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Old 02-25-2010, 05:47 AM   #16
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Nice find hades. This info plus eden labs notes about sub-critial being better for botanical extractions should seal the deal. I guess we don't have to extract with a pipe bomb (well not a very strong one anyways). I think I want to have the option anyways. I will let you guys know what I put together.

Thanks for all the input.

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Old 02-25-2010, 05:37 PM   #17
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I'm sorry I didn't get through that whole article before I posted. It turns out that they did an experiment, which is at the very end of the document, which actually does find that super-critical levels with 2% ethanol added to the liquid CO2 is actually the most efficient method. They used a high CBD strain for this experiment, but the same applies if it were a high THC strain:
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The results illustrate that changing the extraction conditions from sub-critical to super-critical increases the solvating power of the CO2 and results in a higher recovery of the available CBD. However, the supercritical CO2 can now solubilise a wider range of compounds and the extraction of these additional compound has the effect of diluting the concentration of CBD in the extract to such an extent that it is now lower than that obtained for the sub-critical extraction. Consequently, the marginal additional recovery of available CBD from the raw material would not outweigh this disadvantage and demonstrates the use of supercritical conditions is not desirable.
This coincides with the method they present in the paper, but it goes on to dispute their own claim....
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The addition of 2% w/w absolute ethanol to supercritical CO2 as a modifier increases the recovery of the available CBD to >90%. Presumably the relatively polar cannabinoid is more soluble in the extract of increased polarity.

Interestingly, the concentration of CBD in the extract is increased slightly by the addition of polar modifier. This would seem to indicate that the co-extractable non-cannabinoid material present in the plant material is less polar than the target cannabinoid and hence the extraction of this material (the "ballast") is deselected when polarity is increased.

Thus, extraction of cannabis plant material with supercritical CO2 2% w/w ethanol provides an increase in recovery of the target active with no attendant penalty of loss of selectivity.

In Summary:

1. A switch from sub-critical to super-critical conditions produces little advantage in terms of overall recovery of cannabinoid from the raw material but does result in the disadvantage of reducing the active content of the extract.

2. The addition of 2% absolute ethanol modifier to supercritical CO2 results in a significant improvement in the recovery of cannabinoid from the raw material with no penalty of dilution of active content by co-extracted material.

Last edited by hades; 02-25-2010 at 05:39 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:00 AM   #18
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very interesting any updates??? im very interested
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:50 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by 3dDream View Post
BTW if people have access to papers:

I don't wanna buy it.
I was thinking about designing and building some sort extractor.

I uploaded the paper plus most of its references, which includes a book, as well as two other papers that are related to C02 extraction. I can't vouch for the usefullness of these since I don't have the time to read them yet.

A high volume approach would be to buy a CO2 tank that connects to a bunch of fittings, a pressure regulator, a heating section, and a collector.

These are the critical properties of CO2

304.21 K
31.06 C
87.91 F

7.383 MPa
72.86 atm
1070.81 psi

To reach the critical point of CO2, class 600 fittings are required as per ASME B16.5. Don't know how much those cost but they aren't cheap. I'd guess you could build the project for $100-$300, but I'm not sure.

I like the idea of just using dry ice in a 15 ml centrifuge tube. It wouldn't be critical C02, but I guess that isn't a problem if you aren't supplementing with ethanol.

I need to study for exams tho. The links below are mirrors of each other. If you find another article you need just post the DOI—this one for example is doi:10.1016/j.talanta.2004.05.049—or the next best thing is the author, title, year.
I made an email if you want to get a hold of me. It's dendrite210 [at] gmail.com


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Old 04-23-2010, 09:01 PM   #20
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i only dabbled into the articles so far but as i get further i will make a decision as to whether i will pursue an at home DIY version

at the moment i have a whole bunch of left over paintball co2 tanks and all kinds of fittings and steel braided line most of which is rated in excess of 3000psi

i just wanna plan out a setup before i try anything and blow something up.

im thinkin that the 12-20oz co2 tanks are going to be the best as they are cheap to fill so recovery of the intitial solvent isnt necessary. im just wondering if it would contain enough actual liquid co2 as i haveno clue as to the volume necessary.

lets keep this thread goin guys i wanna get away from the ethanol based solvents and see what i can do with this.

ill be back when im more educated on the processes already discussed
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:13 PM   #21
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the paint ball tank is intriguing how much est trimwould fit ???
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:20 AM   #22
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well i wouldnt put it in the tank itself.

i have special tanks with on/off valves built in so it would make realeasing the CO2 easy.

i would have to make a setup to do the extraction but the tank is acheap smaller source than an industrial sized tank
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:34 AM   #23
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I think that you my be able to pull many of the terpines, lemonine, asparagine, pinene and more viscous oils out of the product, but the weed will act like a wick and will do you no good. You would have better luck taking dried BHO and seperating the flavoring oils away from the THC. I'm not sure why one would want to do this as it will have a flavor that becomes less appealing the closer to pure THC you get. It will also have a lot closer high to a Marinol...you may need to consume cbd to enhance the effects. FWIW you should try taking BHO and those centerfuge tubes and doing the dry ice extraction with it...take the oils that fall out and put those on some schwagg and see if it magically tastes like the weed that the BHO was made from. This may very well be the future of "Blunt Helper". Imagine if people could get an oil additive that would give anybody's beasters the taste of OG, Diesel, Haze, etc.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:40 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ZEROorDIE View Post
well i wouldnt put it in the tank itself.

i have special tanks with on/off valves built in so it would make realeasing the CO2 easy.

i would have to make a setup to do the extraction but the tank is acheap smaller source than an industrial sized tank
anything new pics maybe of what you are workin with?? too bad wecant just use co2 dusters like in a bho
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:50 PM   #25
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anything new pics maybe of what you are workin with?? too bad wecant just use co2 dusters like in a bho
i dont have any trim or bud to experiment with right now as im taking a t-break to get a job and get my shit together

i was actually attempting to plan a setup similar to a bho extraction, except sealed. the co2 would shoot directly through some SS hosing to a sealed container with the bud/trim in it, which would then be heated but i dont have anything solid yet, sorry.

this may take some time as i have finals coming up and job interviews and such. i hate to keep you waiting but if i get to designing the system soon ill be sure to post up diagrams.

until then continue the quest for knowledge and be patient. i always come back



thats the type of tank im talking about. its a 20oz co2 tank for a paintball gun and thew little black knob can release the co2 all at once which seems perfect for small scall extractions
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:55 PM   #26
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Here is my simple minded design using liquid CO2 and heat to reach critical state.

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Old 05-04-2010, 11:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Wolf View Post
Here is my simple minded design using liquid CO2 and heat to reach critical state.

GW
GW nice lay out im liking what i see i have a guy workin on something for me hopefully it will be ready topost soon


you a 916 soldier as well??? rivercity
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:24 PM   #28
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[quote=nachohippie;3470270]GW nice lay out im liking what i see i have a guy workin on something for me hopefully it will be ready topost soon


you a 916 soldier as well??? rivercity[/quote

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Old 05-06-2010, 04:07 AM   #29
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a sister city cool
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:31 AM   #30
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well i will have some trim to play with and dont want to do bho so either co2 or qwiso hummmmmmmmmm....
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