pure coco, and the clone room has always had a couple gnats, and lately it's just gotten bad.

I tried many things, and nothing worked for long, especially in the clone room, and I was thinking it might be coco coir's unusual biochemistry, so I thought I'd check in here,....glad I did.

I just did an azamax soil drench on everything, then the next day I removed the top 1/2" of coco, and soil(from the soil pots), and replaced the volume of coco/soil with perlite, and placed the clone trays/pots in another tray/pot of perlite. (so the bugs have to crawl through perlite to get in or out)

if what I just did doesn't show some positive results I will be getting some Bayer complete

thanks for the post OP, I sent you some + :tiphat:
 

BlindDate

Active member
Veteran
Gates3rd..........Many of the guys are just using the pure Imidacloprid without the contact killer with good results. I just felt that I needed an extra kick as my infestation was bad. Should work fine, just take a little longer.

reckon.....I wanted to try the Azamax, but the price discouraged me. It is also a systemic.
 

reckon

Member
reckon.....I wanted to try the Azamax, but the price discouraged me. It is also a systemic.


I only run 9 or 12 in my grow,...the clone closet is small too, I can only get 96 if it's just packed,.......

the Azamax is available in a 4oz size (retail approx $20), which is about 6 or 7 gallons when mixed, and was more affordable than the larger sizes.

it's not exactly impressing me at the moment (it's just concentrated neem extract), but it's only been a couple of days,....I'll give it a week, if I don't see a serious decline, I'm hitting them with the Bayer

these fucking gnats are a 4 stage insect (egg, larvae, pupae, winged adult), so you don't get much kill on eggs because they are in a shell, nor the pupae, because of the "cocoon" they spin,...so you can kill the larvae, but it's very tough to kill ALL the larvae,...then the gravid winged females you missed go and lay 300 eggs each, and the cycle continues.

I got a bogglegum mom from a friend, who even warned me "that has some bugs, you might want to treat it",..and I SHOULD have payed attention (hind sight and all that)

and I should have gotten way more aggressive when I first started seeing gnats, but it was only a few so I didn't give it much concern (dooh!),...we won't be making THAT mistake ever again.

I'll post up my results over the next few weeks
 
I used Imid to get rid of root aphids, and a week later I followed that up with an Azamax soil drench.
I've always had fungus gnats, can't ever seem to get 100% of them. This run however, after using the Imid and Azamax against rootaphids, I have very few fungus gnats, a side effect I can live with.
 

BlindDate

Active member
Veteran
bdomina....Yes that is the one. No bugs back yet (cross fingers). I have not given it to any of my clones yet, but at 5ml/gallon I don't see it being a problem.

puff adder.....Try the "Bayer Complete" it will kill them all within minutes.

ALSO, ONCE YOU MIX THIS STUFF UP INTO WATER AND GET A WHIFF, YOU JUST KNOW THEY ARE ALL GOING TO DIE It's a really good feeling I can't describe.
 

reckon

Member
bdomina....Yes that is the one. No bugs back yet (cross fingers). I have not given it to any of my clones yet, but at 5ml/gallon I don't see it being a problem.

puff adder.....Try the "Bayer Complete" it will kill them all within minutes.

ALSO, ONCE YOU MIX THIS STUFF UP INTO WATER AND GET A WHIFF, YOU JUST KNOW THEY ARE ALL GOING TO DIE It's a really good feeling I can't describe.

went and got bayer complete: 1tsp/gal gave em all a good drench

and yes, the smell of the mixed product, you DO know it's going to work.

so I applied it to: 2 bonsai mums in coco amended soil, a dozen 8oz "next croppers" also in coco amended soil, and 36 semi rooted clones in straight coco.

I'll post up the results over the next couple of weeks
 

PoopyTeaBags

State Liscensed Care Giver/Patient, Assistant Trai
Veteran
I had root aphids in my coco recently and i went as strong as 180ml per 5 gay buckets i didnt want to "play" with root aphids...

Didnt show any sign of stress on the plants but did burn the root hairs which two day later EXPLODED again... so no biggie.

thats over 30ml pergallon with no signs of bugs what so ever. many different strains went through this with np
 

BlindDate

Active member
Veteran
Good to know Poopy.....That gives a good safety margin and room to work. I never tried to push the limits as I did not have to. Remember though that you don't want to stall them either. So even if they are not damaged, they could stall from the shock of a higher dose. Let us know how that goes.

One member used 40ml/gallon in a recirculating hydro system and killed half his plants. Hence the reason I wanted to start this thread in dtw coco. It seems that the length of time in the system and type of system are important factors.

btw..What are "Gay" buckets? Or is this a don't ask don't tell question?
 

reckon

Member
I had root aphids in my coco recently and i went as strong as 180ml per 5 gay buckets i didnt want to "play" with root aphids...

Didnt show any sign of stress on the plants but did burn the root hairs which two day later EXPLODED again... so no biggie.

thats over 30ml pergallon with no signs of bugs what so ever. many different strains went through this with np

I'll assume that's a typo, and it's 5 GAL buckets

so 180ml/5 gallons=36ml per gallon or 2 tablespoons + 1 tsp/gal
 
I too read about the person using the Bayer Complete in their recirculating system and having probs. I'll stick with the Bayer Tree and Shrub. I used applications of 10ml, and 15 ml per gallon with no issues.
 

reckon

Member
I too read about the person using the Bayer Complete in their recirculating system and having probs. I'll stick with the Bayer Tree and Shrub. I used applications of 10ml, and 15 ml per gallon with no issues.

yes, but this is a DTW thread, so it's NOT getting recirculated

with a severe infestation (like mine), I also wanted the contact kill, and since it's DTW, I feel confident I'm not hurting the girls, which are all mums, or small clones at this point.

Day after report: I put up several new yellow stickies, and this morning they had several hundred each, so IF the dosage I used (5ml/gal) is going to work, it looks like it's going to be a few days,...I DO see hundreds of dead adults on the shelves, and the drain trays (which I am keeping dry as a bone),...I just got done cleaning them all out

when I shake the pots or trays, I see very few live insects, and one tray (the 12 boggle-gum for the next crop), appears to be gnat free. I still got them flying around, so I double checked and made sure there are no other breeding sites, I even dosed all the drains in the house.

I shot a quick 30 sec burst of Dr. Doom fogger in the clone closet, just to be sure and sealed it up.

the 36 semi rooted clones in straight coco look awesome, very green and healthy, I shook the crap out of them, and one crawled out, but the gnat didn't look very happy.

I'm hoping once these adults die that will be it,...unless somehow they laid eggs that will survive the bayer complete somehow.



someday I wont have these fuckers in my house,...even if I have to toss everything, wait 30 days, then go get more clones, and start over.
 

PoopyTeaBags

State Liscensed Care Giver/Patient, Assistant Trai
Veteran
I just typed a long reply and got delted long story short no stun or stunted plants and i read the thread the guy was in dwc and turned his air stones off for 20 hours i dont belive it was the impid that killed his plants.
 

BlindDate

Active member
Veteran
20 hours of no air is not going to do anything. His air would have to be off for several days before he even starts to see a gradual decline in health. I think it was either one of two things.
1. Constant submerssion over a long period of time (several days in Imid solution). Most likely, hence the reason for this thread.
or
2. A measurment mistake in mixing the Imid.
 

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