[Kodiak]

I wrote up a guide on topping, training and pruning called:

A complete guide to topping, training and pruning

I will also include a link to this text in the main guide.

I hope that you will find it helpful

[JQP]

I finally read through this whole thing today Kodiak, and it is excellent. I just built a grow closet within the last month, and was so excited about growing pot again after being out of it for a couple decades. The amount of info on the net is amazing to me, as an old fart that went to college back in the slide rule days.

Probably this weekend I will swap out my 150W HPS for a 175W MH, and at the same time get a timer in there and take it off 24 hour and go to 20/4. I've got two 175W MH and 4 150W HPS, just not all ready to go in. I've been "adapting" them from some used parking garage lights I found on craiglsist for 10 bucks apiece. My idea was originally going to do CFL, but then this deal came up on craigslist, so I figured what the heck.

I have some problems with my first seedlings, which resulted from the few bag seeds I had around. I have since got some more bag seed from an outdoor grow of a buddy's from last year that I will try and start some this weekend and see if I can get something better going. I jsut posted some pics over on the 150HPS forum if you had a bit of time to look. They're the last post right now... https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=20729&page=323

Your little ditty here got me thinking about a lot of things, and I truly appreciate the advice. One of these days I'll save up some cash and head up to Ontario and get some "real" store bought seed!

JQ

[Kodiak]

Thanks for the input JQP and welcome back to ganja farming :smile:

I had a look at your plants and they don't look as bad as you probably think. It's hard to tell as I can't see the colour of the leafs because the light from the HPS turns everything yellow. If you feel that they are stunted or start to look dwarfed, I have a few suggestions.

Repot them into larger pots and add some larger pebbles to the soil so that the roots can spread more easily. The reason why I am suggesting repotting is because I have found that jiffy pots are bad for several reasons, one being that they invite mold. Secondly, once you have repotted them, flush them really well once by showering them for a minute or two. Then give them a weak/medium strong nutrient solution later that day or the next and wait. I'm betting that they will start to pick up after that, especially when you bring in the metal halides.

In my experience those soil ph meters are not that good, I stuck mine in a lemon and it still read 7, go figure. Yours look a bit more advanced so it might be a better one. I recommend that you get a ph drop test kit or litmus paper so that you can measure the ph of you tapwater just so you know. Then when you add the nutrients you'll need some ph+ and ph- in order to adjust the solution closer to 6 or 7. The easier alternative is that you place some fertilizer in the soil while you are repotting, then all you have to add is water for up to 4 to 6 weeks.

I also use 20/4 for seedling as I like to give the plants but especially my equipment time to rest now and then. Then I gradually drop the daylight hours to 12/12, usually stopping at 18/6 and 15/9 as this reduces the stretch somewhat. I also keep the MH going for about 10 days into flowering as it also helps to reduce the stretch.

When it comes to seeds I can recommend getting some from a reputable seed bank. The seeds are easy enough to order online and you can get a pack of good seeds for 15 bucks so they are not necessarily that expensive. Take all the Nirvana strains for example, I have grown a whole bunch of them and I liked every single plant that spouted from those seeds. White Label also have some good and inexpensive seeds like Double Gum and White Skunk/Bud Bunnie (White Widow x Super Skunk), now how could you go wrong with that mix

These are only a few but you will find that Dutch Passion, Sensi Seeds, Nirvana, Mandala, The Flying Dutchmen and many more seeds banks carry inexpensive but extremely nice strains. It's worth the effort to invest in some proven genetics unless you are sure that the seeds you get from friends are something special. Personally I also like to know what I am growing so that is why I do not grow mixed seeds at all.

I hope that was of some help

[JQP]

That's a big help Kodiak, thanks. Just getting this grow room built was a major accomplishment. Years ago there was no internet, and we just sort of figured stuff out. That was always with 4' tubes though.

I know I'm impatient, but I'll get this sorted out, in great measure due to assistance I have gotten from folks like you. I'm a fast learner. And I have a dedicated space now. Never had anything like this before!

I am a bit hesitant to order seeds over the net. Or should I say paranoid? I figured if I could get some of this bag weed to grow, that would do till I could get up to Canada and bring some seed back. I can probably get to Canada this summer. I'm real broke till after 4/15.

Thanks again. Enjoy yer evening.

JQ

[JQP]

Top of the morning to you Kodiak!

I pulled my little aluminum baking tray out this a.m. (didn't even crumple it!) and took some pics of the plants under a white cfl. This is Day 18 from germination.

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I know you are not a fan of bag seed, but I separated about 50 seeds from a bag of pot this a.m. This grow I have now started with only 9 seeds of which these pics here are the 4 that germinated. Until I can get up to Canada and get some store bought stuff, this is the best I can do.

I am somewhat philosophic about it, as I am really not a connoisseur. I figure if I could just get one good female and clone it, at least I wouldn't have to hassle buying pot all the time. That is my goal, just having a personal stash.

Sometime between now and Saturday I need to find some 10 liter or 3 gallon pots, and follow your previous pointers.

Thanks again,

JQ

[Kodiak]

Try to get the metal halides over the plants as soon as possible as they look like they need it. You should give those plants plenty of fresh water as soon as possible in order to flush out any problems in the soil and then start from scratch by adding a weakish nutrient solution. They seem to be suffering from several different problems. What have you been feeding them?

Don't get me wrong, the holy grail of plants can also be found in a stash of bag seeds. I just prefer to know the complete lineage of each plant and I have spent countless hours researching strains. Sort of a hobby that comes with the trade.

I always send in cash when I'm ordering seeds, that way I don't leave any paper trail. It has worked well for me so far.

It's highly possible that you will find a good plant among the seeds that you have since you have so many to chose from. If you can fit more plants into your grow room, you could consider starting 20 or even 30 seeds. Assume that half of the plants will be male and that 50% of the females will be superior to the other half. That would leave you with 7-8 good females to chose from.

When it comes to pots, plastic buckets are fairly inexpensive and serve well as plant containers. For now, shower the plants with lots of water and then give them the weakish nutrient solution. I think that your best bet would be to mix nutrients into the soil when repotting. I always do that because then the plants will have something to fall back on. Chemical fertilizers are a bit strong and I prefer to keep my grow organic but both methods will work just fine.

Hopefully your plants will start to pick up soon :smile:

[JQP]

Thanks Kodiak,

I've got two MH's but can only find one right now. ;>}) I'll find it.

In the meantime, I have only one reflector, but I'll try swapping it out tonight for the one MH I know where it is. It is really all set up, just the bulb mounts different in the reflector, so I need to drill a few new holes. No biggie, I'm good at that!

Soon as I find the other one, I'll get it set up. I scavenged these lights out of a parking garage, so they need a bit of work to get ready. Plus when I get paid Friday I have to get another cheap mailbox, convert it to a reflector for my other MH.

I've been giving them fresh water, but am concerned about over-watering. I water by weight, and they seem to have plenty of water, but maybe not where the roots are?

We live in the country and have well water. The water I use for the plants comes from our HERO system, a sophisticated filtering system under out kitchen sink that we use only for drinking and cooking. It's highly filtered stuff, but I do not know the ph. I need to get some strips somewhere if I can find them. I was a science major back in the early 70's and know how to use them!

I was feeding the plants liquid Miracle Grow, first watering 25%, second watering 50%, third watering 75%, then 100% according to the directions on the fertilizer squeezer bottle. Then I dropped back to water for two waterings, then 15%, then back to plain water.

If I start all over again, how about a tip as to what sort of soil you use and what kind of fertilizer do you mix in, and at what ratios? That would be very helpful.

My grow room is about 32" X 50" X 85" (81 cm X 127 cm X 216 cm), so I have plenty of room for a bunch of seedlings. If I start the 45 I picked out this a.m., space shouldn't be a problem for a while. I have a couple dual bulb 4' floros with daylight bulbs (6500 lumens) and could use those of the MH (long as I find the other one). I was thinking maybe to do 2 MH and 1 HPS for veg, then 2 HPS and 1 MH for flowering. We'll see. That means I need two mailboxes.

I haven't looked at them since I got home. figured I'd see what you had to say first, then go down, see how they're doing.

Thanks again for the help Kodiak, we're getting there. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Have a great evening!

JQ

[charlesweedmore]

dude that topic is great !

[JQP]

Got a 175W MH light up just now. We'll see how it goes. If nothing else, pics will come out better! ;>})

More to come.

JQ

[Kodiak]

Thanks charlesweedmore, I'm glad that people are finding the guide useful.

JPQ, let the soil dry out completely for now and then repot. what I can tell from that last picture is that they are probably suffering from over watering and possibly ph fluctuations from the saturated soil as well as nutrient deficiencies or lock-outs.

The 2 MH and 1 HPS for veg, then 2 HPS and 1 MH for flowering seems like a winning formula to me Plants actually prefer a little bit of light from the other spectrum when they are in vegetative growth and flowering respectively.

When I make my soil mix, I mix guano, blood meal, ash of birch, mineral sand and naturally the vulcaponic and clay pebbles so that the soil does not pack into mud when I'm watering. It's important that the roots can spread easily throughout the pot. This mix lasts them for as long as I veg them, which is usually 2-3 months, then I start adding liquid nutrients from BioBizz and BioNova when they go into flowering. I can't give you an exact ratio for the mix as I just measure by hand and add what I think is good. Strong but not too strong.

Since you live in the country I bet that you could get your hands on some compost, just about the best thing that you can give to your plants. Compost usually contain beneficial micro-organism as well as mycorrhiza and all the nutrients that plants need. That would make for an excellent organic grow.

Get them into bigger pots and start over from scratch. All of this will even out when you repot them and add the nutrient mix. Keep in mind though that smaller plants burn more easily so add nutrients wisely.

Let's hope that they pick up

If you have any more problems with your plants I suggest that you start a thread in the infirmary as there you will get a definite solution to your problem.