"Cubing a Clone", MrSoul's "Cube" theory...

Mr Soul is probably most famous for originating Cinderella 99 aka Cindy99
[as related in an internet post by "MrSoul", June 2000]

"...Bros Grimm have been employing a method called "Cubing a Clone" to create strains from unique female plants for years now.

Read the following and you'll understand:

Cubing a clone is a way to create a unique seed line (a “strain”) modeled after a currently existing female individual.

The goal is to create seeds from which the females replicate the phenotype of the original female.

Obviously the chosen female should be an outstanding specimen.

Procedure:
CONTINUOUSLY KEEP A MOTHER IN THE VEGETATIVE STATE TO PROVIDE CLONES

1. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the pollen of a related male, preferably her father or a brother.
The resulting seeds contain 1/2 the original female's genes and 1/2 those of the male.
An unrelated male won’t have the Y-chromosome of the chosen female’s family & therefore any Y-linked traits of the family will always be missing in the seedline.

2. Grow the above seeds & flower them. Collect an equal quantity of pollen from each selected male and mix it together.

3. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the above pollen.
These seeds contain 1/2 the original female’s genes plus 1/4 more because the male used was 1/2 her genetics too.
I call this generation “.75” to capture the idea that it’s 3/4 of the original female’s genetics.

4. Grow the above seeds & flower them.
Collect an equal quantity of pollen from each selected male and mix it together.

5. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the above pollen.
These seeds contain 7/8 the original genes (1/2+3/8), the ".88" generation.

6. Grow the above seeds & flower them.
Collect an equal quantity of pollen from each selected male and mix it together.

7. Pollinate a flowering clone of the original female with the above pollen.
These seeds contain 15/16 the original genes (1/2+7/16), the ".94" generation.

Theoretically, this will be a stable, true-breeding seed line from which all females are replicas of the original. "



A Cinderella Story...

I've been seeing a lot of posts from people asking for the "Cinderella Story", so here it is: (as MrSoul proceeds to relate the story...)
In 1997, I discovered a few seeds in a bud of Jack Herer I bought @ "Sensi Smile" coffeeshop in Amsterdam while there to buy seeds. I didn't expect much when I grew them, but one of those seeds from the JH bud produced a very special female that I call "Princess".

Therefore Princess' mother was a Jack Herer (IF we can believe what Sensi Smile printed on the package) and her father is a totally unidentified mystery plant.

I also got 2 more females (Genius & Cafe'Girl) & several males from those seeds. I used pollen from one of the males on a heavy-yielding, dense, resinous ShivaSkunk (from Sensi Seedbank) female, then grew the resulting seeds to get males to produce pollen to cross Princess with, beginning the cubing process.

The first generation of seeds from Princess were called P.50 because they were 50% Princess. I used males from the P.50 generation to back-cross to Princess to get P.75 and again back-crossed with the P.75 pollen to get P.88 and again with the P.88 pollen to get P.94 which is "Cinderella 99", a cubed version of Princess.

The name "Cinderella" was chosen because of the parallels between this story and the well-known fairy tale in which Cinderella becomes a Princess despite her humble beginning.

MrSoul
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IMB

MrSoul elaborates further...in another post...

MrSoul elaborates further...in another post...

"Princess is a female which resulted from a seed found in a Jack Herer bud I bought in Amsterdam near the Sensi Seed Bank at "Coffeeshop Sensi Smile". The bud came in a 2 gr. cello-pack with the Sensi logo; I expected sinsemilla, but it had about 10 seeds so I assume she's an F2 JH. Her characteristics were so fine I wanted to create seeds that would "replicate" this plant. She has the KILLER Haze-influenced high with the most DELICIOUS pineapple /evil scent, 50 day maturation in 12/12, and incredible resin production, doesn't stretch - yet clearly Sativa-dominant! Last but not least: Never a hint of hermaphrodism after 2 years of cloning & many different styles of grow.

I wanted to "cube" Princess but add a little beef to her branches because the buds were always too heavy at harvest and branches needed staking to keep from flopping over. I crossed my ShivaSkunk female with one of the males from the same group of seeds that Princess came from. THIS cross produced a male which was then crossed to Princess, creating "P.50" (using a shorthand notation I developed to indicate the fraction of Princess genes in the cross).
Each generation is the result of crossing a male from the previous generation to Princess herself (incestuous, I know).
Blow-by-blow description of the generations:
P.50 = Heavy, single-cola type plants with mellow high (too much influence from the ShivaSkunk) Sweet fruity scent/flavor. Unstable in most traits - for example, 10 days difference in fastest/slowest maturation period in a group of 20 seedlings.
P.75 = Plants leaning MUCH more in the direction of Princess in floral cluster and bud structure, scent/flavor turned more "tropical" like pineapple. The stability was becoming better - two major phenotypes; short & dense (potent too) or tall/HUGE (Not so potent).
P.88 = Renamed Cinderella 88 when first released on the market. It grows fast and produces excellent yields of FROSTY buds in 7 weeks! Generally uniform seedlings with minor differences in floral formation and some height variance, but the smoke is quite consistent from all plants - Dense, heavy nuggets of fruity scented & flavored (like wild berries) and covered in resin glands, the dried buds have distinctly ORANGE pistils.
And now P.94 = Cinderella 99. This project has been a huge success. The strain has been embraced by the "net"work of growers with rave reviews.

MrSoul

"MrSoul" speaks further on Cindy...

"MrSoul" speaks further on Cindy...

"I personally think the plants these Cinderella 99 seeds produce are every bit as good as a cutting from Princess herself (or better).
I say better because the flavor of no two plants is "identical"; there's a personality to all living things. Like Princess herself, Cinderella is sweet & fruity to the palette and nose, and when you take a hit you're BLASTED...with the same "racy" high as Princess!
The improvement comes in the yield department; 25% greater yield and a stronger branch structure, which I accomplished by starting with some ShivaSkunk genes in the original father in the cubing process.
I knew I'd blend out the majority of the traits from ShivaSkunk in the cubing process, but I was hoping to incorporate the ShivaSkunk's stronger branches because Princess had a tendency to need supports in the final two weeks of flowering. As it turns out, I got lucky and it worked.
The name suits the strain IMO - it's a true Cinderella Story." - MrSoul





"Jack Herer is an unstable strain bred from an unequal combination of Sk#1, NL#5, and Haze. Crossing a male and female Jack Herer creates an F2 generation which has a HUGE number of possible recombinations of the genes. I grew out some Jack Herer F2s and discovered a SPECIAL one, "Princess", which has many improvements on the original JH such as a shorter flowering time, denser bud structure and pineapple scent/flavour. I have been continually back crossing Princess with her male offspring (generation after generation) which eventually creates a stabilized strain having her special characteristics found reliably in most females grown from those seeds. Each generation is composed of a 50% genetic contribution from Princess (since she's the seed parent) and a 50% contribution from the pollen parent (which also has an increasing percentage of Princess' genetics with each generation). The progression goes: P.50, P.75, P.88, P.94, and P.97...at that point it's considered stabilized (a male and female P.97 can be crossed and the offspring are essentially the same as the parents). I have been VERY pleased with the way this project is going; even the P.75 generation was rather stable in the sense that the individuals were all rather uniform and HIGH quality. ...So, you see, since I have combined genes from Sk#1, NL#5, and Haze, creating a plant which has characteristics distinctly different than Jack Herer, and I'm creating a stable strain from this plant... it's legitimately MY work." - MrSoul


"Each generation exhibited a MAJOR jump in potency (P.50 was rather mellow)...P.75 has a well-balanced body/mind high with a citrus flavour, Cinderella 88 is cerebral & paralyzing with a tropical fruit flavour, and Cinderella 99 is "TRIP WEED"...with more of the fruity flavour and speedy effect from Princess." - MrSoul


"...Princess smells very much like pineapple both during flowering and when dried, but there's this "evil" scent in it too, like rotting meat, which has been linked with the most devastating weed (notably the Durban/Thai hybrid from SSSC, years ago). The taste is connoisseur quality when it's cured; VERY fruity. The high is almost too intense for a lot of people; Dr. Atomic actually refused to smoke any on our second meeting, after getting rather "hazed and confused" on the first sampling we did together a couple of weeks before, so he decided to try Shiva Skunk and found that more mellow and to his liking. Two hits of Princess will induce your body to tremble involuntarily and your heart to race and paranoid thoughts... very much like Haze, but not quite as intense. It also has a "creeper" quality that makes it easy to over-indulge...you get progressively higher during the first 10 minutes after smoking. Look at the May '98 issue of High Times' centerfold and find "Yellow Cab"...that's EXACTLY what the finished Princess buds look like. The "frosting" of stalked, capitate trichomes on the flowers and smaller leaves gives them a "furry" appearance much like Haze."
MrSoul


"I'd personally advise you to "top" the C-99's at their 4th branch set (about 3-4 weeks old) then when the branches grow to be about a foot long (about 6-8 weeks old) you should flower them. You'll know which plants are female BEFORE you ever switch the light cycle to 12/12. Cinderella plants always show preflowers at the 5-7 branch sets during the VEGETATIVE stage... when they're a little over a month old. Mr Soul "

{"8^)_~

"Marijuana? Why, it's nothing more than a harmless giggle." - John Lennon.

Excellent read! That was Many words quoted from a man of few. Thanks IM for sharing.

Thank You Boggled! Always there with the interestin reads.

thanks bro,
bartender187

Excellent find, another fine addition to our info archive.......many thanks.
Peace

intersting read....so those f2's out there arent f2's seems Cindy is a bx...peace

excellent reading material

yeah no wonder i love her so much

Dr. D said:

intersting read....so those f2's out there arent f2's seems Cindy is a bx...peace

Click to expand...

whats bein called F2s is actually the first incross of the cube. unless of course someone has a princess plant, then its a 5th BX, LOL.

nice point bro, Ive just recently had this explained to me

CBF

bump..

Thank you for posting this I.M Boggled!!!!! Great!

It worked,once,for them,and is only a Theory.
'Cubing' is,essentially,a myth,but BX's and incrosses,and selection-for-traits over successive generations WILL stabilise a Special Clone's traits,IF you follow procedure-and this 'cubing',essentially,ain't it.
It is a fun article,however misinforming-and I once actively subscribed to this theory,and found it lacking,lest I be accused of speaking w/out having Walked It.

Cheers!

So wot u saying Rez? obviously this is a bx he has made and the resullting seeds are incross, yeh? so wot is cubing? iv heard of it but onlly seen it explained in this thread...i thought from wot id just read that cubing is bx'ing has he just wrongly named bx'ing cubing?...thanks

the cube theory is wrong as its more of a mathmatical formula than true genetic inheritance.
he basically bx'ed to the original female 4 times so the correct terminology for cinderella99 would be 4th bx i would think.
the seeds gypsy has are the 1st incross of the 4th bx

from soul
I used pollen from one of the males on a heavy-yielding, dense, resinous ShivaSkunk (from Sensi Seedbank) female, then grew the resulting seeds to get males to produce pollen to cross Princess with, beginning the cubing process.


therefore the original male used in the 1st bx was a wee bit of a polyhybrid
ie male from same bagseed as princess which is meant to be jack herer x unknown male x shiva skunk which is a hybrid to start with.
jack already has 3 lines in its parentage so adding the extra unknown male would pretty much make it a genetic mess as far as breeding goes i woulda thought.
also i would have thought that using pollen from multiple males in each bx would lead to not knowing which male imparts beneficial traits to the line or which carries negative traits as each male will impart its own genetic mix and they certainly won't be identical males genetically.
whereas choosing 1 or 2 males max and keeping the lines apart so you know what traits the males put in would seem more logical if trying to isolate particular traits.
i may be speaking complete bull so correct me if i'm way off

Hi gr33nz yeh i think ur right there...i kno it goes beyond maths as u cant control the genes(completely)...so cubing is more a mathematical term for it?
obviously wen bx'ing u look for the particular traits u want from the mother to get it as genetically close to in your finished product...so now i see why Rez is saying it doesnt wirk cuz its relying on maths and not mendels law thats cleared that up for me thanks Gr33nz im a bit slow today lol

yeah... gr33nz... i would have thought a super poly hybrid would have been a lot of work to breed with...

the idea ..from what i gathered... is that they looked at each plant as 1+1..
the problem here is that if you don't really, really know the strains your working with.. and all the genetic variation of their siblings.. it can be hard to stabelize a strain... there is a whole lot of unseen genetic information with these plants.. and what matters isnt just the plants them selves..but what went into them..

well whichever way u look at it, it obviously worked due to the fact he got wot he wanted in the end result....now i dunno how stable these beans came out cause iv never grown em but nough peeps here have and from wot iv heard and seen enough peeps get the pineapple pheno which resembles the original Princess, right? so im assume(stood on my tip toes) that the resulting seeds from the 1st incross were pretty stable?

Cinderella,and the other seeds they found,from Dutch Coffeeshop bagseed,were simply a lucky find.
That whole line is based,theoretically,on Jack Herer-at least that was what the bag was labelled that the Grimms bought.
C99 x C99 gets you more C99....and what are called 'C99 f2s' are really Cinderealla 99,BX#3,Incross#1....
Cinderella's an Inbred Line,quintessentially.

GREAT POST IM BOGGLED!
C99 is such a GREAT strain, the breeders definately showed their skills in producing such a fine seed stock that alot of others have used, not only that the plants are fucking out of this world! Mad props to Mr Soul and Sly - ciao