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Old 05-14-2009, 06:29 AM   #16
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Hey Row,

I think maybe you really found the answer already. I'm just not sure if it's definitive.
Must sleep on it and see in the AM how I feel about this.

Last edited by Oldmac; 05-14-2009 at 02:23 PM.. Reason: should stop typing at some point sometimes
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:24 PM   #17
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Eureka Row!

After devoting more then a day thinking, reading and talking about this topic with some other people, and having slept on it (for at least 4hours), I woke up and had me a "eureka moment".

Row, I think you have come up with the most definitive answer yourself, when you found the DutchMasters' reccomendation for Pro-mix. They clearly address soiless mixes, name Pro-mix and give a resonable yet short reasoning behind the recomendation. I happen to use DM products and have never had a problem with them. I use DM Gold in my personnel grow (3 stage Rockwool, drip to waste) and DM Advance with the Pro-Mix. I like and trust this company so I'd go with them on this.

Also you have seen for yourself it ran better at PH of 6 then when stated higher. Why not go to 5.8 and see what happens and if it gets better, drop it .2 more and run at 5.6, etc. Somestime we all just have to experiment a little and find what works best for us and our stiuation.

Great thought provoking thread Row, hoping it continues since I know a lot of people use Pro-Mix, maybe we can get some others to tell us what's working for them.
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Old 05-15-2009, 02:49 AM   #18
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Eureka Row!

After devoting more then a day thinking, reading and talking about this topic with some other people, and having slept on it (for at least 4hours), I woke up and had me a "eureka moment".

Row, I think you have come up with the most definitive answer yourself, when you found the DutchMasters' reccomendation for Pro-mix. They clearly address soiless mixes, name Pro-mix and give a resonable yet short reasoning behind the recomendation. I happen to use DM products and have never had a problem with them. I use DM Gold in my personnel grow (3 stage Rockwool, drip to waste) and DM Advance with the Pro-Mix. I like and trust this company so I'd go with them on this.

Also you have seen for yourself it ran better at PH of 6 then when stated higher. Why not go to 5.8 and see what happens and if it gets better, drop it .2 more and run at 5.6, etc. Sometimes we all just have to experiment a little and find what works best for us and our situation.

Great thought provoking thread Row, hoping it continues since I know a lot of people use Pro-Mix, maybe we can get some others to tell us what's working for them.
Not to diss your "eureka moment"...
But I must say that the manufacturers of nutrient packages tend to recommend pH ranges that work best for their products. You mention that you're using the dm gold line for your rockwool drain to waste. If you run this product at 5.8 instead of DM's recommended 5.5, you are in essence chopping mag uptake significantly and eventually endangering cutting down several other micros, plus p &k as the pH drift goes upwards from your 5.8 start.

As for your use of dm advance line in the promix, you'll get no argument from me as your running the dm products and not the GH Flora series chem nutes, which is what Row is inquiring about here.

For their product line, in their own words, Dutch Masters says...
Quote:
"Check and adjust the pH 5.5 to 5.8 for Rockwool, Perlite, Clay, Aeroponics, Hydro or Coco users. 5.8 to 6.5 for soilless systems such as Promix or Sunshine mix."
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:28 AM   #19
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Yo' 10k,

Point well taken about different Mfg may recommend different PH's to more suit there perticular product. So what does GH Flora series chem nutes have to say about promix?

But since Row stated it was better at a PH of 6, what would be wrong with his trrying to go down say .2 next run to see if he gets better or worst results. Might even to go lower in steps......and that puts it closer or even into the area you think is best. This is how I've dialed in or "fine tuned" things like PH or nutes strength. etc, regardless of the media I am using. Using common sence; just like knowing when to water soil container plants.

You mentioned my use of DM Gold in my RW drip to waste, I never said what I use for that. Again what I use there, I arrived at that thru trial and error. As for rockwool; I don't like using it, don't recomend it, pretty much hate everything about....I use it cause it fits my needs, and it fits my GI-grow. It is why I have spent some time money and effort building and experimenting with aero/fog ponic grow trays setup I hope to get up and running soon.

I'm still poking around to see what other Pro-Mix users (you know who you are) have been using with thier brand of nutrients.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:56 AM   #20
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So what does GH Flora series chem nutes have to say about promix?
GH flora series is a hydroponic chem / mineral nute package. They say nothing about promix.

Flairform gives plentiful information about optimum pH ranges to avoid percipitation and damaged chem hydro mineral multipart nute solutions...
They advocate running a 5.0 to 6.0 range and proper mixing to avoid such solution damage.
http://www.flairform.com/hints/ph_optimum.htm
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:41 AM   #21
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Hey guys

Awesome info here,

just a quick post as im dam tired, been working for days.....

Seems to me that the answer we are getting close to is there is no answer!! and the line between soil less and hydro is blurry, testing seems the only way to go and thats easier said than done,

I my self am sticking with the 5.8 - 6.2 theory at the moment, the plants i just grew for the first run in this loc did well with a 6.0 pH, but that could be from other factors. I will be running some plants at a lower ph and some at the 6.0 pH in a room iv run before so if i again see good results ill be fairly sure its better to go with 6.0 than 6.0 - 6.5.

It would be really great to here from any promix users running a ph bellow 6.0, i have a friend of a friend that says he uses 5.9 all through flowering and he does dam well, but he could be doing dam well for other reasons too.

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Old 05-16-2009, 03:02 PM   #22
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Hey! We have a damn fine thread going here!!!

I've helped out a number of growers with pH problems over the years. You really have to know your source water before you can really dial your grow in. If you're using tap water, it has enough dissolved minerals in it to make low pH Hydro growing difficult. IMO, Hydro growing in the ranges 5-6 that 10K recommends needs RO or demineralized water.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:01 PM   #23
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Hey! We have a damn fine thread going here!!!

I've helped out a number of growers with pH problems over the years. You really have to know your source water before you can really dial your grow in. If you're using tap water, it has enough dissolved minerals in it to make low pH Hydro growing difficult. IMO, Hydro growing in the ranges 5-6 that 10K recommends needs RO or demineralized water.

Hi there Redgreenry,

I agree, fine thread and very thought provoking.

Kudos to Row for having started it.

Your point about the need for RO water is spot on, there is no way I could run the low PH I do with my RW unless I used it. In the Pro-mix grow I'm involved in, we are working off well water with a good amount of minerals in it. I saw it as no problem w/ P-mix (plus no money for RO filtering) but would never ever consider it for a true hydo set, like rw, nft, e&b etc.

I have always considered Pro-Mix, "dirt"; it's just as messy, dusty and dirty. It's only advantage over RW, easier to remove the roots and dump it somewhare like a garden.

So how do we go about getting some of the folks who use pro-mix to chime in with what they are doing? Do we need a new thread? (calling all pro-mixers?)

Last edited by Oldmac; 05-17-2009 at 09:04 PM.. Reason: lost thought
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:18 PM   #24
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Smile i like pro~mix...

i used to use RO water, but now pretty much just from the tap.

my water is pH 8.0-8.2 from the tap....

i try to hit 6.0-6.5, but even that is tough.

after mixing nutes/additives, i still use a good bit of pH down.

i am pretty smale-scale compared to you guys...just a few plants.

after trying soil, DWC, waterfarm, and a couple more methods, this is the one i do best with. for that reason alone, i am sticking with the pro~mix.

here's another question for you guys:

do you re-use your pro~mix?

do you do anything to it to eliminate any "hot spots"?

i re-use mine. after a grow, i dump all the used medium into a wheel barrow, mix it all nice...add some worm castings and some fresh pro~mix...mix it all up again, and store in rubbermaisd containers until i need it again.

peace.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:06 PM   #25
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Hello there Sleepy,

Nice to see another Pro-Mix user around.

I don't reccomend the reuse of any grow media.
P-mix has a lot of advantages, such as it being forgiving and most important inexpensive. I believe the best use for old p-mix is to dump it in your outdoor garden or something like that. At abt $25/bale (3.6cuft) I can't see going thru the trouble to reuse it.

BTW if you most reuse it, you should sterilize it (either bake it in an oven or steam it) then add any live amendments (stuff w/live microbes) after that. Oh almost forgot, you need to add back some dolomite lime to replace what's been depleted. The potential to bring bugs and pests and fungus from oustide into your indoor grow is very real. Many of the plant problems and grow room problems you see people ask about on these boards, in many cases would not exist with good hygiene.

I'm not sure what a "hot spot" is in relation to p-mix, you'll have to tell me.
woah, 7:00 am here, lights coming on, got work to do.
Later.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:41 PM   #26
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Oldmac...thanks for the tips!!

by 'hot spot' i meant: if the medium is not flushed properly, it can burn the young plants/seedlings in the next round(if being re-used).

thanks again, i will get a bale.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:07 PM   #27
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Ohhh, I see what a hot spot is.

Probably another reason not to reuse, but also comes under the heading of proper hygiene.
If re-useing you would first flush the hell out of your old stuff then sterilize, then amend it.

Hey Red, What are your thoughts on reuse?
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:27 PM   #28
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I reuse the soil by revegging the plant. I trim roots and repot into fresh soil once the new leaves come out. Promix is pretty cheap and it all goes into the composting box in the end for use on the outdoor flower beds. I prefer using fresh soil mix so you can have good control of your mix.

Sleepy is right on pointing out problems with nute retention and bugs. Vermiculite holds nutes a long time in the soil. I've had enough problems with seedlings, they get started in fresh seedling starter soil.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:22 PM   #29
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Whats going on my pot friends hope am not to late on this one.

I use pro mix HP with gh 3 step after switching from bio bizz. I still have the bio bizz products
but will leave that alone for right now. So back to the ph thing I did start a ph closer to soil like mixing food and phing to 6.5 that gave me all kind of problems but also had many envir. problems as well and that was with tap and organics.

But since i switched over to chem I have lower the ph and notice all the twisted leaves getting straight also I fixed some of the atmosphere problems as well.

But still need to fined tune things.

last person to post was almost 4mn ago any updates?
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:58 PM   #30
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There was a chart on OG that had all the soiless mixes with the pH that was needed to for each medium. This explained why the pH is different for each medium type.
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