[jump117]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

... chart that Jump 117 originally posted, that shows various curves.

For historical justice, I must say that I've just improved the graphics and added a Fahrenheit temperature in the charts,
G.O.Joe found in Journal of Chromatography, 520 (1990) 339-347.
Elsevier Science Publishers B.V., Amsterdam






in my experience (click) I watched an active release of gas bubbles from the melt of amber
at a temperature 122С from the fifth minute, on the tenth minute it stopped,
while as scheduled, it is necessary 27 minutes, probably the temp in my oven was higher.

[Batboy]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

I approximate the 252F curve with my oil and don't bother trying to decarboxylate the dry plant material.

Do you mind explaining this a bit more? I think I missed something.

God bless you, GW!

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by Batboy

Do you mind explaining this a bit more? I think I missed something.

I don't cook the raw plant material to decarboxylate it.

I cook the extracted oil at 250F to decarboxylate it instead.

You can tell when the decarboxylation is coasting down and complete by watching the small C02 bubbles that are generated.

I normally stop at around 70/80% decarboxylation, because that is the point of diminishing returns for THC conversion, without turning more THC to CBN than THCA to THC.

[Batboy]

Thanks GW. Not trying to be a pain, but this contradicts processes that you have posted about in other threads, where you have stated that you decarb in an oven and then something about a pasta strainer, yada yada. It sounds to me like you are doing the decarb AFTER you do the extraction, but I thought it was supposed to be the other way around. I guess that you change everything around depending on if you are making an oral tincture, edible, topical, etc.?

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by Batboy

Thanks GW. Not trying to be a pain, but this contradicts processes that you have posted about in other threads, where you have stated that you decarb in an oven and then something about a pasta strainer, yada yada. It sounds to me like you are doing the decarb AFTER you do the extraction, but I thought it was supposed to be the other way around. I guess that you change everything around depending on if you are making an oral tincture, edible, topical, etc.?

Good point bro, but not a contradiction that I am aware of. I don't decarboxylate in a 200F oven, I simply remove most of the remaining moisture to stabalize the water solubles.

If you take it out when it is just frangible, evaporation has kept it from reaching 200F and following that curve.

That does touch upon an interesting point that I did fail to expand upon, so thanks for bringing it up. The curve that your meds follow is the total heat/time that they have experienced with both simple curing and all heat cycles involved.

That is why I don't publish an exact curve. I generally follow the 252F curve by using 250F at the end, but judge time by visually watching the reaction.

Any of ya'll calculus students will recognize the sum totals of all areas under the different curves, but for most folks, it is just easier to keep track of how much CO2 is generated in the final processes.

When you are boiling off solvent in a 250F oil bath, you get a bunch of big bubbles, tailing off to small bubbles, tailing off to a quiescent pool.

Studies that I've read suggest that the peaks that you see on Jump's graphs are at about 70 to 80% decarboxylation, after which the efforts are counter productive for maximum head effect, but well suited for sedative effects. My experience has been the same.

If I want to maximize speed with a decarboxylated mixture, I cease cooking it at 250F when the extracted oil pool is for the most part quiescent, with minor small CO2 bubbles breaking at the edge of the pool when I poke at it using a glass rod or my trusty scientific grade bamboo skewer.

If I want a more sedative sleep med, I cook to dead quiescence.

How close are you to Portland? Your question is exactly why our informal skunk pharm group started giving pro bono extraction classes, so patients can look, smell, and feel the total process, after which no recipes are necessary.

[Batboy]

Thanks for the reply GW. I really enjoy reading your knowledgable posts on this subject. Sadly, I am about as far away as you can get from Portland while still living in the continental U.S.; otherwise I would love nothing more than a hands-on lesson from your experienced group. If they were willing to do it pro bono in person, then how about some youtube or similar video series for those of us out of reach? Obviously some of the look, smell and feel for the process would unfortunately be lost.

Here is where I (and maybe others) am still confused: you say that plant material going directly into a 200F oven will not decarb because it doesn't really ever reach 200F, isn't that also the case with a 250F oil bath? The oil may reach 250F, but the material inside the container sitting in the bath will be somewhat lower, no? So am I looking for the oil bath to hit 250F or the mixture itself? I think what you are saying is that life would be easier if we ditched the time/temp/exact recipe mindset and focused instead on the bubbles, smell, etc., which is hard for peeps like me with no experience. Thus the need for the class. . . and that takes us back to the beginning. . . .

Slightly OT - I am trying to apply these lessons to oral glycerin and alcohol-based tinctures (using either ISO, everclear or glycerin for extraction) to try to ease my wife's pain. Does your advice differ for those methods versus the external, topical use of the Holy Annointing Oil?

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by Batboy

Thanks for the reply GW. I really enjoy reading your knowledgable posts on this subject. Sadly, I am about as far away as you can get from Portland while still living in the continental U.S.; otherwise I would love nothing more than a hands-on lesson from your experienced group. If they were willing to do it pro bono in person, then how about some youtube or similar video series for those of us out of reach? Obviously some of the look, smell and feel for the process would unfortunately be lost.

Here is where I (and maybe others) am still confused: you say that plant material going directly into a 200F oven will not decarb because it doesn't really ever reach 200F, isn't that also the case with a 250F oil bath? The oil may reach 250F, but the material inside the container sitting in the bath will be somewhat lower, no? So am I looking for the oil bath to hit 250F or the mixture itself? I think what you are saying is that life would be easier if we ditched the time/temp/exact recipe mindset and focused instead on the bubbles, smell, etc., which is hard for peeps like me with no experience. Thus the need for the class. . . and that takes us back to the beginning. . . .

Slightly OT - I am trying to apply these lessons to oral glycerin and alcohol-based tinctures (using either ISO, everclear or glycerin for extraction) to try to ease my wife's pain. Does your advice differ for those methods versus the external, topical use of the Holy Annointing Oil?

It doesn’t fully decarb in the 200F oven because it isn’t in there long enough, but what ever temperature it reaches in the 200F oven definitely does have some decarboxylation effect. What I am saying is that it is difficult to compute how much time has been spent under the curve when it spends 10 minutes at 200F in the oven, 173 F when boiling off the alcohol, and 250F in the oil bath. Rather than try to figure it out mathematically and be wrong anyway, it is easier to watch the bubbles.

I decarboxylate my sublingual Holy Shit formula the same way.

It doesn’t work with an alcohol tincture because you can’t get an alcohol tincture to 250F without having it under pressure. I make alcohol tincture by decarboxylating the oil and then re-dissolving it in alcohol.

[TheMadHasher]

Originally Posted by kushkommander

me two!

Whats up kush? I didn't know you were on here too

[ElRubio]

i thought this thread was related with the Exodus plant (UK Cheese)....the Other Exodus hehehe
LMAO

youll never stop to surprise me GW....impressive