Oh damn Bud, I'm feeling guilty...you posted up a problem and I wasn't around to help.

Ph control is fundamental, as you've discovered. Bad pH over extended periods of time will lock out nutes, causing you to overfert (hence the claw leaves) to try and solve the problem, and just end up adding insult to injury. When you see claw...FLUSH! I also suspect that the blood and bone meal you mixed in with your soil is too much in proportion. Being a slow release type of additive, it stays in your soil and over time supplies micro-nutes to your plants. I think that you have put too much to allow you to do any more than very very diluted ferting (1/4 - 1/6 strength), but not so much that it makes your plants suffer when you don't fert.

How many ladies we got?

Question: Sometimes the water comes outta tha faucet between 6.5 and 6.7 or 6.8 which is fine, but there are times when I have to adjust the pH of the water myself.
Will it hurt the girls if I keep having to add pH down to the water in order to get it to an optimum pH level?

Answer: Won't hurt your plants at all used correctly. You can use it every watering if you need to!

My Question: What are you using to check your pH? A pH pen? If not, its your next small investment (the pens don't cost a fortune). Liquid pH testers are very unreliable, and can do well in a pinch, but not as your only means of controlling pH.

Another question: Have we discussed RO water already? If not, let me know and we'll get into it

Also, one of the males was in some of the soil that I bought from Wal Mart. This soil is very... dense, I guess you could say. Not airy at all, even with the perlite I added to it. When I looked at the root ball of this plant I noticed that the soil was bone dry all the way thru. However, the pot itself felt heavy as if I had just watered the plant. One of my amazons is in this same soil and her pot feels very heavy.

You pinpointed the problem perfectly. Your soil has compacted, it has little air circulation because it isn't sufficiently aerated and probably of poor quality. When you water that particular plant, water her first from above, normally, till the water runs out the bottom, then take her out of the grow, fill a basin with pH corrected water to about 1/3 the height of the pot, and let her sit in there for about 20 minutes before replacing her in the grow. Get a feel for the well watered pot. If you think its heavy now, when the soil is nice and wet, you'll tell the difference! Remember which plant is in the "heavier" soil, and gauge her pot weight differently from the others. Shouldn't take you more than one or two waterings to get the right "feel" for her too. Plants in different periods of growth have different necessities of water. Towards the end of flower its best to reduce waterings, but around the 3 - 5 week of flower they'll drink like mofo's and its good to give them what they need . Don't take for granted that you'll always be needing to water your plants at set intervals, it don't work that way :wink:

Your moisture meter needs to be pushed to about 3 inches from the bottom of the pot, almost all the way down. Careful Bud, you got roots growing around in there, and you need to be very delicate. Don't ever let your plants get to the point of drooping before adding water, sometimes its fatal!

One of my amazons is in this same soil and her pot feels very heavy.
I recently watered her so I know the heaviness I feel is water not just the soil.

If you're unsure as to whether or not your soil is still moist, wait a day or two, depending on how moist you think it still is, and then water. Cannabis roots enjoy a day of completely dry soil (which translates into more oxygen for the roots) and will not suffer without water for a day. Its a plant which generally prefers dry to moist as far as soil goes. Frequent enough waterings to meet her needs, and no more.

Have I redeemed myself? Forgiven?
A wonderful weekend to you Bud!



And THAT is lovely!

[budhownd]

[quote=Indigo]Oh damn Bud, I'm feeling guilty...you posted up a problem and I wasn't around to help.[quote]
Naw, no need for feelin guilty. I'm just glad to see ya back.


[quote]Ph control is fundamental, as you've discovered.[quote]
Boy, have I.


[quote]I think that you have put too much to allow you to do any more than very very diluted ferting (1/4 - 1/6 strength), but not so much that it makes your plants suffer when you don't fert.[quote]

Yea, I think so too. I didn't ralize how slow the release of it into the soil would be. I've been feeding at 1/8 an no more than 1/4 strength with the Fox Farms Big Bloom. All organic.


[quote]How many ladies we got? [quote]

Three!!

BUT one of them hermied on me. I think. It has the same lil balls on it that the boys did, but therez pistils with tha lil hairs all over too.
So, against all the advice I've read in other threads, I kept her and started pulling balls. So, far nothing has popped up on the other two girls and even if it does, I think I can live with it.

[quote]My Question: What are you using to check your pH?[quote]

It's a Rapitest pH tester. It's a box hooked up to a probe an ya stick tha probe down in tha dirt and the lil hand swings all crazy-like.

[quote]Another question: Have we discussed RO water already? If not, let me know and we'll get into it [quote]

I don't think we have. I've seen the term in a few threads here and there.

[quote]Have I redeemed myself? Forgiven? [quote]

Sure! Thanks for all tha great info. I'll definitely water that "heavy soil" plant from the top and bottom.

[quote]A wonderful weekend to you Bud![quote]

You too, Indi! Take care.

Buddy

Yo Bud, hope you're having a nice Sunday! :smile:

Hre we go:

Yea, I think so too. I didn't ralize how slow the release of it into the soil would be. I've been feeding at 1/8 an no more than 1/4 strength with the Fox Farms Big Bloom. All organic.

Slow release ferts are verrrrry slow release, meaning they'll remain in your soil and release nutes for months. You have to be really careful about proportions when you go mixing them into your soil. I personally do NOT use them. You've also found out the hard way that overfert occurs with organics the same as it does with chemical nutes. Just because its labelled "organic" doesn't mean more is better.

Three ladies is great, but hermies are not. If your hermie put out just a few balls, its OK to snip them, but if it continues to produce them IMO you should kill that plant, or you'll be heavily risking ending up with seeded weed. "I think I can live with it" are famous last words....I had my first hermie (!) in 5 years of growing last time round, and the bitch put out only two flowers, which however managed to pollinate the entire plant....and only the grace of God shining down kept the other plants in with her from getting pollinated.

It's a Rapitest pH tester. It's a box hooked up to a probe an ya stick tha probe down in tha dirt and the lil hand swings all crazy-like.

Not reliable Bud. Ditch it and buy yourself a pH pen. Not only are those not reliable, they're made to measure the soil pH and will give incorrect readings IMO for water, which is probably why your pH from the faucet seems to fluctuate so wildly.

RO water is purified water obtained through the process of reverse osmosis. They sell RO water in acquarium stores, and over in my part of the world, distilled water (from the grocery store) is obtained through the same process (states on the label "obtained through the process of reverse osmosis") and that's what I use. RO water is water from which the metals, salts, and minerals have been removed. It is pH stable at 6.0, does not fluctuate, and is perfect to help solve pH issues in soil. I personally use a mixture of 50% RO water, and 50% tap water at every watering, which brings my tap water pH down to about 6.3 - 6.5. If you use pure RO water to water your plants, you'll need to be giving them regular feedings of micronutes and trace elements, which are present in tap water, but not in RO water, and your plants NEED these minerals, etc. for healthy growth.

That's it for now! Happy growin' and catch ya soon :smile:

[budhownd]

Hay Indigo. Hope you had a great Monday.




Slow release ferts are verrrrry slow release, meaning they'll remain in your soil and release nutes for months. You have to be really careful about proportions when you go mixing them into your soil. I personally do NOT use them.

No? Wow. Folks are always swearing by blood and bone meal. That's what you mean by slow release nutes, right?

I had my first hermie (!) in 5 years of growing last time round, and the bitch put out only two flowers, which however managed to pollinate the entire plant....and only the grace of God shining down kept the other plants in with her from getting pollinated.

Damn, that's a great record with no hermies. With all I've heard about the unstable nature of bagseed genes, I'm not surprised it happened to my girl. Damn, she's my biggest.

Not reliable Bud. Ditch it and buy yourself a pH pen.

Mkay. I'll start my hunt for one today.


in my part of the world, distilled water (from the grocery store) is obtained through the same process (states on the label "obtained through the process of reverse osmosis") and that's what I use.

Yea, I can get distilled water from the grocery store, too. Well, I'm off to find the pen and get some new water. As always, thanks for all the help, Indigo.
Take care and have a GREAT evening.

Buddy

Hey Bud, Hope you're well today! :smile:

Blood and bone meal are organic slow release fets, any kind of additives that you mix in with your soil will be slow release. They are also both excellent, in the right proportions, and with plants past the seedling stage (after first 10 days :wink. I use neither because I buy a premixed soil mix, and if you're curious as to the composition, here it is:

Black and red peat 51%
Humus (worm castings) 12%
Peruvian Bat guano 4%
Perlite 25%
Volcanic sand 5%
Trichoderm (beneficial bacteria) 3%

The above mix is an "all grow", indicated for both veg and flower (but not for seedlings), and is light enough on the nutrients that I can add diluted ferts throughout the entire cycle without risking overfert. Blood and bone meal are excellent as I said, but only in the right proportions, and you wouldn't want to add them to a soil which is already complete, such as the one I use. :wink:

No hermies for me until now is for a number of reasons:
1. I use normal seeds, no female or feminized
2. No light leaks in my grow
3. Evidently I don't stress my plants :smile:

Your hermies may be due to the bagseed, but also due to the stress your plants went through this time round.

For the RO water, when you go to the spermarket, read the label. If its obtained through reverse osmosis, it'll say so :wink: Remember what I said about using straight RO water versus mixing with tap. If you use the straight RO water all the time, you need to be giving regular light feedings of trace elements too. If you mix it with tap water, this won't be necessary. RO water was the solution to all my pH problems when I started mixing with my tap water, a real revelation! :smile:

When you get the pH pen, start taking some real readings of your runoff water, your tap water, and the distilled water....you'll be flabbergasted at the difference in readings between the probe and the pen!

Hey Bud....how's it goin' girl? I guess OK as you haven't popped back in :smile:

Let me know if everything's goin' all right, I've been checking the thread regularly just in case....

[budhownd]

Hay Indi!

How ya doin?

Things are going ok so far. At day 24 of flower, the lil amazons are still growing up instead of ... um out. Out? I dunno.
One of them has reached at least 5 feet and fareal I think it's more than that. The very top of her main stem comes up to my eyes and I'm 5'7-5'8-ish. Hmmmm. I kinda figgered they were all gonna be indicas.
No smell to this one unless I rub her main stalk. Her leaves are a nice rich green color and she seems to enjoy the feeding schedule that I'm sticking to. No problems out of her except that she's makin me worry that I won't have the head room she needs.
The other is short and smelly. I can see trichomes on the leaves surrounding the bud. She's still a lil light in color, but the leaves around the bud are a darker green. She seems happy tho, so I'm not gonna screw with her. She gobbles up the nutes I give her and is always ready for more.
All in all they're doing well.

Um, being bagseed, I don't really have anything to draw from as far as knowing how long to let them go. I've read that I should wait until 75% of the trichs have turned amber. I've read to wait until they are cloudy. I've read to let em go until I don't see anymore growth from the buds. As you can see, I've read alot and all those things I read were for "known" strains, not bagseed. Got any suggestions? I figger I'm gonna have to invest in a loupe or a microscope of some sort. I haven't been able to pick up the pH pen just yet. I got a few bills to pay first. So, I'm trying to keep the pH level adjusted the best that I can. : /

*sigh* I guess that's it. At least that's all my tired brains can think of at the moment. I know I have more questions floating around the flotsam and jetsam that composes my gray thinking matter, I just caint think of em right now. LoL. Lucky you. Yer saved from having to read another of my novels disguised as a thread post.

Hope yer having a great week, Indi. You take care over there cross tha water.

peace

Bud

Hey Bud, glad to hear things are going well! :smile:

You can expect your plants to stop stretching within a couple of weeks or so. They'll slow vertical growth dramatically and start working on plumping the buds. Your bagseed was not a pure indica, but what looked to be an indica dom hubrid. Indica dom plants can be quite small, and some can get quite large, though nothing comparable to a sativa.

If you get really worried about headroom, let me know as there are a couple of techniques to help gain inches :wink:

As far as the Hamletic "to chop, or not to chop...", first rule of thumb...keep this one in mind always: If you think they're ready...wait a week!

When the plant is done, there is what is called a "window" during which the plant has reached optimum maturity to be chopped. This window is anywhere from 3 days to 7 - 10 days, depending on the strain. A trained eye and knowledge of the strain performance can pick out the best time for chop.

That is for future reference, as you don't yet have knowledge of strains, how they perform, and you're growing from bagseed. In your case, keeping an eye on the trichs is the best way. Radio Shack sells a handy dandy little scope with a built in light, costs like USD$25.00, and it works just fine. You need something which magnifies up to 30X, which is more or less the optimum for viewing the trichs. You can chop on the basis of the desired effects. If you prefer a more head buzz, active and more towards a sativa effect, you chop when your trichs are almost all cloudy, a few still clear, but with no amber trichs showing yet. If you want a more balanced effect, chop when you have a few amber trichs, if you like a more couchlock body stone, chop when you have a good 10% or so amber trichs. Don't let them go too long, otherwise you're weed will just give you a headache and put you to sleep.

Before I bought a microscope, I used to judge from the pistils, which is not very accurate, but will do in a pinch. The rule above about wait a week will hold particularly true if you're going by pistils to judge when they're done.
I would chop when I had 70-80% pistils with a change of color and atrophied, but I'd look at the buds too, to be sure. If they looked like they'd still plump up, I'd let them go more, even if the pistils indicated they might be ready.

LOL...seems like the both of us write novels here....we could condense this into a how to grow basics book, publish it, and make lots of money LMAO!

Have a nice one Bud!

[budhownd]

Hey Indi.

Just droppin by to post a few pics of the galz after being in 12/12 for 30 days. Well, it was 30 days on Sunday but, this is the soonest I could figure out how to get the pics up.

both of the galz:



this second one shows (a lil) how far away the light is from the top of the taller plant. I've since put the shorter one on a stand to make it even with the taller one.




This is the main cola of the taller plant.



The main cola of the shorter plant.



Budsites on the taller plant.






A budsite on the shorter plant. I think. It may be the top of the plant. Hmm... Naw, I'm pretty sure it's a budsite.



I've noticed some of the pistils on the taller plant have turned brown and withered a little. One lil cluster of pistils here or there on a branch, not all over the plant. I caint figger out why it's happening. Except for maybe the buds are too far from the light, since they are on the lower part of the plant. Hmmmm..... Other than that they are doing ok. The smaller one is starting to fatten up a lil bit and I think the taller one has stopped her upward growth spurt.

I'm estimating they'll need another three or four weeks at the least. I'm gonna get the microscope as soon as I can and I still need to get my hands on that pH pen. *sigh*

Ah well. It's worth the expense just knowing I didn't have to pay someone else for my green.

See, Indigo, I can temper my propensity for writing novels. LoL.

Take care and have a great week.

Buddy

[Rodriguez]

Those are some nice lookin'girls Bud
Your in good hands with Indigo