Plants doing bad, lost for ideas. Need advice!

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

Right, not my first grow. Been doing this for ~5 years and never had any trouble. At least not like this.

The only new addition to my setup, that would (I think) make a difference, is RO-water.

Pics:

For setup info see my diary.

They are about a month old, lights are 18/6.

They started out with an EC of about 0.8 and pH around 5.6. A little high, but I figured they would show signs of nute-burn if they thought it was too much. Which they did.

I emptied the tanks and put the EC at about 0.5, but it still didn't get any better and the pH started to fluctuate.

Emptied again and put the EC at 0.2 the pictures are taken after a week of EC 0.2. pH started to fluctuate even worse, going from 6 to 4 in one(!) day.

I've never had issues like this, and I have no idea whatsoever what to do. Like I said this is the first run with RO, but I'm not sure how having more pure water can be bad?

Nutes are Metrop and I use their fullwater-schedule.

There are two 3' lines of air-tubing in each tank, and on top of that there's a pump mounted vertically so it "stirs" the mix at all times. Not to mention it is a recirculating NFT-system.

If I mix according to the schedule, using RO water (which is neutral in pH) the final mix is at pH 5.10, too low.

I use Hesi pH+ to raise the pH.

Temps are good, RH is good. There are no pests from what I can tell.

I can't think of anything else atm. PLEASE ask if there's anything you need to know.

Any please, any help and/or slightest advice is MORE than welcome!

Thanks!

Cheers,

ITTG

DIGITALHIPPY · May 2, 2010

nitrogen toxicity while calcium def.

tips curling-nitro tox

yellwing/spots/dots-cal def.

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

DIGITALHIPPY said:
nitrogen toxicity while calcium def.

tips curling-nitro tox

yellwing/spots/dots-cal def.

Thanks DH for a fast response!

Nitrogen toxicity, really? Even with the low EC?

What do you recommend to fix it?

What about the fluctuating pH?

Thanks!

TexasToker · May 2, 2010

Remember when using RO water it literally strips just about any element out of the water. That is why CAL-Mag is often needed when using RO water.

I think your pH is fine IMO.

How old is the juice in your res.?

DIGITALHIPPY · May 2, 2010

ITryToGrow said:
Thanks DH for a fast response!

Nitrogen toxicity, really? Even with the low EC?

What do you recommend to fix it?

What about the fluctuating pH?

Thanks!

well, maybe not, my first feeling. with the tips turned down, happens with cheap chemical nutes.

the side curling up is definately heatstress, and the spotting is cal def.
as texas said calmag is needed with ro.

it might be a p/k def on second thought. the tips being down means the plant is trying to pump water....it could be from the heat stress i suppose.

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

TexasToker said:
Remember when using RO water it literally strips just about any element out of the water. That is why CAL-Mag is often needed when using RO water.

I think your pH is fine IMO.

How old is the juice in your res.?

So more cal-mag.

Any idea how much extra I should add?

The schedule says:
30ml/100L MR1
40ml/100L Amino Root
10ml/100L Calgreen (this is cal, mag and some other elements)

pH is good? Really? from 6.00 down to 4.00 in one day? Isn't below 5.00 bad for the plants?

The mix is about a week old.

Thanks!

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

DIGITALHIPPY said:
well, maybe not, my first feeling. with the tips turned down, happens with cheap chemical nutes.

the side curling up is definately heatstress, and the spotting is cal def.
as texas said calmag is needed with ro.

it might be a p/k def on second thought. the tips being down means the plant is trying to pump water....it could be from the heat stress i suppose.

Ok, I hear ya. Heat stress you say, hmm... ambient is never over 82F and leaf-temp (I have a laser-pointer-meter-thingy) is around 75-78F.
If I hold my hand, palm down, under the light, it never gets uncomfortable. Not saying it's NOT heat-stress, just giving you some more data to work with. :yes:

rH is about 60% during the day and 70% during the night.

TexasToker · May 2, 2010

I am not saying do this, but what I would do...

Is flush the res. Run new PH'd (5.5) water with the rec'd dose of cal-mag and 1/4 of any nutes you use. Be sure to check pH after you put your nutes in.

See how it does in 3-4 days. You are having a lockout it looks with a few diff symptoms. If one nute is locked, then others will be too.

Like I said...this is what I would do. It is safe, and effective. Granted I have not grown hydro in years. Soil is so much easier...

Your pH is better to be low than high IMO. I would guess it did not get down to 4. Is it cal'd? You just need to be in the sweet spot. If you have some bio-funk in your tank your pH can go nuts.

Looking at your plants again...they look nute burned. See above.

yortbogey · May 2, 2010

DIGITALHIPPY said:
nitrogen toxicity while calcium def.

tips curling-nitro tox

yellwing/spots/dots-cal def.

yep thatz the dealio......

flush....and run sum....cal-mag.....
also....add sum additional fresh air ....intake would help

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

TexasToker said:
I am not saying do this, but what I would do...

Is flush the res. Run new PH'd (5.5) water with the rec'd dose of cal-mag and 1/4 of any nutes you use. Be sure to check pH after you put your nutes in.

See how it does in 3-4 days. You are having a lockout it looks with a few diff symptoms. If one nute is locked, then others will be too.

Like I said...this is what I would do. It is safe, and effective. Granted I have not grown hydro in years. Soil is so much easier...

Your pH is better to be low than high IMO. I would guess it did not get down to 4. Is it cal'd? You just need to be in the sweet spot. If you have some bio-funk in your tank your pH can go nuts.

Looking at your plants again...they look nute burned. See above.

Thanks man! Much appreciated. I will try it, it can't get any worse right?

What is "cal'd", calibrated? I use a Hanna with a brand new probe, and I double check with pH-drops.

Maybe the nute burn is from the previous high EC?

Raphael · May 2, 2010

what is the temperature of your res? fluctuating ph can indicate root rot

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

yortbogey said:
also....add sum additional fresh air ....intake would help

Hmm... could they be deprived of co2 you think?

I exchange the air about once every three minutes. And on top of that i push the air through the air-cooled hoods, and since they're not 100% sealed, I can actually feel (fresh) air coming out of them. The air running through the system is outside air.

TexasToker · May 2, 2010

ITryToGrow said:
Thanks man! Much appreciated. I will try it, it can't get any worse right?

What is "cal'd", calibrated? I use a Hanna with a brand new probe, and I double check with pH-drops.

Maybe the nute burn is from the previous high EC?

yea, calibrated. 4.0 is pretty nasty. I must of missed that. The nute burn could be an overdose for sure.

i use that motto...it can't get any worse. You just have to start small...see how they do...next step.

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

Raphael said:
what is the temperature of your res? fluctuating ph can indicate root rot

Hey R, thanks for stopping by!

Temp in the res' is about 70-72F, and the roots look white and nice. Both the ones "inside" the table and the ones coming down into the res'.

TexasToker · May 2, 2010

ITryToGrow said:
Hmm... could they be deprived of co2 you think?

no

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

TexasToker said:
yea, calibrated. 4.0 is pretty nasty. I must of missed that. The nute burn could be an overdose for sure.

i use that motto...it can't get any worse. You just have to start small...see how they do...next step.

Yeah, the pH worries me... can't be any good putting in pH+ all the time either, right?

TexasToker · May 2, 2010

depends on how often, but no. A system that is healthy will have a stable pH. Like I said, if you have that fluctuation, it could mean you have some biological nasties in there.

ITryToGrow · May 2, 2010

TexasToker said:
depends on how often, but no. A system that is healthy will have a stable pH. Like I said, if you have that fluctuation, it could mean you have some biological nasties in there.

Yeah, that's what I figure as well (healthy system = stable pH).

Could you expand on the "biological nasties".

Could it be the RO-system that's bad? (It's brand new).

TexasToker · May 2, 2010

biological nasties are fungus,bacteria, and plants that can grow in your res. Just like algae...If your roots are as clean as you say then the possibility of having bad biologicals is not that likely.

ITryToGrow · May 3, 2010

TexasToker said:
biological nasties are fungus,bacteria, and plants that can grow in your res. Just like algae...If your roots are as clean as you say then the possibility of having bad biologicals is not that likely.

I see, well nothing is impossible. I will do a more thorough search.

What I do know is that no light gets down the water in the res', so algae is unlikely.

Thanks!

Plants doing bad, lost for ideas. Need advice!

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