In Jorge Cervantes DVD he says keep organic PH above 6 and below 6.5, is this true I shouldnt try to maintain PH of 5.8 ( with swings into the 6s )?

[DrunkenMessiah]

pH can be tricky business when it comes to organics. I would generally agree with Mr. Cervantes. I run a hybrid hydro system what is fertilized almost exclusively with organics (check the link in my sig) and run a pH of exactly 6.5 This is because my medium is totally overrun with beneficial microbes, the OBBT technique breeds the little buggers faster than any other I know of. A pH of 6.5 is optimum for micro-life.

More traditional mineral-based hydro grows tend to run a pH closer to 5.8 This is because the more acidic solution speeds the rate of osmosis. This is desirable because non-microbially-assisted grows are at the mercy of osmosis to deliver nutrients to the plants.

If you are going organic you need to make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. The only advantage that organic nutes have is that they can be used without harming beneficial micro-life. Other than that they are inferior to salt nutes in every way. (much shorter shelf life, lower nutrient potency, high percentage of water-insoluble nutrients) The closer you are to a pH of 6.5 the happier your microbes will be. Extremely active microbe colonies (such as those found in my OBBTs) are able to affect the soil chemistry so strongly that they will actually set the pH for you. I have found that once the little guys have fully taken over the medium there is actually very little that the gardener can do to change the pH without cocking up the plants.

Keep our microscopic friends in mind when gardening with organics, they are the only reason we get any benefit over the mineral-nute-faithful at all! Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Thanks Jorge also said you can run at a higher EC and that nute burn is almost impossible. I tested this by hammering my seedling with 800pm water for 4 days and so far growth has sped up, no signs of burns or anything.. so I am assuming yes EC can run higher in an organic garden? ( but may be just a waste of nutes? )

[DrunkenMessiah]

Ehh, not sure what Mr. Cervantes is on about when it comes to running a higher EC with organics. EC is Electrical Conductivity and is an indication of the salinity of your medium/hydro solution. Basically it tells you what the salt content of your grow is. Real organic nutes contain very little salt/mineral content which means that organic grows should run a much lower EC, not higher.

As I stated, the only advantage of organics is the support of strong microbes. Dousing the grow in salt/mineral nutes totally negates this benefit. Jorge must be teaching some sort of mad organic/mineral technique that I have yet to learn about. I've been growing organic for ages now and the EC of my runoff has yet to crack 0.5 even when I'm running doses of Bloom Burst during flower. Beats the hell out of me man, what you and Jorge are cooking up is beyond the bounds of my experience.

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Heh his DVD barely goes into any details, he even re-uses clips from the 1st dvd in his 2nd. not that great of a dvd. its ok.

Turns out Fox farm is not true organics so i guess I am essentially running chemical and therefore should use 5.8?

Thanks

I am using DWC. Is there any chance of microbes in this environment? I'm thinking just salts right?

[DrunkenMessiah]

Originally Posted by lysol

I am using DWC. Is there any chance of microbes in this environment? I'm thinking just salts right?

wat?

Uhh, no, not really. Not any that will make a difference anyway.

Allright, I exaggerate, anywhere that there is edible organic material there will be bacteria around to eat it. Running DWC you will have boatloads of oxygen so any bacteria that do show up will be harmless/slightly helpful aerobic bacteria. DWC is great but involves having most of the root mass in oxygenated water. Mycorhizae fungus is incapable of forming a mycelim network in water, no matter how high the total dissolved oxygen. Fungus needs a substrate, something to colonize. Without the fungus to team up with the lonely aerobacteria can do little more than prevent the presence of harmful pathogens. That's really great, but you could do that by just running pure salt nutes or using a little hydrogen peroxide. Without the fungal/bacterial superteam I see no reason to dabble in organics at all.

5.8 is the preferred pH for oxygenated hydro in which a strong tag-team microbial population will not be present. 'Sterile' mineral-fed hydro is a tried and true method, it can net stunning results in an identical manner over and over again. Unless specifically looking to experiment, cannabis hydro gardeners who don't embrace dual-action micro-life should stick to one of the many wonderful mineral-based techniques already in existance. A DWC rig run at a pH of 5.8 is one such technique, it should serve you well!

Enjoy your super-nugs. We organic gardeners will still be around if you care to take a stab at harboring strong micro-life in the future. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Thanks sounds interesting maybe I'll give it a go someday, your method sounds good. Just to clarify I previously stated I was slamming a seedling with nutes please everyone disregard this advice, not sure whats wrong with the thing think I burned it.. Anyways peace

[DrunkenMessiah]

Heh, that's what happens. Seedlings can't ordinarily stand a high degree of free-floating nutrient content.

The only way to expose new plants to very high levels of nutrients is through active organics. By using beneficial micro-life to capture all of the nutritional content up front it is possible to make extremely high concentrations of nutes available to the plants from day one. This is an advantage exclusive to active organics and is one of my favorite things about it.

Look deep inside yourself Lysol, you know it to be true. Come to The Brown Side and together we will rule the galaxy!

Err, I mean thanks for the interest, we'll see if we can't get you on a real organic regime next time around. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

Yeah for sure, I appreciate more then most people how ignorant the human race can be, we think we're all sittin pretty with our chemistries & technologies but any smart person will tell you the more we know the more we realize how little we actually do know. These processes had to create US before WE created the technology.