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Lighting Optimization and Calculating Efficiency

G

guest 77721

Hey guys,​

One of the things you'll discover is that many of the growing ideas come from large scale operations such as greenhouses.

As Micro Growers, these ideas may or may not be applicable due to economies of scale or efficiencies of equipment.​

The standard lighting intensity is recommended as 50 watts/sqft for flowering. The question is FOR WHO?​

This standard comes down from the large lights used in greenhouses. As you can see from the table below that the Lumens per Watt is not a constant value for all the lights and falls off terribly for small HPS, CFL and Fluorescent lighting.

What this boils down to is that my Watts/sqft are different than yours if we have different types of lights.
​

lumens.jpg


bulbefficiency.jpg


I'm not trying to prove which light is better but it is obvious that the 600 HPS puts out the most light for the least amount of electrical load so it is the most efficient light available in terms of electrical consumption.

It turns out that optimum lighting is between 8,000 Lumens to 10,000 Lumens per sqft. The table above will give you the equivalent watts/sqft of the available lights.
 
G

guest 77721

Grow Efficiency Calculations

Somebody somewhere started reporting thier yields in grams/watt. If we were all running the same lights that would be a good indicator. The problem is that watts is a measurement of electrical consumption and heat not lighting intensity.

For everyone to be on the same page, we should report our yields in grams/1000 Lumens. If you want to use grams/watt, multiply by the L/W factor for your light and report your yield in g/watt (600 HPS equivalent)

If the 600 HPS sets the standard at 1 gram/watt, then the standard is 6.8 g/1000 Lumens between 8,000 and 10,000 Lumens/sqft for all forms of lighting.

The best indicator of yield and efficiency is grams/sqft/flowering day. That takes the lighting right out of it.

I like grams/sqft/flowering day because it tells me how well each plant does as an individual so I can judge my best plants and strains.

Also g/sqft is a great indicator of how well your growspace is performing.

yieldintensity.jpg





I've figured out the Yield vs Intensity line for a 600 HPS based on 1 g/watt between 8,000 and 10,000 Lumens per sqft.

Look's like I'm doing pretty good with my CFL's and 150 HPS - EH!!!
 
b00m

b00m

~No Guts~ ~No Glory~
Mentor
Veteran
Great Info

Great Info

Awesome stuff red, when I can I will participate with some numbers from my own micro grows.
Happy Gardening All.
Peace.
 
colonelcrackers

colonelcrackers

Active member
Subscribed. Always interested in the science behind things. Keep up the info flow Red! BTW, great harvest for only using 4x42w on your last run!
 
G

guest 77721

Here's my first grow using a 150 HPS. These plants are Dutch Treat x Shiskaberry and I pulled the DT pheno on the left and the Shiskaberry pheno on the right.




Lumens/sqft = 8000

Dutch Treat
g/1000 lumen = 5.4
g/w (150 HPS ) = 0.57
g/w (600 HPS) = 0.88
g/sqft/flowering day = 0.78

Shiskaberry
g/1000 lumen = 8.0
g/w (150 HPS ) = 0.85
g/w (600 HPS) = 1.2
g/sqft/flowering day = 0.88
 
G

guest 77721

Here's the results of my 5400 Lumen/Sqft CFL grow with 4 plants in 8" pots.



LUI #1
5400 Lumen/Sqft
7.0 g/1000 Lumen
0.45 g/w CFL
1.0 g/w 600 HPS eq.
0.6 g/sqft/flowering day for 9 weeks


Shiskaberry
5400 Lumen/Sqft
7.0 g/1000 Lumen
0.45 g/w CFL
1.0 g/w 600 HPS eq.
0.6 g/sqft/flowering day for 10 weeks


Thai-Lights
5400 Lumen/Sqft
9.3 g/1000 Lumen
0.6 g/w CFL
1.4 g/w 600 HPS eq.
0.6 g/sqft/flowering day for 11 weeks


LUI#2
5400 Lumen/Sqft
7.0 g/1000 Lumen
0.45 g/w CFL
1.0 g/w 600 HPS eq.
0.6 g/sqft/flowering day for 9 weeks



Thai-Lights Reveg 10" pot
5400 Lumen/Sqft
8.5 g/1000 Lumen
0.55 g/w CFL
1.3 g/w 600 HPS eq.
0.6 g/sqft/flowering day for 11 weeks


LUI#2 Reveg in 10" Pot
5400 Lumen/Sqft
8.1 g/1000 Lumen
0.52 g/w CFL
1.2 g/w 600 HPS eq.
0.6 g/sqft/flowering day for 9 weeks
 
G

guest 77721



Hey I nearly forgot. This is my R2D2 grow with two Dutch Treat x Shiskaberry grown with Shultz 10-12-10 plant food.

252 W CFL in 2.5 sqft
100 w/sqft
6480 Lumens/sqft

84 grams total

6.5 g/1000 Lumen
0.33 g/watt CFL
0.8 g 600 hps equivalent

0.48 g/sqft/flowering day
 
M

Matanuskan Flo

Member
very very nice info Red, as always. I still love your ventilation thread the most!! But, i bet this one will certainly catch up in time. I have always thought 600watters were the best. i would much rather have 2 600w than 3 400w, dare i say. also, the efficiency is most apparent in temp fluctuations betw the 600 & 1000. the extra energy needed is quite apparent within small rooms/tents etc for a 1000w. then, the extra fan power, watering, nutes etc etc alll adds up to more headache than yield if you use your 600w correctly.
 
G

guest 77721

Hey Mantaskan Flo - thanks for popping by. I think every grow that's put down on this te is just awesome. The trick is to get your system dialed in.

For anyone that would like to help out, I'd be interested in your grow results.

Just give me a post with the following information

Lighting Type:
Intensity: Lumens/sqft
Yeild: grams/(1000 Lumens)

I'll update the Yield vs Intensity graph with your data.

What I want to see is what the correlation between intensity and yeild really is.
 
ITryToGrow

ITryToGrow

Member
What up Red!

Love your tutorials!

A question for ya, if you don't mind. :)

Let me see if I got this straight.

If I have a growtent, a secret jardin dr300w, that measures 10'x'5'x6.5' I would need 2650watts or 3350watts to achieve 8.000lumens/sqft or 10.000lumens/sqft respectively.

Am I right?

If I'm right, is that what I should strive for?

What I'm after is that in said tent I have the option to use 1 to as many as 5 600watts HPS' , aircooled of course per your vent 101 thread recommendation ;) , and I guess I should use all 5?

Thanks for awesome tutorials man!
 
G

guest 77721

Hey ITryToGrow,

Using 4 or 5 x 600 W HPS will put you in the optimum range of 8,000 to 10,000 lumens. You will have to decide what your final design will be and if you can afford to set it up and operate it.

I usually recommend using the smallest amount of light as you need. More lights produce more heat that has to be removed.

ITryToGrow said:
What up Red!

Love your tutorials!

A question for ya, if you don't mind. :)

Let me see if I got this straight.

If I have a growtent, a secret jardin dr300w, that measures 10'x'5'x6.5' I would need 2650watts or 3350watts to achieve 8.000lumens/sqft or 10.000lumens/sqft respectively.

Am I right?

If I'm right, is that what I should strive for?

What I'm after is that in said tent I have the option to use 1 to as many as 5 600watts HPS' , aircooled of course per your vent 101 thread recommendation ;) , and I guess I should use all 5?

Thanks for awesome tutorials man!
Click to expand...
 
TexMex McDirt

TexMex McDirt

Active member
Hey Red - Curious as to your take on this question. Do you think the yield is also dependent on the grow method too? I mean if you just let it go or if you were to LST or SCRoG. I think in a micro grow LST or SCRoG will increase yield always due to the fact that you can keep more buds closer to the light, especially using CFL. Just wonderin what you think, I'm still learning.
 
ITryToGrow

ITryToGrow

Member
redgreenry said:
Hey ITryToGrow,

Using 4 or 5 x 600 W HPS will put you in the optimum range of 8,000 to 10,000 lumens. You will have to decide what your final design will be and if you can afford to set it up and operate it.

I usually recommend using the smallest amount of light as you need. More lights produce more heat that has to be removed.
Click to expand...


Top advice as always!


If you have time I would love it if you could chime in on my thread over at Growroom Design & Equipment!

Give me your 2's worth! :)

Live well and prosper!
 
G

guest 77721

Hey TexMex, definately the method makes a big difference. To get dialed in you need a working growbox, good nutes, genetics and a green thumb. The LST, SCROG and SOG methods are ways to make full use out of your growspace. I feel that the SCROG method works best in small cabinets to spread out an even canopy of buds under the light. I say that but my last few grows have been LST and SOG's.
 
TexMex McDirt

TexMex McDirt

Active member
Thanks for the feedback Red, confirms my thoughts. You have been quite a source of knowledge and ideas for me and I'm sure countless others. I am using LST. This is my 1st grow so I am still learning. I am using LST since I am growing from seed and thought it might be be tough to SCRoG after I wait to sex them. So far the LST seems to be working. Thanks again for your feedback.

Cheers!
 
gardenlover

gardenlover

Member
Nice work!!! I will be installing about 8,500 lumens per square foot of the average light output of the bulb, and around 9,100 lumen per square foot using Initial light output numbers. Thanks for confirming the amount of light I will be needing in my garden! I was unsure but using your method it looks like I am right on target! thanks again!
 
M

mini-mota

Member
Fantastic comparisons, examples, and data, Red! You really helped clarify some questions that I had regarding lumens, types of lighting, and their relationship to yield.

Thanks,

- mini
 
G

gus738

Member
i'm sorry for waking up this old thread but i couldn't contact the op of this thread.

was wondering since distance, lumes heat etc play into factor which light is ideal based on given size plant

example a 600 watt once it reaches certain inches from plant it may be more effective or same as a 1k due to the fact that the 1k more heat etc... my goal is bushy big plants via aeroponic system aerojet 4 tray its like a ez clone sprayers not a dwc

what would be your suggestion for a 7x5x8 (thinking of flower room) i was shooting for 4 1k's but since 1k's put out more heat which would be optimal lumes due to the fact that as hotter it get the further away you raise the light thus loosing the lumes, so it might be the same with a 600 watt vs a 1k based on certain distance right?

and for the 4x5x8 am shooting for 2 1k's minimal?
 
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