True Breeding autoflowering males theory - Mdanzig Seeds - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

Archstanton420 · 08-10-2009, 06:23 PM

Now this is just a theory because I have not yet actually put it into practice. I do however know that advanced plant breeders are not only using gibberillic acid etc to produce feminized seed but that they are also employing techniques of "plant tissue culture" to produce literally an infinite amount of (specimens, sites, clones ). They are also using colchicines to double plants chromosomes for various purposes. Most strains are diploids meaning they have 20 chromosomes, 10 from the mommy and 10 from the daddy. With the colchicines method you can make a tetraploid etc. by doubling the copies of the plant's chromosomes. Since Auto flowering strains cannot be cloned the usual asexual method of rooting a cutting with hormones. A cool way would be to Tissue culture a good specimen and suspend the cells in animation; of course this would also limit the biodiversity and leave you with only one favorite smoke.

TO get to my point, there is another way to do it. Have your cake and eat it too so to speak and this is called “double haploid breeding” where plantlets are raised from male pollen grains! Look it up in Google. It is used quite often in tobacco, corn wheat rice etc breeding! The idea is basically to raise a plantlet in tissue culture in a test tube from male pollen which would give you a (male of course) haploid containing 10 chromosomes! Haploids usually grow deformed, weakly and are useless and sterile but when a diploid auto flower male plant raised from "proven good male pollen"! Such as MDanzig's masterlow for example is raised, the pollen carefully tested and collected and the chromosomes are doubled using colchicines then what you end up with is a double-haploid male and these types of male plants grow super strong, are not sterile and produce "true breeding" pollen which passes on the most desirable traits in ONE single generation that can be used...well use your imagination! Look it up for yourself and any feedback is welcome.

I have successfully tissue cultured a Matanuska Tundra x DJ Short "Blue Thunder" AKA Kodiak Gold hermaphrodite plant that I got from Reeferman a few years back when he was called prairie fire seed company because it was my favorite medication. I still have hermie selfed stock from it but the mother is dead! I know I can raise a double haploid male once I can locate some good pollen from a Blue Streak! And for that reason I need to make as many seeds as possible and label as carefully as possible. I have also been reading reports and seeing photos of "twins" that is two embryos from a from a single germinated seed. I recommend a good article in Soft Secrets UK by an Alaskan breeder where this is discussed. I will look up the exact info and post it later. But for now Look up what I have just posted and any feedback is welcome. Remember, I cannot always check my message and do not yet have a camera but the best if yet to come…I HOPE. Good luck to everyone and I hope we can take this shit to the next level like our good pals Mdanzig, reeferman, Joint Doctor, S_a_H etc have done! Great job everyone!

For now GOOGLE “double haploid male breeding”
Here is a good example in PDF! https://www.sardi.sa.gov.au/__data/as...ntbreeding.pdf

resin_lung · 08-10-2009, 06:37 PM

I would LOVE to see the pics of Kodiak Gold that was successfully tissue cultured!!!! I would love to hear about your nutrient mix! All the commercially available ones I have tried have yielded zero success. I have gotten them to produce callus, and keep them mold free for months after but.... nothing.

I don't know much about the other stuff but was pretty well read on the subject of tissue culture a few years ago. I've since lost interest in the technique but would love to hear or see something that re-sparks my interest.

Archstanton420 · 08-10-2009, 06:53 PM

Dude just you tube "plant tissue culture" and you'll get a ton of info. If you got it to callus then you are halfway there. I also recommend a good old school made in USA hand help hole puncher so you can take precise uniform cuts "hockey puck shaped" disk selections from the chose specimens. I have NO pisc unfortunately but I DO have seeds I plant to mik with Blue Streak soon. I need to replace my camera. Just wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubled_haploidy
And you'll find some cool stuff. I also recommend some good Japanese Bonsai tools, wound hormones and that you read up on Folke Skoog here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_K._Skoog
Like I said the best is yet to some. THere was a Californai Orange Bud I lost and along with a Shishkaberry I had crossed with is accidentally. The bud's looked like "Rail Road Spikes! Rusted old one but nontheless the mose tasty potent stuff around!

Oh yeah beware that ordering tools and hormones from Japan and hawaii in fact where hand pollenation is common can be a little tricky and expensive! But well worth it! YOu should see how they are hand pollenating pear trees now in China becasue if CCD CBees all gone Colony colapse disorder! Cool stuff!

Anyways, the Kodiak Gold was easy to clone and selfed itself with seeds with sligh variation. I am working on trying to clone Autoflowering strains using the right mix of hormones to keep the "cell" in suspended animation until I am ready to make as many specimens as I need to medicate with. For now. I am working in a tiny area. Tiny but as sterile as possible. TO capture the videos from youtube I use https://www.captureyoutube.net/
I save it then watch it over and over to catch all the details. Basically it is all about good selection! pretty soon I hope to make a bunch of seeds to work with and then of course with DJ Short's blueberry in the mix you CANNOT go wrong!

resin_lung · 08-10-2009, 07:30 PM

I've seen everything you tube has to offer in regards to tissue culture. I sat through all the instructional video from university of florida. I've successfully cultured plants before- african violets and different ornamentals but never cannabis. Although I was able to get them to produce callus, I never got plantlets to grow from the callus, much less get the plantlet to root.

I've search the internet far and wide and have only seen 1 or 2 pictures of plantlets growing on a callus. I've never seen the plants grown out. Sure wish you had pics.

Edit- I have access to a Lab and clean room. I have access all tools required.

Archstanton420 · 08-11-2009, 03:36 PM

Once you get to the callus stage, a 50/50 mix of KLN and Root Juice with leonardite which is basically the right combination of auxins+Cytokins should produce shoots! THe double haploid thing I hope to try is a bit more difficult.
If you don't mind me asking, which plant are you trying to tissue culture?? Deep freeezing also works for preserving the germplasm. I recommend a program on NOVA titled the search for Absolute Zero!
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/zero/atoms.html
Also the University of florida stuff sucks. Informative but boring. You basically need the right mix of Skoog-Murashige mix and a lot of trial and error. Don't give up and use 20-4 lighting not the constant dark periosd they tell you. Also expect some somaclonal variation in your plantlets and not the uiniformity that we get when cloning the asexual way. I am pretty sure it will work for auto flowering strains as well. I only with I could isolate the gene for autoflowering and then apply the agrobacterium method and apply it to something like Kali Mist or Hawaiian Sativa!:-) THat would kick ass! Perhaps grafting onto such a rootstock would also work???? Lots of research needs to be done and I guess that's what we're here for. The good thing is that we have the Joint Doctor's hard work to thank. I'll bust my ass to get a camera I can take some good pics with and post some of my work so others can benefit. At the present time, I am posting this stuff in a lab where NOSY folks all congregate and look over my shoulder! Remember "one man's paranoia is another man's preparation"!

resin_lung · 08-11-2009, 07:31 PM

[quote= You basically need the right mix of Skoog-Murashige mix and a lot of trial and error.[/QUOTE]

this is my prob I'm sure. I've only used ready made mixes. never my own mix.

At the time I was trying to culture Sensi Star.

Did you take notes on the exact mix you used?

Archstanton420 · 08-11-2009, 11:49 PM

No I did not take notes but when I was in contact with Steve Tuck of Hillbilly Dreams/Irish Rose , He helped out a lot. Actually I have been thinking I probably will not be doing any tissue culture stuff for quite a while until I can get seeds that are looking quite homogenous like for example what Soma offers! And some good stability and potency. For now it is traditional breeding. Besides, I have never grown out any autoflowering strains before so I am a bit excited to see what I can do with these genetics.

resin_lung · 08-12-2009, 12:10 AM

Darn! It's the trial and error part that kills me! I've never been the most patient person. I'm sure why my successes were few and far between. What a pleasure it must have been to work with breeders like that! good luck with the auto's. Peace

Archstanton420 · 08-12-2009, 12:28 AM

I'll dig up what info I can as many of those folk I am no loner in contact with or they are too busy working on outdoor super sativas. I originally was inspired by an article by OT1 where he has like 40 mother plants in bonsai form and I wondered how i could preserve all my favorites too. I can get the mix of medium for you soon. I recommend a good book called Mendel in the kitchen by Nina V. Federof
https://books.google.com/books?id=kWs...age&q=&f=false

Just be cautious because Nina is now an advisor to the Secretary of State Hilary Clinton and asking her about this stuff can raise some eyebrows. But the book is good! Very good!

resin_lung · 08-12-2009, 02:00 AM

Thanks A420, that would be way cool of you! I'll look into that book, and thanks for the warning. LOL I have "plants from test tubes", which I think is a very good book.

08-10-2009, 06:23 PM	#1
Archstanton420 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: in a filing cabinet of nosy old folks, drunks and dead beat dads. Posts: 120	True Breeding autoflowering males theory Now this is just a theory because I have not yet actually put it into practice. I do however know that advanced plant breeders are not only using gibberillic acid etc to produce feminized seed but that they are also employing techniques of "plant tissue culture" to produce literally an infinite amount of (specimens, sites, clones ). They are also using colchicines to double plants chromosomes for various purposes. Most strains are diploids meaning they have 20 chromosomes, 10 from the mommy and 10 from the daddy. With the colchicines method you can make a tetraploid etc. by doubling the copies of the plant's chromosomes. Since Auto flowering strains cannot be cloned the usual asexual method of rooting a cutting with hormones. A cool way would be to Tissue culture a good specimen and suspend the cells in animation; of course this would also limit the biodiversity and leave you with only one favorite smoke. TO get to my point, there is another way to do it. Have your cake and eat it too so to speak and this is called “double haploid breeding” where plantlets are raised from male pollen grains! Look it up in Google. It is used quite often in tobacco, corn wheat rice etc breeding! The idea is basically to raise a plantlet in tissue culture in a test tube from male pollen which would give you a (male of course) haploid containing 10 chromosomes! Haploids usually grow deformed, weakly and are useless and sterile but when a diploid auto flower male plant raised from "proven good male pollen"! Such as MDanzig's masterlow for example is raised, the pollen carefully tested and collected and the chromosomes are doubled using colchicines then what you end up with is a double-haploid male and these types of male plants grow super strong, are not sterile and produce "true breeding" pollen which passes on the most desirable traits in ONE single generation that can be used...well use your imagination! Look it up for yourself and any feedback is welcome. I have successfully tissue cultured a Matanuska Tundra x DJ Short "Blue Thunder" AKA Kodiak Gold hermaphrodite plant that I got from Reeferman a few years back when he was called prairie fire seed company because it was my favorite medication. I still have hermie selfed stock from it but the mother is dead! I know I can raise a double haploid male once I can locate some good pollen from a Blue Streak! And for that reason I need to make as many seeds as possible and label as carefully as possible. I have also been reading reports and seeing photos of "twins" that is two embryos from a from a single germinated seed. I recommend a good article in Soft Secrets UK by an Alaskan breeder where this is discussed. I will look up the exact info and post it later. But for now Look up what I have just posted and any feedback is welcome. Remember, I cannot always check my message and do not yet have a camera but the best if yet to come…I HOPE. Good luck to everyone and I hope we can take this shit to the next level like our good pals Mdanzig, reeferman, Joint Doctor, S_a_H etc have done! Great job everyone! For now GOOGLE “double haploid male breeding” Here is a good example in PDF! https://www.sardi.sa.gov.au/__data/as...ntbreeding.pdf
	Quote

08-10-2009, 06:37 PM	#2
resin_lung I cough up honey oil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SFV Posts: 2,071	I would LOVE to see the pics of Kodiak Gold that was successfully tissue cultured!!!! I would love to hear about your nutrient mix! All the commercially available ones I have tried have yielded zero success. I have gotten them to produce callus, and keep them mold free for months after but.... nothing. I don't know much about the other stuff but was pretty well read on the subject of tissue culture a few years ago. I've since lost interest in the technique but would love to hear or see something that re-sparks my interest.
	Quote

08-10-2009, 06:53 PM	#3
Archstanton420 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: in a filing cabinet of nosy old folks, drunks and dead beat dads. Posts: 120	Dude just you tube "plant tissue culture" and you'll get a ton of info. If you got it to callus then you are halfway there. I also recommend a good old school made in USA hand help hole puncher so you can take precise uniform cuts "hockey puck shaped" disk selections from the chose specimens. I have NO pisc unfortunately but I DO have seeds I plant to mik with Blue Streak soon. I need to replace my camera. Just wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubled_haploidy And you'll find some cool stuff. I also recommend some good Japanese Bonsai tools, wound hormones and that you read up on Folke Skoog here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_K._Skoog Like I said the best is yet to some. THere was a Californai Orange Bud I lost and along with a Shishkaberry I had crossed with is accidentally. The bud's looked like "Rail Road Spikes! Rusted old one but nontheless the mose tasty potent stuff around! Oh yeah beware that ordering tools and hormones from Japan and hawaii in fact where hand pollenation is common can be a little tricky and expensive! But well worth it! YOu should see how they are hand pollenating pear trees now in China becasue if CCD CBees all gone Colony colapse disorder! Cool stuff! Anyways, the Kodiak Gold was easy to clone and selfed itself with seeds with sligh variation. I am working on trying to clone Autoflowering strains using the right mix of hormones to keep the "cell" in suspended animation until I am ready to make as many specimens as I need to medicate with. For now. I am working in a tiny area. Tiny but as sterile as possible. TO capture the videos from youtube I use https://www.captureyoutube.net/ I save it then watch it over and over to catch all the details. Basically it is all about good selection! pretty soon I hope to make a bunch of seeds to work with and then of course with DJ Short's blueberry in the mix you CANNOT go wrong!
	Quote

08-10-2009, 07:30 PM	#4
resin_lung I cough up honey oil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SFV Posts: 2,071	I've seen everything you tube has to offer in regards to tissue culture. I sat through all the instructional video from university of florida. I've successfully cultured plants before- african violets and different ornamentals but never cannabis. Although I was able to get them to produce callus, I never got plantlets to grow from the callus, much less get the plantlet to root. I've search the internet far and wide and have only seen 1 or 2 pictures of plantlets growing on a callus. I've never seen the plants grown out. Sure wish you had pics. Edit- I have access to a Lab and clean room. I have access all tools required.
	Quote

08-11-2009, 03:36 PM	#5
Archstanton420 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: in a filing cabinet of nosy old folks, drunks and dead beat dads. Posts: 120	Once you get to the callus stage, a 50/50 mix of KLN and Root Juice with leonardite which is basically the right combination of auxins+Cytokins should produce shoots! THe double haploid thing I hope to try is a bit more difficult. If you don't mind me asking, which plant are you trying to tissue culture?? Deep freeezing also works for preserving the germplasm. I recommend a program on NOVA titled the search for Absolute Zero! https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/zero/atoms.html Also the University of florida stuff sucks. Informative but boring. You basically need the right mix of Skoog-Murashige mix and a lot of trial and error. Don't give up and use 20-4 lighting not the constant dark periosd they tell you. Also expect some somaclonal variation in your plantlets and not the uiniformity that we get when cloning the asexual way. I am pretty sure it will work for auto flowering strains as well. I only with I could isolate the gene for autoflowering and then apply the agrobacterium method and apply it to something like Kali Mist or Hawaiian Sativa!:-) THat would kick ass! Perhaps grafting onto such a rootstock would also work???? Lots of research needs to be done and I guess that's what we're here for. The good thing is that we have the Joint Doctor's hard work to thank. I'll bust my ass to get a camera I can take some good pics with and post some of my work so others can benefit. At the present time, I am posting this stuff in a lab where NOSY folks all congregate and look over my shoulder! Remember "one man's paranoia is another man's preparation"!
	Quote

08-11-2009, 07:31 PM	#6
resin_lung I cough up honey oil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SFV Posts: 2,071	[quote= You basically need the right mix of Skoog-Murashige mix and a lot of trial and error.[/QUOTE] this is my prob I'm sure. I've only used ready made mixes. never my own mix. At the time I was trying to culture Sensi Star. Did you take notes on the exact mix you used?
	Quote

08-11-2009, 11:49 PM	#7
Archstanton420 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: in a filing cabinet of nosy old folks, drunks and dead beat dads. Posts: 120	No I did not take notes but when I was in contact with Steve Tuck of Hillbilly Dreams/Irish Rose , He helped out a lot. Actually I have been thinking I probably will not be doing any tissue culture stuff for quite a while until I can get seeds that are looking quite homogenous like for example what Soma offers! And some good stability and potency. For now it is traditional breeding. Besides, I have never grown out any autoflowering strains before so I am a bit excited to see what I can do with these genetics.
	Quote

08-12-2009, 12:10 AM	#8
resin_lung I cough up honey oil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SFV Posts: 2,071	Darn! It's the trial and error part that kills me! I've never been the most patient person. I'm sure why my successes were few and far between. What a pleasure it must have been to work with breeders like that! good luck with the auto's. Peace
	Quote

08-12-2009, 12:28 AM	#9
Archstanton420 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: in a filing cabinet of nosy old folks, drunks and dead beat dads. Posts: 120	I'll dig up what info I can as many of those folk I am no loner in contact with or they are too busy working on outdoor super sativas. I originally was inspired by an article by OT1 where he has like 40 mother plants in bonsai form and I wondered how i could preserve all my favorites too. I can get the mix of medium for you soon. I recommend a good book called Mendel in the kitchen by Nina V. Federof https://books.google.com/books?id=kWs...age&q=&f=false Just be cautious because Nina is now an advisor to the Secretary of State Hilary Clinton and asking her about this stuff can raise some eyebrows. But the book is good! Very good!
	Quote

08-12-2009, 02:00 AM	#10
resin_lung I cough up honey oil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SFV Posts: 2,071	Thanks A420, that would be way cool of you! I'll look into that book, and thanks for the warning. LOL I have "plants from test tubes", which I think is a very good book.
	Quote