[MBA]

Still going with the sub, you never know what the future brings! You know, I read somewhere last night, can't remember where. But I think it was from Lumatek, They said that dual voltage ballasts 120/240 were not as efficent as a 240v ballast. That their ballast were designed for 240v and and anything else was a trade off. They even said that light was brighter and produced less heat at 240v.Kind of confused me!

found it: https://www.igrowhydro.com/InfoSheets...et-Lumatek.pdf

[madpenguin]

There is some truth to that but take it with a grain of salt.

I was at Lowes yesterday and spent an hour walking the isles and putting together a list of things you would need in order to do this top notch.

I'll list the parts and costs now. Next time I go to lowes, I'll take my digital camera and snap pictures of everything and then modify this post to include pictures.

I won't buy all the crap and then assemble it so as to make a "proper" tutorial just because I can't afford it, but I'll go into enough detail that most anyone should be able to figure it out.

Parts List: (All can be had at Lowes)
====================

Originally Posted by Lowes

1 - 125A Main Lug Only Siemens loadcenter 4 spaces (4/8) #E0408ML11255U = $15.32
2 - 20A Double Pole Siemens Breaker at 10.25 a piece = $20.50
4 - Handy boxes (3 knockouts on each side) $.87 a piece = $3.48
2 - Handy box duplex cover at .59 a piece = $1.18
2 - Handy box simplex covers at .77 a piece = $1.54
1 - Ground bar kit (4 space) for QO Homeline panel = $3.79
1 - "6/2 & 8/2 Gauge" 4 wire Range Cord = $19.47
4 - NM metal cable clamps at .38 a piece = $1.52
1 - 25 pack of Red wire nuts = $2.69
1 - 25 pack of Blue wire nuts = $2.59
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You'll need a main breaker for the 200A main panel to feed the sub. Depends on what brand main panel you have:
1 - 50A Double Pole Siemens Breaker = $10.25
1 - 50A Double Pole QO Breaker = $15.47
1 - 50A Double Pole Cuttler Hammer Breaker = $9.47
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? - 6/3 NM-B Romex = $2.32 per foot
1 - T104R Intermatic Mechanical Timer DPST = $69.00
1 - NEMA 14-50R Receptacle 4 prong 50A = $11.97
2 - 3/4" NM metal Connector for both ends of 6/3 at .87 a piece = $.1.74
1 - 3/4" PVC Grey electrical conduit (10 feet stick) = $1.05
2 - 3/4" PVC Male Adapter at .38 a piece = $.76
5 - 3/4" PVC conduit clamps for wall (5 piece bag) = $1.08
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These may be redundant. Trying to remember why I wrote both down:
2 - 3/4" PVC conduit locknut for male adapter at .46 a piece = $.92
2 - 3/4" PVC insulated plastic bushing at .27 a piece = $.54
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2 - 20A 240v simplex single receptacles at 5.24 a piece = $10.48
2 - 20A 120v spec grade duplex receptacles at 3.29 a piece = $6.58

If you want a plug-n-play subpanel, then stick with the 50A DP main breaker that feeds the 6/3 run in your main panel. You will be terminating the 6/3 to the NEMA 14-50R wall mount receptacle and that's only rated for 50A. It's a range receptacle.

The range cord (50A) will be terminated to your portable subpanel and then plug into the NEMA 14-50R to fire it up. The plug will also serve as a local disconnecting means.

The Siemens 125A loadcenter will accommodate 2 handy boxes on either side quite nicely for a total of 4 handy boxes that are affixed directly to the sub panel. You could probably even squeeze one on the bottom of it.

I listed 2 - 240v 20A single receptacles above. That's if your running your lights at 240v. Otherwise, get the 120v 20A simplex single receptacles. Still feed them as a MWBC with a 20A double pole breaker in the sub using 12/3 wire. Say... The left 2 handy boxes.

Do the same thing with the right 2 handy boxes, only make those duplex receptacles fed with 12/3 on a DP 20A breaker (MWBC). Those will be for fans, pumps and what not.

I took the load center out of the box and looked at it. You can remove 2 screws and the internal guts of the panel will completely lift out. Drill 2 more holes further down so you can re-mount the entire assembly lower to the bottom of the panel. Ah shit..... That will make your cover knock outs not align up with where the breakers will be installed. Nevermind. You could still probably mount a 30A relay up top without modifying the panel guts. It might be tight but I think it'll still fit.

If you went with the relay (which lowes does not have), you could ditch the Intermatic timer and just use one of those "see them everywhere" digital timers that you could plug into one of your duplex receptacles.

Then go buy a 16/3 SJO cord (from Lowes) to plug into the timer and route the loose wire end through a nm connector back into the panel. Hook those wires up to the center contact of the relay coil. The wires coming off the 20A DP breaker that feeds your lights would terminate to the line side of the relay and then take more wire from the load side of the relay to feed your timed light simplex receptacles.

That would save you the money of having to buy the Intermatic.

Eh... I'm going to stop there. The conduit was just to protect/sleeve the 6/3 run coming down the outside of a wall. If that setup intrigues anyone, I'd be happy to go into further detail if you have any questions.

Remove the cost of the 69.00 intermatic timer and replace it with a 9.99 digital timer, one more nm connector, a 16/3 SJO cord and a 30A relay. You would save 10-20 bucks plus everything would fit inside your sub panel and you wouldn't have this rather large intermatic timer that would have to be separate from the sub.

Actually, My harvest is coming up in about 2 weeks. I think I'll go buy all that crap once I offload, make a step by step tutorial with pictures on how to assemble it, and then return everything when I'm done. God bless Lowes and their return policy.... ;-)

EDIT - As an afterthought, the MWBC/Double pole idea in a localized plug-n-play subpanel is kinda stupid. Not really a need for them. That load center has 4 spaces. I'd use all single pole breakers. Atleast for the lights. And if you wanted to try and squeeze more receptacles/circuits on the outside of the sub panel, you could use tandem breakers in the other 2 slots. That would give you a total of 6 circuits instead of 4..... Or actually, I'd probably still use a double pole MWBC for the relay and lights but slap 2 tandems on the other slots. That or one single pole and one tandem. Just depends on how many circuits you want.

[MBA]

Mad, You are SICK, you must love your craft, I wish we shopped at the same LOWES!
The plug/play sounds cool, but I plan on staying here. My main panel is a 200A Homeline, I'm thinking 60A,or 50A double pole feeding the 6/3w/g ROMEX to a Homeline 70A Sub terminating just outside the room. Then pulling my 20A circuts from there. I dout I'll ever have more than 30A connected.( 2-600's=10. a/c=5, dehuey=5,2-fans=3 other stuff=5 maybe) Just thought it would be nice to have it avaliable if I needed, it for future use. Thats why I ask about running the lights on 220V, since I have the option. I did read your tutorial about wiring the sub panel, I'm sure I can make it happen. Still not sure what kind of timer to go with, those little cheap thing look kinda "WELL CHEAP" I'll probably go with The Intermatic to power two recepticle and plug the lights and cooling fans there. Thanks again for all your help!

[madpenguin]

Originally Posted by MBA

Still not sure what kind of timer to go with, those little cheap thing look kinda "WELL CHEAP" I'll probably go with The Intermatic to power two recepticle and plug the lights and cooling fans there. Thanks again for all your help!

Those timers are cheap. Every hydroshop and online store has the same one. What they do is just put a hydrofarm or BGH sticker on the front of them and sort of claim them as their own.

I've been through quite a few in the past 2 years. Usually one of the receptacles will stop working or something.

But if you use a 30A relay and just use the cheap timer to trigger the center contacts, the 9.99 timer never see's any load at all. It's the relay that see's the load of the lights.

Many ways to hook it up.

[rooted]

hey guys

been busy lately but things are settling down now, for a week or two at least

penguin first i have to thank you again for all the help you gave me setting up that sub, wouldn't have done it as confiidently, if at all, without your guidance



for the most part it went smoothly, i managed to zap myself on a hot relay, but nothing has melted, sparked, or blown up yet...........

....but......now i'm having timer issues.......

here's a quick rundown of the setup/problem

each relay is triggered by it's own in-wall 120v timer
each relay is inside it's own 6x6x4" box with small ground bar
each timer has it's own 15a breaker in the sub
each relay has it's own DP 15a breaker in the sub
(2) 1k lights per relay

^nothing new just retyping so you dont have to go back looking at my other posts


each timer is wired as specified in instructions:
one hot goes from 15a breaker to timer
a seperate hot goes from timer to relay coil
neutral from sub, and timer neutral, join at the relay
ground terminates at ground bar

ballasts light just fine, as far as i can tell the 240 circuits are solid, and the problem lies within the timers

i have a 120v GFCI outlet for my exhaust fan, and it hasn't given me any problems, nor has the interruptor reset on that outlet for any reason (20a)

i'm stumped

the timers are resetting, and i just can't figure out why, it's driving me nuts

the breakers aren't tripping, but the timers are resetting instantly when the relay is triggered

but when i trigger them manually, they light up just fine...

on the first day, timer A/relay A fired properly, then 5 minutes later when timer B fired, it reset timer A and turned off that relay, however timer B/relay B stayed lit just fine!

then i reversed order and tried timer B first....this actually lit timer B, as well as timer A, and also froze timer A, while lighting relay A.....wtf!!!?!?!?

to further confusion, i re-wired so both relays would trigger from one timer (assuming that the two timers were fucking each other up somehow)
this caused the one timer to reset as soon as it triggered both relays, shutting them off instantly

sorry for the long winded post (to anyone + everyone that reads it ), i can't imagine how annoying it must be to even jump into this shitstorm...but i'm about to scrap the bottom end of this and either:
a) wire the outlets right to the breakers, and kick out $$ for 240 outlet timers, or
b) throw a 30a timer in between the sub and those outlets....

i have to bring this to a conclusion that i feel is safe, getting ridiculous now i've been tinkering with this for weeks now

or

c) i wired these timers wrong and i'm a complete nut

so....in advance, thanks, sorry, either way



PS i can throw up pics and photoshop label the wires if needed, or draw out a wire diagram (it will be a shitty amateur one haha)

[mr-natural78]

Just in case anyone is interested. Home Depot has the intermatic timers on sale. It's the cheapest I could find them. I got mine, the T101R, which is 120v single pole single throw with a raintight outdoor case for $35 bucks. They were sold out of the T101 at my home depot, but it was like $20 bucks. It is also 120v single pole single throw but the case isn't raintight. They also had the T103 and T103R as well. Both those are double pole single throw. They were like $30 bucks as well.

[madpenguin]

Originally Posted by mr-natural78

Just in case anyone is interested. Home Depot has the intermatic timers on sale. It's the cheapest I could find them. I got mine, the T101R, which is 120v single pole single throw with a raintight outdoor case for $35 bucks. They were sold out of the T101 at my home depot, but it was like $20 bucks. It is also 120v single pole single throw but the case isn't raintight. They also had the T103 and T103R as well. Both those are double pole single throw. They were like $30 bucks as well.

Yea, I really need to start hitting Home Depot. The only reason I go to Lowes is because it's pretty much right around the corner. HD usually tends to sell stuff for much cheaper. Good lookin' out.

[madpenguin]

Originally Posted by rooted

PS i can throw up pics and photoshop label the wires if needed, or draw out a wire diagram (it will be a shitty amateur one haha)

Yea, sounds like you've mis-wired something. Can't say for sure until I see some high res pics. That's a crux with trouble shooting electricity... You really need to be there in order to figure out whats going on most of the time.

I could speculate, but without pictures of everything, I could speculate for a few pages until we found the problem.

I'm not sure what type of timers you are using to boot. The el' cheapo 120v ones that are re-branded like I was talking about above?

[rooted]

timers i used:
https://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

shitstorm hitting the shitfan, plants are stressing, this is very frustrating......

last night the lights came on just fine!, for whatever reason the timers didn't reset...wtf...but this morning, woke up to lights on/fans off. the timers now refuse to "un-trigger" the relays at their programmed "off time", even though the clock times are still correct and programmed times still in place.



i will get pics this evening

i'm going to have a room full of hermies if this isn't resolved tonight, so for now i will be rewiring the lights to a mechanical timer (40a) that's fed from a DP30a breaker in the sub, $$$ down the drain


will post ASAP with pics/diagram

[madpenguin]

Yea, I'm getting ready for the family xmas eve shin dig so won't be around til later tonite. Xmas with the girlie tomorrow too. I'll try to help asap.

Never used those wall timers. I want to say your problem lies with those. Especially since they are made by GE...