[JuniorBalls]

Hey LEDGirl,

I've been off the site for a while, so I'm completely stoked to see there's now an LED grow section - this is hopefully what I'm intending to do, but I've seen so much conflicting information, I was wondering if you could clear a couple of things up for me?

1. Penetration - I often struggle to see how the LED grow lights can offer as much penetration through the canopy compared with HID's - but as I think about it, all I'm really thinking about is the increased temps and the white light - as the LED's are tailored to the correct wavelengths would I be correct in assuming that there's just far less 'wasted' light of the incorrect wavelengths? And basically, will they offer a similar degree of penetration?

2. Power rating - I like the sound of your outputs, certainly what they are compared to in terms of HID - my local hydro store sells similar units, which they say have been fully tested by themselves before they started to sell them, but they are very expensive - around £300.00 GBP for a 90 watt unit. They maintain that these are only literally equivalent to the same wattage HID bulb - so for a 600w set-up you'd need to run 6 of them, this becomes prohibitively expensive!

No point asking about yields etc, as the above with any nutrient regime would define that.

Do you sell or have agents who can sell in the UK?

Cheers!

[LEDGirl]

LED grow lights only offer similar penetration to HID lights, when used within their recommended parameters. For example, if you're trying to light a 8' x 8' area with a 180W UFO, you'd be kidding yourself. If you use that 180W UFO in a 3' x 3' area, you'd be very close to what a HID would do (providing that 180W has enough intensity) in terms of penetration. I grew with HID's for 4+ years prior to switching to LED, and my final HID setup was 4,000W. Even with that much power, and the lights being no further than 5' from my tray, my 3' tall plants still had small, airy buds on the bottom. So even the mighty 1000W (and several of them at that), have a hard time creating nice buds (lighter size) at the base of a 3' plant. In my own grows (and that of my friend), we see quarter sized buds towards the bottom of 3' tall plants using LED. They are equal in size, if not slightly larger than what we were previously experiencing under HID (she ran 3800W).

Recently a member had posted the actual % of light fallout at varying distances from our light, in respect to the same % from a HID. They found that our 60 degree lenses lose intensity less quickly (although only by a few %) as the light travels away from the unit, vs a HID. While our 1W bulbs certainly don't have the intensity of a single 400W light source, putting enough of them together in a small enough area, can produce comparable results from top to bottom. Likewise, the LED's are targeted color outputs matching the points at which plants convert light into energy most efficiently, meaning very little (if any) light gets wasted. With HID, plants need to filter out the available light that is usable.

As far as equivalency goes, my honest opinion is that you need 2.5x - 3x more power with a brand new HID, to create the same results as you get using LED. So in order for your average gardener to get similar results as our 126W LED, you would need between 315W and 378W of HID.

To answer your last question, no we do not currently have retailers in the UK. We sell to the UK quite frequently though, and make the units with the proper plug and voltage for you guys so there is no need for a converter.

[HempiPukets]

As the topic is "a couple of questions from someone..." I think it's not totally wrong from a newbie like me to ask for a couple of easy questions related to LED's from LEDGirl, if you don't mind answering.

Question:
Can you give us full information in order to make the decision in which circumstances the LED system is better choice than other light sources - when will your LED systems be the right choice over others, why and for who is it for?

For example can you provide a comparison between LED vs other light sources that take into count:

A. Price of the system (initial investment)
B. Running costs of the system (electricity costs)
C. Lifetime & robustness (is there real data about led systems?)
D. Availability, price and lead time of spare parts or repair services
E. Total Cost of Ownerships for an example project or multiple projects
F. "Manufacturing time" for final products produced (Is LED faster/slower than HID or CFL?)
G. Yield of final product produced
(H. Quality of final product produced)

I can't find any reason why should I buy a LED over CFLs or HIDs. At the moment LED is expensive and no data about reliability or how well they really perform is available.

If I buy a HPS and the ballast or lamp breaks down, I can get a new one within 1 - 14 hours. How about that LED - warranty does not include lost crops does it if repairing takes more than a couple of days including shipping? Should I buy 2 or 3 led systems just in case one of them breaks down?

If one of my 10 CFL lamps goes out - I still have 9 working and it is easy and fast to buy and replace a CLF. What if some of the leds go out - should I repair it myself or ship it back to the vendor? How long will it take and what are the costs etc?

LED is for who:
1. Heavy smokers?
2. Pro ganja growers & vendors?
3. Casual growers for personal use?
4. People with extra cash who don't know better things to do with it than buying extra growing gear.
5...

I think LED will be great after the systems get cheaper and there are more vendors for them. Of course for this we need people to buy them...but why?

Originally Posted by LEDGirl

Recently a member had posted the actual % of light fallout at varying distances from our light, in respect to the same % from a HID. They found that our 60 degree lenses lose intensity less quickly (although only by a few %) as the light travels away from the unit, vs a HID.

Has the issue of "droop" (The drop in lumen and increase in heat if the LED unit is run off of a higher AMP breaker as opposed to lower amperage) been addressed? Searched but found nothing.

Anybody with any info would be greatly appreciated!

[GreenThumbBumb]

Originally Posted by HempiPukets

As the topic is "a couple of questions from someone..." I think it's not totally wrong from a newbie like me to ask for a couple of easy questions related to LED's from LEDGirl, if you don't mind answering.

Question:
Can you give us full information in order to make the decision in which circumstances the LED system is better choice than other light sources - when will your LED systems be the right choice over others, why and for who is it for?

For example can you provide a comparison between LED vs other light sources that take into count:

A. Price of the system (initial investment)
B. Running costs of the system (electricity costs)
C. Lifetime & robustness (is there real data about led systems?)
D. Availability, price and lead time of spare parts or repair services
E. Total Cost of Ownerships for an example project or multiple projects
F. "Manufacturing time" for final products produced (Is LED faster/slower than HID or CFL?)
G. Yield of final product produced
(H. Quality of final product produced)

I can't find any reason why should I buy a LED over CFLs or HIDs. At the moment LED is expensive and no data about reliability or how well they really perform is available.

If I buy a HPS and the ballast or lamp breaks down, I can get a new one within 1 - 14 hours. How about that LED - warranty does not include lost crops does it if repairing takes more than a couple of days including shipping? Should I buy 2 or 3 led systems just in case one of them breaks down?

If one of my 10 CFL lamps goes out - I still have 9 working and it is easy and fast to buy and replace a CLF. What if some of the leds go out - should I repair it myself or ship it back to the vendor? How long will it take and what are the costs etc?

LED is for who:
1. Heavy smokers?
2. Pro ganja growers & vendors?
3. Casual growers for personal use?
4. People with extra cash who don't know better things to do with it than buying extra growing gear.
5...

I think LED will be great after the systems get cheaper and there are more vendors for them. Of course for this we need people to buy them...but why?

You should really read the forums before you post.

[turdbird]

How are PAR watts measured? Would the standard 60 degree LED fixture have the same PAR as the 30 degree fixture? Is PAR measured at a point a certain distance from the bulb or is it more like a measure of the total PAR output of the bulb in all directions?

Edit: OK, on the HGL website it shows numbers for photon flux density and illuminance. These numbers don't mean much to the layman without anything to compare them to. Do you know where I can find this kind of data for HPS?

[LEDGirl]

Originally Posted by turdbird

How are PAR watts measured? Would the standard 60 degree LED fixture have the same PAR as the 30 degree fixture? Is PAR measured at a point a certain distance from the bulb or is it more like a measure of the total PAR output of the bulb in all directions?

Edit: OK, on the HGL website it shows numbers for photon flux density and illuminance. These numbers don't mean much to the layman without anything to compare them to. Do you know where I can find this kind of data for HPS?

PAR (if you read our website which explains it), is a measurement of micromoles per square meter, per second. However many micromoles/sq meter you have, establishes your Photosynthetic Photon flux density. If you know the PAR data for the specific type of plant you grow (show a few on our site), you can determine exactly how many micromoles you need for optimum growth within your area, for your specific plant. The 30 degree lens does change the par output data related to horizontal and vertical distance from the light, but it does not create any more PAR output from the bulb. It simply focuses the PAR output into a smaller area, which increases the density within that area.

HEMPI - PLEASE DO A SEARCH, READ OUR WEBSITE, OR READ SOME THREADS ON THIS FORUM, AS MOST OF YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED. If you have any others after that, I'd be more than happy to address them. Thank you.

[HempiPukets]

Originally Posted by GreenThumbBumb

You should really read the forums before you post.

Yes, allmost all information can be found from the forum from individual threads and by combining them I can get information for myself - done that. Also there are comparison grows between LEDs and HPSs going on which have not been published. Waiting for them.

Still, I think it is the salesman (or saleswoman in this case) who is responsible for consulting the customers. Or atleast should be. Business is business and hydro-grow-leds does not make an exception?

I think it is good marketing from the company to let the potential customers know exactly what are the pros and cons of their systems. This includes risks etc. That's just my opinion.

So I would like to see if LEDGirl here is thinking about the customers or just about the company - are they able to come down to the customer level and tell some of their potential customers "do not buy a LED system as it is not the best option for you - buy a CFL system or HPS instead" when this is actually true. Like the thread starter asked if they have a reseller in UK - the response: "We sell to the UK quite frequently though, and make the units with the proper plug and voltage for you guys so there is no need for a converter" was just typical salesman/-woman response who has €€€ marks in her eyes without considering the customer point of view. I would have rather seen a response like "no, and you might want to think about the risks about warranty issues and customs dutys and taxes for ordering a unit from US to UK".

I give respect to all information provided already - they really have disclosed a lot of information about components, manufacturing locations etc and it is alraedy more than most companies would do.

[GreenThumbBumb]

Originally Posted by HempiPukets

Yes, allmost all information can be found from the forum from individual threads and by combining them I can get information for myself - done that. Also there are comparison grows between LEDs and HPSs going on which have not been published. Waiting for them.

Still, I think it is the salesman (or saleswoman in this case) who is responsible for consulting the customers. Or atleast should be. Business is business and hydro-grow-leds does not make an exception?

I think it is good marketing from the company to let the potential customers know exactly what are the pros and cons of their systems. This includes risks etc. That's just my opinion.

So I would like to see if LEDGirl here is thinking about the customers or just about the company - are they able to come down to the customer level and tell some of their potential customers "do not buy a LED system as it is not the best option for you - buy a CFL system or HPS instead" when this is actually true. Like the thread starter asked if they have a reseller in UK - the response: "We sell to the UK quite frequently though, and make the units with the proper plug and voltage for you guys so there is no need for a converter" was just typical salesman/-woman response who has €€€ marks in her eyes without considering the customer point of view. I would have rather seen a response like "no, and you might want to think about the risks about warranty issues and customs dutys and taxes for ordering a unit from US to UK".

I give respect to all information provided already - they really have disclosed a lot of information about components, manufacturing locations etc and it is alraedy more than most companies would do.

Yea but she has been her for months defending herself and answering all those questions, so i kinda understand what your saying but this has all been discussed before with other customers just like you, there isnt any need for her to keep defending herself about her information.

I dont think its very smart for a company to list the cons of their product, most successful companies wouldnt do that.

Its not her responsibility to worry about what a person has to do to order from their country, she told them that she doesnt have a retailer in UK(question answered) then suggested that she can build it to work for them. Sorry i just think that your questions are way behind.

[LEDGirl]

Originally Posted by HempiPukets

"We sell to the UK quite frequently though, and make the units with the proper plug and voltage for you guys so there is no need for a converter" was just typical salesman/-woman response who has €€€ marks in her eyes without considering the customer point of view. I would have rather seen a response like "no, and you might want to think about the risks about warranty issues and customs dutys and taxes for ordering a unit from US to UK".

While you are certainly entitled to your opinions, if you are a CUSTOMER and have questions for me personally as a CUSTOMER, then please send them to me via email on our website, as our CUSTOMERS do. Like GreenThumb pointed out, answering them over and over and over again on the forums is like beating a dead horse. Like you stated, I've already provided far more information than you'll gather from any other manufacturer. So unless you are here to simply spread discourse with your postings, please have a little respect. If you have concerns, voice them to me and I will address them, but don't go blasting the forums with 15 posts behind your name, asking me to provide MORE than what I already have.

As per the overseas customers, OUR WARRANTY COVERS THEM. 99%+ of packages have gone through international customs without a cent being charged to the receiver. Likewise we have had customers with defective units in Countries like Australia, where we ship them a NEW unit (free of charge), and PAY to have their old unit shipped back to us. So it doesn't matter WHERE IN THE WORLD you are, you get treated like you bought within the USA.