[sadpanda]

[sadpanda]

EXPERIMENT NIGHT #3: DECARBOXYLATION

so when trying to figure out how long to decarb for, it seems 120C/248F for 1hr is ideal for both THC and CBD? can only go from what ive read, lol. Anyway my experiment tonight seems to back that up.

I took some bud from some random recreational strain (so expecting high THC low/no CBD) and made 9 x 70mg portions of it, and wrapped each one individually in a square of alfoil about the size of a cig lighter:

Then put all of them in my oven, one of these air forced convection style ones - yes the alfoil pieces were slowly blowing around the the whole time, only at the base though so no direct contact issue. I had it set to 125C (error range lets say 120-130), which was its lowest marked setting.

Then after 5 minutes i took the first out, then after 10 mins took the next out, then after 20 took the next out, etc etc every 10 mins until the last one came out after 80 minutes.

[miltiano32]

I usually decarb for 30min at about 240degrees. Looking at your image it would seem that the 30min interval was higher? or am i interpreting it wrong?

[sadpanda]

Look at the THCA levels though when you compare 30 mins to 60 mins, still lotsss of THCA left to convert to THC at 30 mins, but seems to hit the sweet spot at 60 mins.

So it seems pretty clear with THCA at least. But i agree the THC spots themselves are trickier to interpret!

I cut them out (being careful to try to avoid the crossover from THC to THCV spots), and brought them into JustTLC for a closer look (btw keep in mind each sample is 3 x 1uL microliter so its very tricky to get them all exact, so some individuals may stick out, but you can still clearly see the trend over multiples)

Note that the ID Numbers given by JustTLC are random but the lane positions are still the same -- the 0 minute (cold) run on the left as #10, then the 5-minute run next to that as #8, etc etc all the way to #4 which is the 80-minute run.

[SkyHighLer]

Originally Posted by sadpanda

only 25mg? i see you didn't shop around! I'd cancel that order if it's not too late. That's about all you get in those commercial test kits and they're about the same price! That amount is only good for about two baths or ~3-10 plates. Should be able to get at least 250mg for $100 - I got 5000mgs for just a few hundred and that was imported from a Japanese lab and freighted with dry ice. Take some time and shop around with google also email some local labs and ask them how much to get some for you (worked for me). Dont forget Fast Blue B is the other option to BB, its usually a bit cheaper too and only requires refrigeration not freezer, but its more of a carcinogen concern and results not as vibrant (please read this thread in full if you havent yet)

I'm impressed with the definition you're getting with the Fast Blue BB, thanks again for sharing your discoveries!

So, I looked for Fast Blue BB here in the US, is this about where you'd need go if you don't have credentials?

https://www.labdepotinc.com/p-17299-f...ue-bb-salt.php

[sadpanda]

ps. there is every chance i accidentally mixed the 5 and 10 minute runs up - not just because the TLC result suggests thats the case, but because i had just the two of them laid out on my bed when a car with siren drove past so i kneeled on the bed to look out the window, which caused the two alfoil portions to come together lol. So I would say that, looking at the TLC result, it's probably safe to assume that that is indeed the case - it's the only real anomaly afterall. So, just switch the 5 and 10 minute lanes around.

Originally Posted by SkyHighLer

I'm impressed with the definition you're getting with the Fast Blue BB, thanks again for sharing your discoveries!

yes it seems true that BB gives a more "vibrant" result than B, I'm not sure if that makes it any more useful though, but hey its a thing of visual beauty to me and its so simple yet so powerful - the results reveal all! Grow out 10 plants and wonder why that 1 is a keeper? you'll soon know!!! lol, omg HOW GOOD IS SCIENCE KIDS!?!?

btw correct solvent also required to get good definition! im using 4:1 hexane:diethyl ether with great success, which is the one (out of 6 tested) that was suggested as giving best cannabinoid separation.

But tonight in Experiment Night #4 or 5 or whatever im up to haha I'm going to try lots of different eluents, including chloroform which is also supposed to give excellent definition but I also plan to try a few others, including the probably-not-so-universal solvent: distilled water. Not expecting great results from that, but expecting great science

Originally Posted by SkyHighLer

So, I looked for Fast Blue BB here in the US, is this about where you'd need go if you don't have credentials?

I don't know about US but I don't think you need any credentials (or whatever) at all to get Fast Blue B or BB, it's essentially just a dye that you can use to test phenolic compounds such as those in strawberries (just google: "Fast Blue" phenolics -cannabinoids) so it's not cannabis-specific, and it's not on any "lists"

Anyway, TONIGHTS ROUND OF EXPERIMENTS STARTS NOW!!

[SkyHighLer]

Originally Posted by G.O. Joe

They're so famous for not selling things. It would be a big surprise if they would send you anything. A VWR is probably about the biggest size of supplier that might sell chemicals to individuals and/or deliver to residences.

Google gave me a few sources for the BB last week - additional search terms might bring up more. It will not arrive cold and may have been made in India and never refrigerated. Google just might give you a source for the B salt on the first hit.

Oh and what I said about ether is after learning everything you need to know about dealing with peroxide formation and the ease of ignition. Once you've got that down it's no big deal. Except for the penetrating smell freaking out neighbors.

Originally Posted by sadpanda

I don't know about US but I don't think you need any credentials (or whatever) at all to get Fast Blue B or BB, it's essentially just a dye that you can use to test phenolic compounds such as those in strawberries (just google: "Fast Blue" phenolics -cannabinoids) so it's not cannabis-specific, and it's not on any "lists"

Anyway, TONIGHTS ROUND OF EXPERIMENTS STARTS NOW!!

Couldn't even find Fast Blue B, let alone Fast Blue BB at eBay...

Sigmund-Aldrich, India, China, and the previous linked source were about all I was coming up with for Fast Blue BB with a Google Search, just as G.O. Joe suggested in the quote above. The linked source seems like a zero questions asked supplier, but it would be nice to know there are other US sources for price comparison, and with maybe a smaller quantity option, like the five grams you purchased.

[sadpanda]

you wont find it at ebay although i did see it once a month ago, and Sigma only sell to registered unis/govt/LEO etc so they're a no-go (pretty sure u cant even buy distilled water from them without being reg'd), but Fast Blue itself isn't a restricted product so all you have to do is ask one of your local labs to import it for you, that worked for me. There are plenty of labs that sell both B and BB, mainly in China though i got mine from Japan. And remember just because you can't find an "Add To Cart" option doesn't mean its not available via an email either keep shopping around, take the time and dont give up, you'll find some and at good price - "the chase" is worth it! I dont know how much B is used (seems similar) but 20mgs of BB seems about right for 1 bath, which is enough for at least three full plates, so should get approx 50 baths out of 1000mgs. Do try and get BB if you can if only because its considered safer than B in regards to carcinogen, and you have to deal with it as a powder every time at least initially before you solute the bath.

[sadpanda]

Final night of experiments: ELUENTS!

Im sad to say this is my final night of experiments, as I've figured it out enough to be able to hand it all over to my friend this weekend so she can start using it straight away without wasting any time, as she starts her quest to find CBD-rich strains to help with her battle against cancer. Just another quick THANKYOU to everyone who has helped me along the way, both through privmsg and through this thread! If you're reading this now and find it interesting but haven't yet read this thread from page 1, please stop now and do so! it took me six weeks to figure all this shit out haha, but itll take you 10 minutes to read this thread

THE ELUENT!
By eluent i am refering to the mobile phase - the solution used for the capillary action. For the extract im still just using pure hexane, which from what ive read seems to be the most common used for extraction.

Anyway if you're one of the three people following my progress in this thread lol you would've noticed i'm using 4:1 hexane:diethyl ether as my eluent because 1) i'd seen hexane used in a lot of the papers, 2) both hexane and diethyl ether didnt appear to be on any 'lists', but mainly because 3) one of the papers compared 6 different eluents (see earlier post for details - chloroform wasn't one of them btw), and found that the hexane diethyl mix achieved the best separation of cannabinoids.

So it seems there are various solvents that can be used, but only a few that achieve that desired separation really well.

I was curious to see how some other solvents would perform as the eluent!
So i cut an aluminium TLC plate up into 4 pieces... in future tho i think 3 is better, as theyre so thin with 4 cuts that its tricky to stand then up straight in the round jar, especially when the foil bends a bit as it easily does then. Because theyre too thin 1) some edge effect happened, and 2) not all wanted to follow the plate because it wasnt completely vertical.

So these are pretty rough! but still give a good enough approximation of how useless these solvents are - you can see the hexane:diethyl is the only one offering cannabinoid separation - with the other three its difficult to tell whether the sample has THC, CBD or both:


I was inspired by this where they used chloroform for the eluent and also got good results.

So in the name of science i bought a small bottle of chloroform!

Two advantages chloroform has over hexane:diethyl ether ...
1) its a single solution, no need to spend any time measuring out a mix.
2) it doesnt have that "get the fuck out of here before i assault your nose" kick in the face that diethyl ether has ... WOW that stuff has some hardcore fumes and makes it hard to work with. Hexane and chloroform on the other hand are both much milder in that respect.

But how does it perform? I did a side-by-side comparison with hexane:diethyl ether, using 5 different bud samples that i had decarb'd @ 125C for 60mins:

Each row on each plate is the same strain/sample (you can see for example it appears that lane 5 on both has the most CBG)

But it appears that the chloroform is giving the greatest cannabinoid separation!? ... and actually seems to be getting greater use out of the expensive 10cm x 5cm real estate (yes $2 a plate is expensive)

Joe i'd love to hear your thoughts about this

[PDX Dopesmoker]

Originally Posted by sadpanda

EXPERIMENT NIGHT #3: DECARBOXYLATION

so when trying to figure out how long to decarb for, it seems 120C/248F for 1hr is ideal for both THC and CBD? can only go from what ive read, lol. Anyway my experiment tonight seems to back that up.

I took some bud from some random recreational strain (so expecting high THC low/no CBD) and made 9 x 70mg portions of it, and wrapped each one individually in a square of alfoil about the size of a cig lighter:
View Image
Then put all of them in my oven, one of these air forced convection style ones - yes the alfoil pieces were slowly blowing around the the whole time, only at the base though so no direct contact issue. I had it set to 125C (error range lets say 120-130), which was its lowest marked setting.
View Image
Then after 5 minutes i took the first out, then after 10 mins took the next out, then after 20 took the next out, etc etc every 10 mins until the last one came out after 80 minutes.

View Image

Oh wow thats fantastic, not only is it one of the coolest things I've seen on the internet in a long time, but it seems like it correlates pretty roughly to the skunkpharm decarbing chart too.


Do a CBD one! The general public doesn't currently have a good metric for how to decarb CBD (or if they do I haven't been paying attention)