[hyperseth]

recently I've become familiar with a group of people working on a program called "Herb and Compassion."

the mission is based around finding people who could benefit from cannabis therapy who would otherwise not have the resources for it, provide doctor's evaluations for medical cannabis necessity, and then to deliver and monitor dosage and effectiveness of the treatment plan several times per week; all at no direct cost to the patients. the current funding is coming out of the pockets of the handful of people dedicated to bringing this project to life, but the devotion to this is strong.

We are now in the process of writing a six to twelve page booklet to be used for free general distribution after March 25th.

Over the next three days (until the evening of the 21st) we'll be spending our time deciding what articles need to be included, figuring out what is really important for California patients, caregivers, and potential patients to know and organizing this information. interviews with patients will be performed, informational books and dvds will be evaluated for review, page layout will be assembled, and statement articles will be written.

Monday and Tuesday will be spent writing most of the articles and compiling information from important sources. By Tuesday everything will be together and on Wednesday everything will be wrapped up.

Printing is one week from today.
---


ICMAG userbase, I'd like input on what kind of information should be included in this booklet. any type of contribution is helpful, and we will not stop adding to this booklet after Thursday. This is only the first printing.

Much more to come.

Anything you have to say will be fully considered by all involved with HerbandCompassion.

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
There are a number of things that would have helped me to know, after I got sick and then finally found pot could help me......I am still learning, and will always be, I suppose.

that's great. i think after a few revisions and some additions we're really going to have something here that can be used as the starting point of cannabis therapy for a person that has never learned anything about it, whether they have been around cannabis or not.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
The patients need to feel that what they are doing does not make them a "druggie", a "stoner", a bad person or one who is just trying to "escape" life. It should be made absolutely clear that pot is a LAST RESORT medication.. Patients should try these routes before resorting to pot.

or in many cases: what they or their doctors might be considering for them will not make them a stoner.
we well be sure to explain the differences between escaping pain and trauma rather than escaping life. escaping is not the word i'd use for it, but for the sake of getting this reply up...

also: in california the image of cannabis therapy as a safer and healthier alternative to conventional medications is emerging very quickly. we've all tried advil, we've all tried vicodin or something liek it at one point or another, and that's all that we need to be convinced that a better way must be used.
i understand completely the importance of not making it appear that we think cannabis can be used for anything and everything, but a lot of the time people are have gotten used to having something around for everything and anything, and in these cases these people could be living longer, healthier, and safer lives.

we obviously don't completely see that in the same way, and that's great.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Additionally, it should be noted that medical pot is not for everyone. It's a crude medication at best, and does carry it's own risks.

after being around enough sicklies, you come to the understanding that all medication seems crude at best. i've been writing down every dose for over two months, but more on that later i can see.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
for most patients, they were not regular (or ever even!) pot smokers before they got sick. They will be (rightly) nervous about smoking pot, to resorting to this. They need to know that if they truly need this stuff, then they should not feel bad about it. They need to feel legitimate in their treatment. Recommending counseling is also important. Not drug counseling- counseling to help the patient MENTALLY deal with their disease and it's impacts

that's what i went through. counseling is a very important suggestion, i'm working on ideas for an article in this booklet about how faith can make any form of treatment more effective, because we can't afford to send patients to counselers just yet. two or three years from now, though, providing quality counseling during the "house calls" may become a very important part of successful cannabis therapy.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Patients MUST also inform their doctors... not just the doc that wrote the prescription. ALL of their doctors. These doctors (GP or specialists) must also be given materials regarding WHY they need to do this, why something so medically "fringe" is necessary. Possibly even suggestions on how to talk to family/friends. Hiding and suffering alone doesn't help someone who is sick and needs support.

it's important that doctors do not always agree with one another. you're regular doctor may prescribe different medication than your cannabis specialist would if only because they are uneducated on the medicinal benefits of cannabis. talking to your doctor is important because a person going through recovery has the goal of one day taking no medication for what they are suffering.
keeping on the quiet about the proper use of medical cannabis does nothing for the sick and only serves to keep poisons profitable.
(considers a prednisone tangent... not appropriate on second thought.)

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Again, most patients are NOT experienced pot smokers.

the type of people who need this information most desperately.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
This chapter deals with teaching the patient, and potentially their doctors, how pot is to be used and what to expect.

we have to teach the patients information that the doctors can use in a way that every patient can easily understand.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Three methods need to be discussed. First is smoking, the most common, because of it's ease, and it's the route most users will start with.

an article on totally safe delivery methods will be written, and within that article smoking will be explained as an acceptable alternative delivery. this is probably where titration will be explained as well, and how titration relates to every medication a person takes.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Laugh if you want, but give some subjective reports so that an inexperienced user will know what to expect. Someone who does not smoke pot may experience transient anxiety until they get used to it. It may be worthwhile to suggest to physician that if a patient has no experience with pot, then possibly a low-dose anti anxiety agent (ativan, etc) be given along with it for the first few times. You don't want patients getting distressed or worried; there are a lot of old rumors out there, and some get afraid. This is commonly done with antidepressants and several other medications; in this respect, pot is no different.

side effect that can distract from or obliterate the therapeutic benefits of ANY medication are no laughing matter. a good thing to include will be that someone who has developed a tolerance to cannabis will need hundreds of times as much cannabis than someone who only needs the benefits less than a dozen times per month.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
I like the Vapir system, due to it's portability and the fact that it really does come across as a medical device and not a "bong" or something.

vapir is one i have no experience with.
I'll be writing about the volcano, and a few other tools i have a lot of experience with. providing a volcano for a patient to use is as important as providing medication, the way i see it.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared Tinctures and foods are the third. Though effective, they need to explained as having a different effect than smoking; including the onset of action delay (titration issues) and larger doses required due to efficiency losses. Basic tincture, candy and cannabutter recipes should be given.

cannabutter is complicated enough.. perhaps links should be provided to cannabutter recipes?
i don't think that information on lipid extraction would be very helpful for the person just beginning to find out about medical cannabis, and this patient wouldn't have to worry about refining their medication because it will all be provided to them at no cost.

I've recently started using tincture, and i can't imagine the type of lab work it would take to get to the one-half drop dosage that the BPG sells. we're years off from that one, I'm sure of it.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Encourage the patient to find the best method and regimen for themselves, and once found, stick to it.

I've found, and i can't be alone in this, that different delivery methods work for different symptoms. i rarely use the volcano when i wake up in the middle of the night for an hour "on the pot," tincture is better for that because i don't have to wake myself up all the way to use it. i think an article about the different types of delivery methods and why people use them...

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
If more frequent or larger dosing is required, it is time to contact their doctor; you don't want to mask a worsening condition by over medication.

I've seen an 84yrold osteoporosis patient walk 400 laps around his house on vicodin because eh thought it would make himself stronger. he spent a month in bed under hallucinations due to injury and over-medication after this.

masking conditions is a very serious problem in medication that works, and we take it seriously.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Additionally, if a patient finds themselves dramatically increasing their intake, they may in fact have a problem with pot... habituation (not physical dependence/addiction) does in fact happen with pot use for some folks. If usage goes beyond the medical, the patient needs to think about this; it may be time to stop, as harsh as that sounds. Increasing dosage on a medication is something a doctor needs to be involved in, no matter what the medication is.

this is why proper and comprehensive logging is so important. we want to help people live with the problems they face now, not create new ones for them to have to suffer with.

chapter three? better make a phonecall first.

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
When published, give a telephone number or an address where the patients can call/write/send a card with feedback. On the first contact from the patient, they should be given a number, which will be used from then on to track the patient- no names unless really necessary. The information that should be tracked:

1) Disease or condition that is being treated
2) subjective level of relief gained from pot
3) frequency and dosage
4) any problems/side effects

This gathered information should be collected in a database

With or without knowing it, you've once again stumbled upon what could be the main reason for starting this project. after logging my dosage for ten weeks I've found that frequency is the most important information a patient can provide themselves with. problems and side effects are equally important to note. if the treatment isn't providing the level of relief that is expected from it then that needs to be noted and adjustments need to be made, and the condition isn't as important as what symptoms are being treated through cannabis therapy.

it would be foolish to think that cannabis could treat all the symptoms of any condition, so it is very important to note the specific ailments that are to benefit from cannabis therapy.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
This trends then can be relayed back to patients (dosing standards) and doctors/researchers (efficacy standards) to come up with standardized guidelines for pot use.

couldn't have said that one any better.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
I'm saying that we should have a good idea of how much an MS patient should expect to use on average, etc.

for the potential patients more than anyone.

there would be nothing more terrifying and detrimental than being handed a bottle with 200 imuran in it and to be told to take them until you start feeling better and to keep taking that many. fortunately cannabis as a medicine proved itself to be non-harmful, but this is no substitute for a symptomatic dosage guideline that factors in body-weight and tolerance.

the people don't know how safe cannabis is, and when you talk to them about it you have to remember that in their minds this is a drug just as dangerous as heroin according to most people. working with that mindset will get you a lot further along than trying to fight it.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
In California alone, there are potentially thousands of "clinical study" patients right now. Use the information that most will be willing to provide!

bingo.
and when medication is being provided at no cost, this will become even more true.

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by mars2112
anyway just wanted to mention these books. you're probably already familiar with them. also will you be listing coops, have you spoken with or planning to contact ASA or the AMMA? interview doctors? also will you be addressing situations in different counties?

good luck, please let us know how we can help. are you taking donations etc? please keep us updated. this is important work you're doing.

thanks for telling me about those books. I've been through about half of them, but having those titles listed here will be good for everyone. the online bootleg book is new to me, i will be checking it out.

we won't be listing co-ops in this printing, but there may be an article written about them. in the next edition I'd like to have a small guide to the best co-ops in the bay area, but that's a very tricky thing to do. not something to be undertaken within the next six days.

on Saturday i might meet some people from the ASA or AMMA. we'd love to interview doctors but don't have enough information/names/numbers for this edition, but doctors will definitely have a larger voice throughout the booklet for future printings. we'll be addressing some important issues in the counties we all have a lot of personal experience with, but nothing based on existing media reports or anything like that.

we've discussed very lightly how to recover the costs of this project, but as of now and probably for at least another year it's out of pocket and there's nothing wrong with that. the only thing we've decided is that funding will never be a direct result of a person's need for medication. I'd rather see us accomplish absolutely nothing if the alternative is taking advantage of any patient's misfortune.

thanks for the luck, as far as help goes: the greatest help in the world right now for us would be the ideas for this booklet. if we can get a quality reference material out there the first time we try then the next steps will be exponentially easier.

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by mars2112
dont' forget that when you talk abot dosage, frequency or effectiveness with regard to treating an illness or condition, that cannabis is a unique medicine in that there are 1000s of strains and crosses that patients use. you can't make generalizations about how much one should use for this specific illness because strains' potency and effects vary so much. this should be addressed in this guide imho.

this is why i'm never going to focus on something like the weight of crude material used. i think explaining that there is a difference between cannabis that is farmed for fiber, cannabis that is farmed for ceremony, and canabis that is farmed for its' medicinal properties.

this would probably make things a lot clearer for a number of people that have found inconsistent relief from cannabis therapy.

[BushyOldGrower]

Having spent many years in the health setting I know that to have medical mari acceptable all these issues must be addressed.

When I read about the problems the Dutch are having keeping good medical mari in the pharmacies it was shown to me that the pharmicists weren't educated in the usage of marijuaua for the differing medical conditions. Dr's are still often in the dark also because like alternative medicine, medical marijuana is still trying to find acceptance among health professionals.

My biggest beef with alternative medicine publications and practitioners is that they often hesitate to recommend one of the finest alternative medicines available. The reason for this is that alternative medicine has little credibility with many medical professionals and marijuana might make them feel it would make their cause more riddled with obstacles.

Gaining acceptance for medical treatments requires proof and then clinical practice to prove it. MM is never given a fair chance due to the arrogance of medical establishments more concerned with regulations and licenses than helping regular folks deal with their sufferrings. Medical Mari is good medicine and some day everyone will recognize it.

Good thread Hyperseth! BOG

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
If getting a patient better means placing others at risk, then whatever the option is that helps the patient is not to be used.

agreed. statements like "while undergoing cannabis therapy you may not be able to drive" are important.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
4) Educate yourself and others; continue to look for better alternatives than pot. Pot works, but we all must agree it is not "ideal" as a medicine. For some, pot is stopgap until a better medication/treatment is found. If possible, a patient should explain their use- and back it up. Reference Sativex, reference real information.. it does exist.

all part of cannabis being a last resort of sorts. as of now, there is no "ideal" medication. a focus on wellness as opposed to a focus on illness will help change minds.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
A few more neckties and a few less tiedyes at the clinics, be Montel and not Tommy Chong (I love Tommy too, but it's not the image/situation we are dealing with. Medical use is not even vaguely related to Cheech and Chong). Bring the legitimacy, not ridicule. Heck, even if the tie-dye goes right back on when you get home, in public you need to carry the image of responsible medical use. Other images can HURT the struggle, resulting in patients not getting the help they need.

yes. you don't reach out to people by acting like you are from another planet. cannabis users are regular people, with regular lives.

it's been a long day, i don't have the go i had twelve hours earlier. i must attend a funeral tomorrow, so I'm hoping to get up early enough to get some work done beforehand.

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
What you need to do is be VERY professional and legitimate. No flippancy, no hippie graphics, talk to the doctor and patient, not the "pothead". If something like this is done RIGHT, including the drawbacks and being honest, then it adds so much to someone that DOESN"T understand. It could show them just how real this is, that patients are trying to get better, not get high. Show the world that we are taking the responsibility of handling this medication seriously,

the drawbacks are very important. people are afraid of something that sounds too good too be true. drawbacks are important. understanding is the goal, not salesmanship or recognition.

this has to be brought out of the clouds and down to earth, that one of the goals of a medical cannabis user is to no longer need cannabis in order to feel functional, well even.

we need to take more than this medication seriously, we need to take helping one another for no other reason than we can seriously.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
Some of these documents will make it to non-users, to lawmakers, to police, to doctors. Not only is this critically needed for patients, it can also be a wonderful tool PR wise- paint us in the right colors, if you can.

yes. the people that don't know are the people who need to know.

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
I'd like to think I'm not just rambling here to read my own crap; I'd like to think that I may in some small part actually help some people, people who are sick and need any help that they can get.

i totally understand what you contribute to this knowledge base, and it's an inspiration to see someone so dedicated towards finding a way in the dark to get a piece of his life back.

if we had half a dozen people with one-quarter of the determination as you over here working on this, we really could change the world.

[hyperseth]

Originally posted by Sick Andscared
What kind of person does it take to look at me, and other sick and dying people, and tell them they can't have the ONE medication which seems to work for them?

friend, it isn't one person. the dollar has us all chained together, and for this march to continue everyone has to participate. the chain might be made of prednisone and vicodin for people like us, but it's as strong a link as anywhere else.