Is there a standard water ratio for pot size on a drip system ?
- Thread starter Centrum
- Start date
Bigbillyboy05
Member
no, dont think of it like that. its more about how deveolped the plant is in the current pot.right now im giving 32oz a day in 2 gallons and going up every week.
yes, there are standards & formulas... basically, greenhouse crop production... the greenhouse is the controlled environment of the garden... many, many variables... same techniques & formulas used by food producers. they have to know these #'s, as it is a business to them & ea drop is an expense in the 30-day business cycle. more water consumption=more expenses (bills payable). must be down to the drop... waste is limited; whereas most hobbyists do not even measure the water consumption as an expense. most only focus on '1k, 2k, 10k', etc... considering water negligible expense...
when, in fact, clean water is the most valuable resource on planet earth...
those #'s may be a bit excessive...
also, many garden environment factors affect rates...
1) vapor pressure deficit (rh). or, how much is dehumidified in same 24 hr period.
2) cultivar(s). mono or multi cropping. different strains/cuts drink different amounts. pure i's can drink little. i/s-s can drink much. depends on specific cuts.
3) stage of maturity. the rate @ which plant consume water is not linear. not linear during the day, nor thru the season. is dependent upon transpiration rates (which factor in vpd (rh)) & daily stomata open/close signals, which are temp dependent.
4) style of growing. will the plants be flowered @ 6", 10", 24"? sog? tree? bush? free form?
5) container size & media.
however, there are benchmarks to @ least make upper & lower limits...
how much water to supply
the amount of water required in affected by the type of media, or media mix, & the size or tyype of container/bed.
proper watering should provide 10% more water than is necessary so that leaching will reduce salts & good fert distribution will occur.
frequent light sprinklings induce shallow rooting & may increase soluble salt concentrations.
can take some standardized examples & extrapolate a mean...
estimated daily water requirements
crop---------------------------gallons of water
bench crops----------------------------0.4 gal/ft^2
potted plants---------------------------0.5 gal/ft^2
mums, hydrangea-----------------------1.5 gal/ft^2
roses-----------------------------------0.7 gal/ft^2 of bed
tomatoes-------------------------------0.25 gal/ft^2 of bed
nursery containers----------------------0.3 gal/ft^2
averaging these off, we have ~0.6 gallons per square foot. a square foot, of course, is 1 dimensional.
would have to know the container size to give accurate #'s... but same principle applies...
can convert ft^2 dimensions to ft^3 dimensions once container size known...
for purposes of this post, presume 5 gal buckets of fully mature plants...
presuming garden requires 0.6 gals of water, per day, per plant, in a 6 plant garden... we have,
.6*6=3.6 gals per day
+ .10, or 10% for leaching, we have
3.6*.10=.36
3.6+.36=3.96 gallons, or ~4 gallons
so, the total volume of water required is 3.96 gal, or ~4 gal per day - max, for a mature 6 plant garden... this include 10% excess water/solution to fully displace any potential salt build up. that is ~85 ounces of water/solution per day. or, 1/2 gal+1 pint...
this amount is, of course, a rough estimate based on a mean of various crops, w/out container size or cultivar specifics... should be plenty of water; more than like too much... especially if not growing trees.
so, in imagination, vegged under 1k's in 5 gal buckets, they may consume 1/2 gal a day... max maybe 80oz; which is that 1/2 gal+the pint. this amount applied to drench/flush/saturate thoroughly...... no fictitious plant consume 1 gal per day consumption, w 4*4*4'+ tree...this is @ peak consumption. ordinarily, they may only require 32oz if watering daily, or less... or slightly more... maybe 48oz max... depends. as the rate @ which plants drink water is not necessarily linear. though that is strived for... all in imaginary garden...
an imaginary 5 gal bucket of solution may completely drench ~12 imaginary plants, & give run-off, w/ a 2" hole, or many holes drilled, into sides of 5 gal buckets...
that is
5*128/12=53.33 oz... per plant. ~10oz >than 1/2 gal.
that amount should cause run-off from 5 gal bucket, if 2" hole(s) @ bottom...
that amount may last for 1-2 days w/ a 4'+ plant, in 5 gal bucket. if water again next day, media may be saturated...
comes down to indv watering preference, really... some water daily, in a coco-based media. in imaginary garden, prefer for water to evaporate in media slightly; also there is still water in mini-res in 2" @ bottom of bucket... no need to water next day... whether wick is in external basin or not... some may/will disagree... all seem to water slightly differently.
if, said amount is applied, w/in 12 hrs, 3/4 of that 5 gal amount may have been dehumidifed. ph of the water extracted from the room (~6.8-~7.1 ph) may be greater than input (~5.2-~6.0 ph, depending on what element(s) want to get thru to plant)... @ certain stages of maturity... in fiction.
the ppm/ec of the dehumidified water (output) ~1/2-1/3 of input, or 560ppm/.8 ec (nutra-wand meter). input 5.2-6.0 ph, 1400-2240ppm, which corresponds to 2.0-3.2 ec...
may verify that the plants have extracted dissolved solids from the water & inserted hydrogen atoms into the water in the process... what is supoosed to occur (<ph in run-off water). this can be checked against plant run-off water as well...
can inversely determine if too much water is given by the amount of water dehumidified... that is 1 way to know if they actually drank it:
only 1-2% of the total water provided to plants & absorbed by roots is used in photosynthesis...
98% of water provided to roots passes thru the stomata into the atmosphere as water vapor...
ie, increasing rh & lowering vapor pressure deficit. if this water is not removed, the external water vapor+air pressure may impact further transpiration & thus steady water uptake & expulsion.
monitoring/manipulating vpd (rh) may be a factor is determining how much to water...
temps (root, ambient & actual leaf) may also greatly influence water uptake & expulsion, as temps are what generally make stomata open/close, & thus exchange water vapor & gases (co2; oxygen) w/ the environment...
once container sizes are known, can then estimate actual amount of media required & total water volume required for entire season...
hope this helps. enjoy your garden!
when, in fact, clean water is the most valuable resource on planet earth...
those #'s may be a bit excessive...
also, many garden environment factors affect rates...
1) vapor pressure deficit (rh). or, how much is dehumidified in same 24 hr period.
2) cultivar(s). mono or multi cropping. different strains/cuts drink different amounts. pure i's can drink little. i/s-s can drink much. depends on specific cuts.
3) stage of maturity. the rate @ which plant consume water is not linear. not linear during the day, nor thru the season. is dependent upon transpiration rates (which factor in vpd (rh)) & daily stomata open/close signals, which are temp dependent.
4) style of growing. will the plants be flowered @ 6", 10", 24"? sog? tree? bush? free form?
5) container size & media.
however, there are benchmarks to @ least make upper & lower limits...
how much water to supply
the amount of water required in affected by the type of media, or media mix, & the size or tyype of container/bed.
proper watering should provide 10% more water than is necessary so that leaching will reduce salts & good fert distribution will occur.
frequent light sprinklings induce shallow rooting & may increase soluble salt concentrations.
can take some standardized examples & extrapolate a mean...
estimated daily water requirements
crop---------------------------gallons of water
bench crops----------------------------0.4 gal/ft^2
potted plants---------------------------0.5 gal/ft^2
mums, hydrangea-----------------------1.5 gal/ft^2
roses-----------------------------------0.7 gal/ft^2 of bed
tomatoes-------------------------------0.25 gal/ft^2 of bed
nursery containers----------------------0.3 gal/ft^2
averaging these off, we have ~0.6 gallons per square foot. a square foot, of course, is 1 dimensional.
would have to know the container size to give accurate #'s... but same principle applies...
can convert ft^2 dimensions to ft^3 dimensions once container size known...
for purposes of this post, presume 5 gal buckets of fully mature plants...
presuming garden requires 0.6 gals of water, per day, per plant, in a 6 plant garden... we have,
.6*6=3.6 gals per day
+ .10, or 10% for leaching, we have
3.6*.10=.36
3.6+.36=3.96 gallons, or ~4 gallons
so, the total volume of water required is 3.96 gal, or ~4 gal per day - max, for a mature 6 plant garden... this include 10% excess water/solution to fully displace any potential salt build up. that is ~85 ounces of water/solution per day. or, 1/2 gal+1 pint...
this amount is, of course, a rough estimate based on a mean of various crops, w/out container size or cultivar specifics... should be plenty of water; more than like too much... especially if not growing trees.
so, in imagination, vegged under 1k's in 5 gal buckets, they may consume 1/2 gal a day... max maybe 80oz; which is that 1/2 gal+the pint. this amount applied to drench/flush/saturate thoroughly...... no fictitious plant consume 1 gal per day consumption, w 4*4*4'+ tree...this is @ peak consumption. ordinarily, they may only require 32oz if watering daily, or less... or slightly more... maybe 48oz max... depends. as the rate @ which plants drink water is not necessarily linear. though that is strived for... all in imaginary garden...
an imaginary 5 gal bucket of solution may completely drench ~12 imaginary plants, & give run-off, w/ a 2" hole, or many holes drilled, into sides of 5 gal buckets...
that is
5*128/12=53.33 oz... per plant. ~10oz >than 1/2 gal.
that amount should cause run-off from 5 gal bucket, if 2" hole(s) @ bottom...
that amount may last for 1-2 days w/ a 4'+ plant, in 5 gal bucket. if water again next day, media may be saturated...
comes down to indv watering preference, really... some water daily, in a coco-based media. in imaginary garden, prefer for water to evaporate in media slightly; also there is still water in mini-res in 2" @ bottom of bucket... no need to water next day... whether wick is in external basin or not... some may/will disagree... all seem to water slightly differently.
if, said amount is applied, w/in 12 hrs, 3/4 of that 5 gal amount may have been dehumidifed. ph of the water extracted from the room (~6.8-~7.1 ph) may be greater than input (~5.2-~6.0 ph, depending on what element(s) want to get thru to plant)... @ certain stages of maturity... in fiction.
the ppm/ec of the dehumidified water (output) ~1/2-1/3 of input, or 560ppm/.8 ec (nutra-wand meter). input 5.2-6.0 ph, 1400-2240ppm, which corresponds to 2.0-3.2 ec...
may verify that the plants have extracted dissolved solids from the water & inserted hydrogen atoms into the water in the process... what is supoosed to occur (<ph in run-off water). this can be checked against plant run-off water as well...
can inversely determine if too much water is given by the amount of water dehumidified... that is 1 way to know if they actually drank it:
only 1-2% of the total water provided to plants & absorbed by roots is used in photosynthesis...
98% of water provided to roots passes thru the stomata into the atmosphere as water vapor...
ie, increasing rh & lowering vapor pressure deficit. if this water is not removed, the external water vapor+air pressure may impact further transpiration & thus steady water uptake & expulsion.
monitoring/manipulating vpd (rh) may be a factor is determining how much to water...
temps (root, ambient & actual leaf) may also greatly influence water uptake & expulsion, as temps are what generally make stomata open/close, & thus exchange water vapor & gases (co2; oxygen) w/ the environment...
once container sizes are known, can then estimate actual amount of media required & total water volume required for entire season...
hope this helps. enjoy your garden!
buddin_904
Member
size of the plants and "temps (root, ambient & actual leaf) may also greatly influence water uptake & expulsion, as temps are what generally make stomata open/close, & thus exchange water vapor & gases (co2; oxygen) w/ the environment..." as said by mistress
are huge factors
but shit, i cant top that super long post.....were u blazed when u wrote that mistress!? maybe some haze??
are huge factors
but shit, i cant top that super long post.....were u blazed when u wrote that mistress!? maybe some haze??
Okay for instance.
I use 3 gallon pots and i was giving about 30 ounces of water every two days unless they where dry and needed.
My RH is 40% my Night temps are about 62 -65.
My day temps are about 72.
This room has 3 x 600 watt HPS
1 Intake fan, 3 exhaust and 3 oscillating fan.
Plants are vegged for about 15 days and start flowering at about 10- 12 inches.
They Flower up to about 18 - 24 inches.
I would like to switch to a drip system and 1 gallon pots.
Run to waste.
With an EC of 1.0 from beginning to end.
PH 5.8
Probably 1 week of Veg and flowered at 7 or 8 inches.
with a finishing height of about 15 inches is my guess.
Would 24 ounces of water drip to waste be too much for 24 hour period
at a feeding schedule set to 3xdaily at 8 ounces each feed ?
I use 3 gallon pots and i was giving about 30 ounces of water every two days unless they where dry and needed.
My RH is 40% my Night temps are about 62 -65.
My day temps are about 72.
This room has 3 x 600 watt HPS
1 Intake fan, 3 exhaust and 3 oscillating fan.
Plants are vegged for about 15 days and start flowering at about 10- 12 inches.
They Flower up to about 18 - 24 inches.
I would like to switch to a drip system and 1 gallon pots.
Run to waste.
With an EC of 1.0 from beginning to end.
PH 5.8
Probably 1 week of Veg and flowered at 7 or 8 inches.
with a finishing height of about 15 inches is my guess.
Would 24 ounces of water drip to waste be too much for 24 hour period
at a feeding schedule set to 3xdaily at 8 ounces each feed ?
what is the medium?
low temps on purpose?
seems doable w/ 24oz/day, or less. maybe @ peak maturation... nice to have cheapo valve(s) inline to adjust rate(s)....
but, why waste so much nutrient solution?
it still holds ec... & can be reused.
enjoy your garden!
low temps on purpose?
seems doable w/ 24oz/day, or less. maybe @ peak maturation... nice to have cheapo valve(s) inline to adjust rate(s)....
but, why waste so much nutrient solution?
it still holds ec... & can be reused.
enjoy your garden!
thats what i was thinking , coco , soil , pebbles, rockwool ? not even worth thinking about to many variables , to to many
thanks for that info mistriss .
i find it best to have at least 20% of the nutrient water coming back out my pots , seems to be a good way to tell how much water you need
buddin_904
Member
Centrum, theres way to many variables to a give an answer like that into ounces. however, on the very bright side, you should be able to discover that answer in a matter of a couple days. that should be all you need to time your timers to correct intervals.
i suppose you need to know this info to maybe? calculate a rez size? i dont no thats all i can think of.
i suppose you need to know this info to maybe? calculate a rez size? i dont no thats all i can think of.
I know i have to tune it in personally.
I'm trying to gather a good amount of water without over doing it.
24 ounces seems like an overkill to me personally for a 1 gallon pot every day.
I was think 12 ounces fed 3x daily at 4 ounces each feed.
My intentions are to gather input, maybe someone says oh no man i did that and my coco was soaked and plants really suffered.
Or yeah that worked for me , i find that 15 ounces a day is the perfect number.
I know its not something we can calculate, but i know some growers feed there plants a certain amount of water per day on a weekly schedule and have it tuned.
I'm just trying to follow by example.
Thanks
pro veg growers do know what they need , but what they need always changes . due to enviromental factors , after a few years in the same location one could give detailed info on to how much water they all ways need ...
i know what you are asking .but it just dont work that way , having at least 20% nutrient water coming out your pots is the best way for stable and vigouros growth in any medium or room set up . if running to waste .
i have used drippers for the last 15 years , and think they are amazing way to feed plants .
if you follow this , it makes no difference what the temps are doing or other variables , you will simply feed when needed and have the desired waste coming out ,
in coco i used to feed 3 to 6 times a day , and have at least the last 2 feeds with the 20% run off . this is in a high wattage and on the higher side of temps .
if you have issues with getting your temps up with out adding extra heaters or using up electric then insulating the room is the best bet
it's an industry standard in holland . it makes sure that when growing in pots , you get enough fresh oxygen to your roots , it helps the grower to exchange nutrients properly to the root zone , rather than just keep the soil wet , people tent to water and think as long as the soil is wet it's ok , you get faster growth and more water is taken up by the plants when the run off rule is used .
in compost soil this is vital , if the grower just waters to keep his plants wet or alive , and does not regard run of as a serious issue , i would say they would probably double their yield if they used it .
what text/industry recommends 20% run-off?
greenhouse crop production industry standard?
or nursery,
or hobbyist?
20% is a large amount to be wasting, in any industry... especially when comes to water & fertilizers... & edible crop production.
how much are you dehumidifying daily?
what are you doing w/ the 20% waste input?
... nutes are generally still available in the solution, as water diminishes. much more slowly than the water... so, can basically feed-water(/feed light)-feed-water(feed light) & maintain ph & decent ec... & save 10-20% of wasted resources.
just option....
should provide adequate drainage & water-holding capacity - for any watering regime selected. the plant can easily go 1-2 days w/out water w/ 70% coco. plenty will be in the fibers of the coir...Centrum said:
if the temps are stable there, & cant increase them
fwiw, increased temps increase respiration...
enjoy your garden!
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ok mate , if you read the back of soils like say canna and other brands they recommend the 20% , i grow for yield , i throw all my nutes away once they have left the pot , what i do now days . is feed with water till i get 50% run off , then feed with the nutes till it trickles out . i am growing in soil and this stops the ec building up ,
i dont do the 20% thing cause the comps tell me its best , i do it cause it works . in every medium ,
i can say for sure that a wick system will not pull a big yield and is for hobby grows , reusing your nutrients works , but in the end run to waste is better . every time you reuse the nutes , some thing has been taken out from the nutes in the last feeding , when or how do we know what is missing from the nutes , you also have ph fluctuation due to evaporation when reusing . and up and down water temps . salt build ups and the nute difs . weed dont taste as good either .
Also if you are using drippers , then you need to have your water clean , recirculting brings debris into your tank and clogs up the drippers , things like bacteria and fungi have to be given by hand as they breed in the dripper lines and clogs up . There are many reasons to not reuse the water .
even when i hand water i have lots of nutes water coming out the bottom it is so vital mate , try it your self on a few test plants , water 1 just to keep it wet , then water the other loads you will see a difference for sure
its all ways works for me , as you can see my room is rammed , i have 9 600wt lights over a 8ft x 8ft grow stage , i pull 7 kilos from this in soil with chem nutes and drippers
i do have high humidity if was not taking it out , it would run up to 70% , but i can get it down to 40 with a 80 t a day dehumidifier . but this is because of the amount of plants in a small space and lots of light and heat . i am only feeding once every other day in peek flower , because i am in compost , i let the pots all most dry out before the next watering .
i dont do the 20% thing cause the comps tell me its best , i do it cause it works . in every medium ,
i can say for sure that a wick system will not pull a big yield and is for hobby grows , reusing your nutrients works , but in the end run to waste is better . every time you reuse the nutes , some thing has been taken out from the nutes in the last feeding , when or how do we know what is missing from the nutes , you also have ph fluctuation due to evaporation when reusing . and up and down water temps . salt build ups and the nute difs . weed dont taste as good either .
Also if you are using drippers , then you need to have your water clean , recirculting brings debris into your tank and clogs up the drippers , things like bacteria and fungi have to be given by hand as they breed in the dripper lines and clogs up . There are many reasons to not reuse the water .
even when i hand water i have lots of nutes water coming out the bottom it is so vital mate , try it your self on a few test plants , water 1 just to keep it wet , then water the other loads you will see a difference for sure
its all ways works for me , as you can see my room is rammed , i have 9 600wt lights over a 8ft x 8ft grow stage , i pull 7 kilos from this in soil with chem nutes and drippers
i do have high humidity if was not taking it out , it would run up to 70% , but i can get it down to 40 with a 80 t a day dehumidifier . but this is because of the amount of plants in a small space and lots of light and heat . i am only feeding once every other day in peek flower , because i am in compost , i let the pots all most dry out before the next watering .
also mate have you though about getting some floor heating , the coils that you can put under mats and stuff like that , if you cant get your temps up at least it will keep your roots warm and speed up the growing proccess
