1st Grow-Cab, help / ideas needed

hello,

this is my first post here, i need some advice, but i won't ask for anything until i introduced myself a little.
I chose this community here (icmag), because it is very active, there are a lot of knowledgeable people around, and the level of professionalism is awesome.

I need to have some questions answered. I am new to the whole growing business. I had one small but successful and truly rewarding harvest last year in 08, but things weren't going so well for me and i had to stop. I knew this was going to be a passion of mine soon, but i never thought about it as supplying myself with my own medicine. I barely put any effort at all in my first grow, but surprisingly i ended up with somewhat nice buds.

Anyway, here is what i am attempting to do. I need your input, let me know if this sounds feasible at all. Sometimes i get crazy ideas that seem to work out sooo well in my head, and if i want to actually follow through with it, it seems like a disaster (that has something to do with the fact that i am a pain-management patient and constantly high i don't enjoy it)

Okay, here is the plan!

I am planing on constructing a Cab in my Crawlspace, 2x3x5ft, and powering that with 280w of 3000k CFL twist type of bulbs. Now, it is damn cold in there at night (40 - 60 F) but during the day it's room-temperature. I plan on running my lights (the 12/12 cycle) at night if it gets too cold in there. I will install some simple ventilation (a fan/hose type of attachment that removes air from the cab), and use no filtering, since smell is not a concern.
I might be able to afford some cheap CFL's to hang outside the room, just to keep one or two mothers alive. hell, i might even put those in my apartment. But for now, one room.

Now...i know for sure that i can grow something in there. But...
I plan on germinating aprox. 16 unknown seeds, and raising them in little 300ml plastic cups until they have 2 - 3 sets of leaves and are more than 14 days old (18/6 light used here).
I want to flip the switch to 12/12, weed out the males, and only keep the strongest, sturdiest healthiest females (maybe even more than 6, after seeing that some people grow 9 plants using only 1sq.ft. and fluorescent) . I plan on transplanting them into bigger pots and then continue to flower them, keep them as short as possible. i want to end up with one large cola in the middle, and as few side branches as possible.
Does anybody know if it is a bad thing to transplant your plants after you switched them to 12/12 and they are starting to show sex?

The main thing i am concerned about is Soil and Nutrients. I am a fairly inexperienced Cannabis Chemist, meaning i know a lot about the plants, but i don't actually know about the whole fertilizer shebang. I plan on keeping this as plain and simple as possible. I will use standard soil made for planter growing, mix in vermiculite (apparently retains watter better than perlite) and maybe some worm-castings i can buy at home & hardware. As far as fertilizers go, i will use plain old dry-powdered fertilizer that needs to be mixed with water. I got some 30-10-10 for Veg (apparently it's the "non acidic" kind, there was one other kind for Firs and Evergreen shrubs), 10-25-10 for flowering and some narrow range pH strips (5.5 - 7.5).

Does anybody see any mistakes here, or other things i should avoid? Any tips and suggestions?
General thoughts about this, ideas to improve etc. Are greatly appreciated. The cab will be constructed within the next few days, i will start to post pics as soon as this thing starts to roll.


Thank you all so much

It's good that you have a plan, you're already ahead of many first time growers.

"Does anybody know if it is a bad thing to transplant your plants after you switched them to 12/12 and they are starting to show sex?"
You should transplant before or soon after flowering begins. I transplanted about three weeks into 12/12 and the roots barely grew into the new medium.

"The main thing i am concerned about is Soil and Nutrients."
For beginners, the easiest way to grow IMO is to use a hydro medium and a proven feed regimen for cannabis, i.e. the lucas formula.

You don't need 5 ft to grow with florecents. Florecents don't penitrate like HIDs. Put a shelf in the middle and flower on one shelf and keep mothers and clones on the other.To utilize the space in your cab you probably will need about 9 plants per square ft. If you want fewer plant veg longer and train for multi cola plants.Your yeild will be about the same.You will still need some ventilation. Plants need fresh air and when your lights are on, heat will still be a problem. 50 watts per sq. ft. is the recomended minnimum for flowering. For veg you will need about half that much. I hope I helped you out some and good luck with your grow.

Cozy Amnesia said:

It's good that you have a plan, you're already ahead of many first time growers.

"Does anybody know if it is a bad thing to transplant your plants after you switched them to 12/12 and they are starting to show sex?"
You should transplant before or soon after flowering begins. I transplanted about three weeks into 12/12 and the roots barely grew into the new medium.

"The main thing i am concerned about is Soil and Nutrients."
For beginners, the easiest way to grow IMO is to use a hydro medium and a proven feed regimen for cannabis, i.e. the lucas formula.

Click to expand...

Well, i would not say i am a "beginner" per se. I have had my first sucessfull harvest in 08, and oh my gosh... the hours i spend lurking around watching it how other people do it. I have a solid knowledge in Chemistry.

The thing that scares me about fertilizers is that i have no idea on how to use them. Like, if anybody tells me that my plant needs more Potassium during flowering, i know what i need to do. I guess i am just anxious to get started and a bit antsy too. The more experience i get the more i should know what my plants need.
I will probably just go buy some 5-0-0, 0-5-0 and 0-0-5 and dose accordingly. If in doubt, i can always come to this great community here and get some more information. This is like a wealth of knowledge to me.
For all i know, during this grow i might get bored waiting for the results ( for sure i will ) and build myself a hydro system for my cab.

About the transplanting thing... Plants are in 355ml cups in container mix, on day 8, are about 9 inches tall (stretchy, i know), started to grow their 3rd real pair of leaves. I recon i cal leave them in there for a bit longer, but as of now, they will def. be transplanted BEFORE the flowering switch ( i might even give em some time to get used to the new pots ).

tube dude said:

You don't need 5 ft to grow with florecents. Florecents don't penitrate like HIDs. Put a shelf in the middle and flower on one shelf and keep mothers and clones on the other.To utilize the space in your cab you probably will need about 9 plants per square ft. If you want fewer plant veg longer and train for multi cola plants.Your yeild will be about the same.You will still need some ventilation. Plants need fresh air and when your lights are on, heat will still be a problem. 50 watts per sq. ft. is the recomended minnimum for flowering. For veg you will need about half that much. I hope I helped you out some and good luck with your grow.

Click to expand...

I have a 2x3ft cab, and i am capable of mounting 8 flourescent bulbs in there. The biggest size i can buy around here are 40w CFL's that put out 2600 lumen each. That brings me to 50w/sqft.
Originally, i was going to make the cab 7ft high. I never intended to use that space though. I wanted to keep my plants as short as possible. The reason for the lots of space is that the heat from the CFL's has room to flow.
Well, actually, let me explain using a quickly drawn diagram!



Of course there is a fan somewhere too, but using this setup the temps do not exceed 80F. I already did a dry-test run with lamps only and no fan, the temp was inbetween 65 -85 F. With a fan amplifying the natural chimney effect it shouldn't be a huge problem.

I will set up a veg-room later this month, in my appartment-closet. Then i will grow some name strains. This is basically just a test drive with a bunch of bagseeds.



Also, here are some pictures to improve my credibility and to keep this as complete as possible. Right now i only have my cellphone camera, but hey.... The plants are in the corner of my room under flourescents right now, as i just painted their cab. Construction is comming along nicely, i will install the lights tomorrow and then i will be able to post pictures of the final construction. I promisse this is not some ghetto-rigged grow, this will be something nice and neat in the end .

That's all of em, quite stretchy i know. That is due to the fact that they have no real home and are moved around a lot right now. They are literally sitting underneath a cabinet in the living room with the lights ghetto-rigged over them. Tomorrow, they will go inside the cab, re-potted and leaft in peace.




That's one of them, they show normal development and the stem grew much sturdier in the last day. They can now support themselves.


Anyway, thanks for dropping in.

Cozy Amnesia said:

"The main thing i am concerned about is Soil and Nutrients."
For beginners, the easiest way to grow IMO is to use a hydro medium and a proven feed regimen for cannabis, i.e. the lucas formula.

Click to expand...

Let me come back to that for a second!
i found a beautifull link explaining the lucas formula, but i am still a bit confused as to what i am actually doing here.

I am essentially using an inert medium, like... rockwool or hydroton, and then i handwater it every day with this specialized formula that i mix using GH Hydro Nutes?

well... why not go full scale hydro then? If i am buying expensive nutrients, require a pH and EC meter, i might as well just go for the real automated thing? I am fully capable of building something like that, i just lack the time and the funding to buy all the equiptment needed.

or... is it possible that i do not need an EC and pH meter? I mean... everything is pre-measured and i have a 5 stage reverse osmosis system anyway... Do i just mix 'n go? What happens to the runoff water? Do i recycle that?

I tried doing a board search on "lucas formula" but could find nothing else but other users talking about how great it is

You can always grow organic I haven't checked ph in years and ec meters don't even work with organics. It is definately the cheapest way to grow.Check out the stickys in the organic soil forum.

sorry man, i meant to come back to you yesterday, but when i checked out the stickys in the forum you suggested i got so carried away soaking up all the new information.
I NEVER heard about organic cannabis growing before. This sounds like a viable alternative, considering i am growing lots of plants in small space, and it would essentially eliminate the need for all fertilizers. Just plain water and a tea here and then, and voila. No pH troubles either. I am deff glad i found this.
I already am growing sort of organing i suppose...

The soil i will be using will be 50 parts Container Grower Mix, 40 Parts Fish Sea Soil and 10 Parts Perlite as the Sea soil is incredibly thick and rich.

The Sea Soil is amazing stuff from what i hear. It says on the bag that plants grown in the Sea Soil don't need any additional fertilizers. There were two kinds, one for Flowers and one for crops (vegetables, herbs etc) and i got the one for Vegetables and herbs.

I will stash away my fertilizers for a while, i think i will not need them.
However... i acquired the whole GH Nute series (Bloom, Grow and micro), there should be nothing wrong with mixing that stuff and feeding it to the plants, will there? I bought it because i want to do a hydro-test run. I plan on putting one plant in there that is grown in an ebb-flow type hydro system. Something very simple i recon, but hey, i just want some comparison as to how much better hydro would perform in these conditions.

I wanted to continue constructing my cab today, when i realized some essential things.
My cab needs good ventilation. So i went to Rona and bought a fan. It's essentially a ceiling mount bathroom fan that attaches to a tube. I paid 20$ for it. I want to mount it at the top of the box, drawing in cool air from the bottom through some vents i yet have to make, and blowing out hot air at the top. My box has 30cubic foot, the fan pulls 50cf/m, so the air is exchanged 1.6 times each minute. Does anybody think that's too much? there will be cold air drawn into the box at the same rate.


Anyway, thanks for reading, comments are appreciated!

I hope the organic thing works out for you. Dont forget to add dolimite lime to your soil mix at 2 tbs per gallon. Some places call it garden lime and some places call it agricultual lime. It's all the same thing. That is the key to not having to test for ph. I've been growing organicaly for years and have no regrets. I grow bushes and my cab is just a little larger than yours. I also use t-8 tubes instead of cfl.Here are a few pictures to show you what organics and florecents does for me.

Sounds like everyone covered things pretty well .
Just i thing (witch i might have missed someone say )
crawlspaces are great for security
The only problem can be that crawlspaces can have some pretty high humidity.
even with a dehumidifier it stayed kinda high.
So just keep a close eye it.

I N Hail

hey tube dude,
Seeing those great results makes me anxious to get mine on the tracks. I can only keep my plants in little 300ml pots only for so long. I am just curious, what kind of yields are you getting with your cab? What would you say would you be able to produce with something like my setup?

I had a nervous moment today. Everything depends on the fan, this is the crucial point in my grow.
I was able to buy a dimmer made for ceiling fans and rig it to my standard bathroom-wall fan. I can control speed, airflow and noise perfectly now. And with that in place, i can now precisely control the temp in the cab. The more air i suck in the cooler the insides are going to be. The crawlspace is rather cold, and with the fan running on full speed the temps dropped below 50F (with lights and fan on at night). Without the fan, they were in the 90's. I can now "dial" the temperature

I also finaly build a smart lighting system. Here's a diagram on how i mounted the lamps.



it's basically like an extension cord running down a 2x4 with two plug-base addaptors that have one Y connector each. That is stuck in a hole i carved at the base of the 2x4 and secured with zip-ties.
It will be stuck through the ceiling of my box, allowing me easy adjustment, because all i have to do i use a clamp to prevent the lamps from sliding into the box. This is awesome

Hey rave,

I'm probablly not the best person to ask about yeilds. I grow perpetually. All my plants are a different age. I don't have any kind of feeding or watering schedual. I don't keep track of when I put a plant into bloom or when a clone starts showing roots. I just let the plants tell me what they need. When a plant is ready for harvest I pull it out of my flower cab and put a new one in its place. If I had to guess I would say I probably pull about 3-4 oz per month. My cab is 2'x4' .
Have you thougt about reflectors for your lights? Walls need to reflect light also. Florecents don't penitrate very well and you need to use as much of the light as possible.

Hey Tube Dude,
well... The way you describe your grow style, it sounds like my very first grow in my walk-in closet Essentially lights in a closet and a fan. 3 - 4 OZ per month sounds like way more than i need. I was aiming for an OZ per month, so about 3 - 4 Oz per harvest would be nice.
I am planning on running it similar like you do. My flowering cab will either have a SCROG or be a SOG, i don't know yet. Can't wait to throw the first plants in there and experiment. Is a SCROG suitable for a perpetual growth? I was under the impression that that doesn't work out too well.
I have 9 plants that will go in as soon as it's ready (outdoor bagseed), and i also planted 3 more bagseed in my "Clone cab", witch is just a section of my closet with some cfl's. I plan on taking clones from them and getting a perpetual grow started.

Reflectors.... yeah, i know i need one. I just have't figured out what to do yet. I have a 3x2 sheet of thin white reflective metal sheet flying around the crawlspace, i might just bend/cut that into shape. My walls are painted flat white. Or, i just take another piece of wood, paint that white, and put it in just above the lamps, raising the reflector/lamps as the plants grow.

Here is a pic of the fan i tailored.
Don't be scared by the painters tape, there are real electrical connectors underneath there The tape just holds it together so it doesn't slip out by accident.



and here is one of the plants. I will repot them tomorrow!

rave420 said:

Hey Tube Dude,
well... The way you describe your grow style, it sounds like my very first grow in my walk-in closet Essentially lights in a closet and a fan. 3 - 4 OZ per month sounds like way more than i need. I was aiming for an OZ per month, so about 3 - 4 Oz per harvest would be nice.
I am planning on running it similar like you do. My flowering cab will either have a SCROG or be a SOG, i don't know yet. Can't wait to throw the first plants in there and experiment. Is a SCROG suitable for a perpetual growth? I was under the impression that that doesn't work out too well.
I have 9 plants that will go in as soon as it's ready (outdoor bagseed), and i also planted 3 more bagseed in my "Clone cab", witch is just a section of my closet with some cfl's. I plan on taking clones from them and getting a perpetual grow started.

Reflectors.... yeah, i know i need one. I just have't figured out what to do yet. I have a 3x2 sheet of thin white reflective metal sheet flying around the crawlspace, i might just bend/cut that into shape. My walls are painted flat white. Or, i just take another piece of wood, paint that white, and put it in just above the lamps, raising the reflector/lamps as the plants grow.

Here is a pic of the fan i tailored.
Don't be scared by the painters tape, there are real electrical connectors underneath there The tape just holds it together so it doesn't slip out by accident.

and here is one of the plants. I will repot them tomorrow!

Click to expand...

I'm using a fan almost exactly like that to cool 220w of PL-L CFL lamps Sweet!

I'll have to work a bit on the noise though. Even with the odor scrubber it's a tad noisy for me. It also needs to run at maximum as I don't have the advantage of super cold air like you do

Looking great!

Hydro-Soil said:

I'm using a fan almost exactly like that to cool 220w of PL-L CFL lamps Sweet!

I'll have to work a bit on the noise though. Even with the odor scrubber it's a tad noisy for me. It also needs to run at maximum as I don't have the advantage of super cold air like you do

Looking great!

Click to expand...

I found out that the harder the fan has to work the more noisy it gets. When the air can flow unobstructed, the fan almost whispers, minus the motor sound. If i put my hand in front of it, it sounds like a hairdryer.

Good to hear that there are successful people out there that use similar setups. What temps do you maintain in your cab? I have yet to find the optimal range. Somewhere i read 60 - 70, somewhere else i read 72 - 85 and somewhere else again i find 50 -90. Someone enlighten me, what is the correct, optimal temp for cannabis growth?

About the repotting i wanted to do today... I am a numbnut, lol. I went to the hardware store, and saw some pots in the clearance section. 20 pots for 2$, i thought awesome deal. I come home and find out they are just oh so slightly bigger than the containers they are in right now. So i can forget about that. Well... next time i start seeds i have proper pots i guess lol.
I also got myself a cloning greenhouse from the dolla store for 1$ It's perfect for rooting clones, because it comes with a humidity dome. I also got some garden-zipties and chicken wire to make a screen with. The screen-fence sold at the harware store only comes in huuuuge rolls with 30 yards each, and costs 90$. Too much for me, so i have to make my own screen, wich shouldn't be a problem i think. I will do that today, instead of the repotting.

i almost think that building stuff and all the other handyman-requirements that come with growing cannabis are more fun than smoking it. Seriously, i could just grow weed and never smoke it, and still be happy and contempt with that. It's just so damn satisfying

You'd be "happy and contempt"? I get what your saying but I'm still laughing my ass off! It is really fun to grow and I'm just a rookie myself but these science projects are the bomb!

Yes you can do a perpetual scrog. You will just need to make individual screens for each plant and attach them to your containers. A metal coat hanger bent into a square makes a nice frame for your screen and they come out just a litlle under 1 square ft. I used to grow this way all the time but i got lazy and tired of messing with the screens all the time. Now I mostly just break the branches to where I want them to go. Sometimes I have to tie a branch down for a while but not often. When flowering with florecents it doesn't mater how mant plants you have or how you train them. Just keep your cab full, your canopy level, and trim off anything that doesn't get any light.

note to myself: In future, do not plant seeds unless you're 100% ready!

It seems like building the darn cab is taking me longer than expected, and i would like to flower the plants by now. damn... Oh well. I repotted all of them in their final pots, threw one more light in my clone room and dumped everything in there. Now the plants can vegetate, and by the time the cab is ready, there will be an army of clones

Here's a pic of what my "new" temporary home looks like. This is better than in the middle of the room for sure. It has continuous airflow and temps around 73F.

But maaaaan this seriously cramps my style. My first grow looked much like it, and the more i think about it the more happy i am i didn't electrocute myself or set the house on fire Oh well, i made sure electrical conections are not overloaded, everything is safe so if something happens, the worst that can happen is that the plants take damage. Also, there is no moisture except in the pots, and i water and drain the plants OUTSIDE the room. At last, this will only be for another week or two.


someone smack me for doing something so highly irresponsible, but the plants needed a home

lol all those cords right there seem safe, jk bro, lookin good.

Yeah nothing ever goes like we want it to. I can almost bet that after you get it up and running you'll have to change something. Power strips are cheap and alot neater than drop cords (joke). Sereously, everything looks good. Did you drecide to go organic with your soil?

tube dude said:

Yeah nothing ever goes like we want it to. I can almost bet that after you get it up and running you'll have to change something. Power strips are cheap and alot neater than drop cords (joke). Sereously, everything looks good. Did you drecide to go organic with your soil?

Click to expand...

Hey tube dude,

as i mentioned, this is NOT my final setup I plan on keeping the plants in a vegetative state in there untill i can take clones and put those in the cab i am building now. This buys me some time. After taking the clones i will flower the moms to decide sex / harvest, keep all the female clones and use them as my mother-plants.


I am growing in SeaSoil mixed with perlite, and both products carry the certified organic label on there. So yeah, i suppose i am growing organic . The plants really seem to love the seasoil, they are perking up and growing a bunch of side-shoots (soon to be clones mwahahah)

Edit: Also, i changed my cab-idea completley, it has a 3.5 square feet screen of green in there, and i got 8x40w to illuminate that area. talk about perfect