[bunta*bun]

Hi everybody,

i was wondering whether it would be possible to run an aquaponic grow with axolotl instead of fish.
For some reasons they seem just perfect:
~they love watertemperatures below 70
~they love it in the dark - meaning they need absolutely no light
~they do not need other plants which could compete for the nitrate

but some points about them make me unsure:
~they do not like ph to fall below 6.5 <-which would be okay (at best) for the plant
~ When they are fully grow (about 12") they only need feeding once every 10-14 days, meaning that they digest very slow. (<- quite a lot though)

Has anybody any experience with axolots in aquaponics? Do they produce enough Nitrate for our needs?
I really like thinking that they enjoy living in a dark unheated watertank more than in a normal aquarium, while being absolutely low maintainance, needing food once every two weeks...

so, i would be glad to hear your opinions to this idea

thx
bunta*bun

[beejium]

I highly doubt they produce enough for plants. I keep newts myself and the tank needs to be very clean. The tanks require weekly 10% water changes. The T. Granulosa's and C. Pyrrhogaster's I have hate water flow from filters, as newts and salamanders generally do (and yes there kept separately). I found air driven sponge, and/or air stones to be the best filtration. Axolotls need even more care as they have external gills to pull the oxygen out of the water instead of internal lungs. I hate seeing my tanks reach more then 68*f, stress begins at 71*F. I had to move them to the basement, because the C. Pyrrhogaster's thought it was breeding time year round. it was a mess to say the least.
By normal aquarium you mean bare tank with a breathable lid and a few smooth rocks for hiding...right?

[bunta*bun]

I highly doubt they produce enough for plants.

I was told that they would produce much more ammonium, cause of them solely animal proteins, than fish. With enough bacterias producing nitrite and nitrate this should lead to a "better" grow fertilizer. Also, as opposed to fishtanks, the "water"plants in the axolotltanks do need no further fertilizer to grow, which indicated that they produce more than the fishes.

I keep newts myself and the tank needs to be very clean. The tanks require weekly 10% water changes. The T. Granulosa's and C. Pyrrhogaster's I have hate water flow from filters, as newts and salamanders generally do (and yes there kept separately). I found air driven sponge, and/or air stones to be the best filtration.

Your experience is pretty much congruent with what i read. With an outside air driven sponge filter it should be possible to avoid too much water flow, and heating (as caused by an inside pump) and still provide the axolotls with a friendly environment.
The water changes could be used for the plants - thinking of ebb and flow (drain to waste) style with a pond, where one would only need to insert fresh water with the feeding once or twice a week (at least in small grow setups).

Axolotls need even more care as they have external gills to pull the oxygen out of the water instead of internal lungs. I hate seeing my tanks reach more then 68*f, stress begins at 71*F. I had to move them to the basement, because the C. Pyrrhogaster's thought it was breeding time year round. it was a mess to say the least.

As long as the water is cold enough, which could be easily achieved in a dark tank, with regular fresh (cold) water and the cabin being placed inside my cool cellar :o)

By normal aquarium you mean bare tank with a breathable lid and a few smooth rocks for hiding...right?

Well, thats pretty much what i had in mind.
During the last days i acquired some axolotl, as well as some boxes that are big enough to be used as a basin.
I made a sketch of the setup that i am building (in my head - that is) at the moment to emphasize the general idea:




As can be seen,
Stage A would include the axolotltank in which two air pumps would be connected to two pipes (one pump per pipe - i forgot to paint the second pump), the longer one (one the right) causing the water in the tank to circulate and keeping alive the bacterias in the sponge, the shorter one (to the left) sending the water into stage B.
The length of the short pipe should be such, that the axolotl keep enough water in the tank until you refill it. Obviously a timer would be needed to start that pump only for needed intervals.

Stage B and C would be the grow chamber and the drain pond - so nothing spectacular there.

During bloom i will use additional ferts as the pondwater will mostly have nitrate in it.

Anway,i let you know how it turns out. (imaginary - as the Mistress would say )

[indifferent]

If you take an axolotl and inject it with iodine it will turn into a Tiger Salamander. Axolotls are extremely strange creatures, they are basically made from stem cells as they are the halfway stage between a larvae of a Tiger Salamander and a Tiger Salamander, but for some reason they are stuck at the halfway point, they never fully develop, but some iodine and bang, they finish their development and become a Tiger Salamander.

Do you know that all Axolotls in the world are descended from just 6 individuals that were shipped to Paris for study a century ago? They were only found in the wild in two lakes in central Mexico, one of which is now dried up and the other in underneath Mexico City and has long been turned into a system of underground canals and sewers, so there are no Axolotls left in their native environment.

No idea if their shit is any good for plants or not though!

[beejium]

that is an interesting design, i would like to see it at work. remember all salamanders and newts are escape artists. they will get stuck in unbelievable places. I woke up one day to see foot and belly prints on my floor, after putting shallow containers down everywhere i found my a t.granny in the bathroom resting on the base of the toilet he was fine, just chillen on the cool porcelain. I would just make sure that there are no small gaps your Axolotl could get stuck or hurt in. they can also jump quite high, so leave a little space air space at the top of part A if you can.

Don`t know much about them axolotls... but you could do a much simpler set-up it you would use apple snails instead.

They tolerate much higher temps and lower ph value..
also you could stuff a whole bunch of them into your reservoir and just feed them with cheap vegetables or simply common fish food..
According the the aquaristic page i read EACH applesnail produces as much waste (= nitrate) as a 10 cm feederfish...
In addition, they tend to be very very cheap because they produce offspring like stupid :-)

Using them snails, you could put the reservoirs on the lowest rack and and simply use a standard pump to get the water up to your plants - gravity will do the rest ;-)

Seriously dude - consider using apple snails, they even tolerate additives like ph-down and a fair ammount of additional ferts...

[MrFista]

Use an undergravel filter so the large poos are not transferred to your grow. Let the microbes in the gravel break it down and then pump it to your grow. Fish grow faster in well set up aquaponic systems they are superior to tanks but the nutrient levels required often limit the species folks use.

If you have say 250 ppm of something and pump it once an hour the plants get a hourly dose of 250ppm. But if you use a continuous flow, although the nutrient level is low, the plants have continual access to the nutes.

I have run a system on zero readable nitrate for over 4 years. The uptake matches the output, there are 6 kilos of fish in that system. I grow tomatoes peppers lettuce oregano, multiplying onions, celery, watercress and more in the system.

If you want to do this with axolotyls - go for it!

Remember to cycle the system up with tank water etc to add bacteria to the new substrate.

Good luck.

[jakesebastin]

That is quite a new idea to run the aquaponics system with axolotl instead of fishes. I have never ever seen such a kind of a system really. That is just ans new thought to me.