[swampdank]

Now that I think about it, my keeper is always taken at around 50-55 days. I always mean to take it at 9 weeks but she insists on an earlier date. I never mentioned this as I though it might start a "it could go a little longer imo" discussion. But dammitt if she aint ready for us early. She is waaaay strong at this point. Hell, I have taken her at just over 30 days before and she still kicked ass.


Edit: I also wait for the plant to mature before "flipping" Usually she is sporting a lone calyx at the leaf node before she is ready to go. I am still working with light schedules but for now. I think outdoors will bring the best results.

[FOE20]

Im going to start with with a Quote from VicHigh posted by Chimera...
Notice the Last 4 words in his sentence....this was in 1999..

Posted by Vic High on December 02, 1999 at 21:13:41 ET:
In Reply to: Vic's got the answer posted by Chimera on December 02, 1999 at 11:32:01 ET:
If you can trace your blueberry to the first batch
offered by Sag, you will get one phenotype, a real bitch to grow.

hey Purcell not to throw a monkey wrench into that scenario but F-13 and Flo to me are Stabilized Indica dom Hybrids..Meaning they Will Dominate as a F-13 or Flo always does and usually Ind dom in most aspects...
Meaning that Blue Phenos within F-13 and Flo will be even less frequent than other hybrids from the Original BBerry Lines..Even DJ said that he didnt have part of the Selection of Flow(Flo) rel by Sagarmatha in early releases..So later I'll bet he used his own pre-worked Flo genetics to continue to work Flo...and later F-13, BVel and BSatv1 with Steve...


You'll all notice he didnt rel TrueBBerry untill Later in the releases but its been avail at quite a few Seed vendors for a while now...Now TrueBBerry is a Indica Dominant Berry pheno type to me..Not Sativa and yes it can be grown and finish under 9wks as many plants can be..But thats not what were doing here as if thats the case than How on Gods earth can a Sativa Dom hybrid finish only a Week later than its Polar Indica sibling...
Cause its not possible...
For the most part Im speaking of the Rare Occurrence of the Sativa Dom Blue Lines when talking on these topics...
Im not a indica or Indica Dom fan by any means...

Thais - Ive only run a few Thais myself in my own digs but seen plenty OD and done by others and what Ive seen runs 12 to over 22wks as DJ documents in his earlier work..Even the Early rel of sssc or DF or Sensi's Thias were first said to be anywhere from 12 to 16-18wks in the Seed catalogs but note.....
These were the original JuicyFruit Thais,,,...Not the Faster DF Lemon based Thais which to me sound quite different than the JFT(Highland)....
All of a sudden in the mid-late 90's these Thai's now had a 9-12wk flower Time?...Why is that exactly?...I'd say for the simple reason of competition..
I never bought or saw a seed grown from a Seed Co until the early 90's..
The folks I was involved with prior had already acquired strains at this time thru travels and other means which were New name sakes then with ak47, WhtRhino, Widow, BigBud, Skunks or SuperSkunk or Chronic types...
My bro's went to A-dam in the late 90's and scored seed of BBerry genetics that were still being bred underground at that time even tho there was already a BBerry line avail at Seed Co's..
The FOEBerry I keep is a Afghan x BBerry hybrid from pre-2000 that was made in Amster and never released..We bought the seed and it only has my partial nick cause Ive held the pheno for so long now..But I use this and my past to define the present..
...I really hope this makes sense and is not a slam on DJ or the way he went about his business..
Im in no way judging the Quality of the Genetics he's put a stamp on in the history of all this and only question the way it was documented..
Even with plenty of time its very hard to properly document the amount of possible factors when analyzing a Single Line..Let along a well hybridized large pool of Poly-Hybrids..But he did this and then took it to new levels which in the history only a few of these cats ever did to this extent or Quality...Heres DJ's breeds Ive run and what Ive found and yes I agree with you guys on the Indica lines but their in very few ways Sativa Dom
TBBerry - Ive run only in hyb with KryptoBerries(Dab x TBB) although Ive seen others run it and have sampled finished products..TBB is def a Indica Dom BBerry and runs anywhere from 7-10wks..
orig BBerry(Sativa) - Is super Sativa Dom...Looks nothing like what most of Todays BBerry looks like..Period..It was released as a "Real Bitch to Grow"......These can run Indo/Out anywhere from 10-16wks IMO...
BMonshine - Mixed Ind dom runs 9-11wlks on avr in any BMoonline..
BlueSatellite v1.0 - Mixed Sativa Dom runs 9-12wks as the Afghan(R/Y) has a Heavy Influence..
HoneyBee - not hard to grow but similar to F-13 with Blue traits..Blue phenos ran 8-10wks - Flo phenos were 7-9wks..
F-13 - easy as a Daisy to grow...7-9wks

Next I plan a full out side by side grow of a massive selection of DJ's and BBerry genetics to show the points Ive been trying to confirm for many yrs now..Ive confirmed them with my own environments and now just would love if any others would open their minds to the concepts and try running these at different flower times..It will in No way Change the Genetic make up of the Original breeds were working with cause they have already been manipulated and worked very well by as we all say a "Master breeder"..
Next after I move in March on deck is a line up Ive waited my whole life to run..Hopefully this will all get going and run smoothly to help prove the points Ive already confirmed thru my own work..It was going to be the "Attack of the Killer BB'zzz" but I didn't get the Heirloom cut yet nor have some of the genetics Iwant to be a part of the run..Which will include these and Flo after I locat or buy a pk from Legends..
Thanks for any interest what so ever and glad if folks find it a interesting and enlightening read..Im only discussing what I know and only speculate on the rest until DJ confirms a few things or they confirm themselves thru trial and error..What I do state as my Own Experience with DJ's lines and the Blue families so they may not be exactly what others find cause we all grow differently a Plant that will grow to suit its own Environment..
I feel DJ almost could of done a greater service to the Canna scene by Helping folks Learn to Grow these unique breeds in the very beginning of it all..But maybe thats what Im supposed to be doing here...Im not saying it was destined..But I never had any intentions of going into allot of details and facts that Ive now for some reason opened up and decided to discuss openly in public forums....yea I must be high...lol...
..Enjoy
FOE20
---------------------
DJ Heirloom BB cut - workin to get her..
DJ Flo cut
DJ's orig BBerry circa 99-2k
DJ's orig BMoonshine 2/3'ds a orig breeder pk....amen Kaya
OTM orig breeder pk 2002
BSat v1.0 (my own f.2's from SOL breeder pk 2003)
BlueSat v2.2 (purcell f-gens)
TIMs BBSat IBL pre 98 BB genetics
Flo - looking to get soon..
Blue Heaven (f.2)
Fighting Buddah - (Burmese x BB),,..if this was a DJ BB used n just sounds like a great hyb to me..
Mental Floss - think this is a CottonCandy x BB? so this also sounds very Sweet..
GrapeKrush - running now
HoneyBee - running now
Sweet Blue - thinking of trying this...any input?...I have stock already..
3xBM - Kaya's and my own worked ver....
Interesting note..My 5xBM Sat doms show quite a few more Mutations than Kayas 3xBM rel for those taking notes..

[swampdank]

Hey Foe, I assume you did finally get your hands on the heirloom cut. Would this be the same cut that DJ released to the community last year??

[XyZ]

Originally Posted by FOE20

How on Gods earth can a Sativa Dom hybrid finish only a Week later than its Polar Indica sibling...its not possible...

well Anything is possible ...don't like to use the word "g0d" but if you wanna understand this natural mechanisms... than the answer in this case is waiting in a regular genetic book (not even advanced or academic

the flowering time is only 1 trait from 2 million others & the F2 generation from a truly polar hybrid will show a huge variety of (re)combinations and mixes between the parent plants. a man with the correct selection can find an optically indica-looking plant with sativa resin and flavor (although the smell is a bit more complex trait because there are always many different aromas present and the final expression is a product from all together)

of course someone could think that the shorter flowering plants in the F2 are definitely indica-linked ...which is actually correct... but correct only for 1 trait (flowering-time)! Testing the finished product with smoking or/and instrumental analysis is the only way how a human can explore the potential of the trichomes. with macro photos you can see the trichome density and structure (the fat gland-heads are most wanted) but the effect can be only measured in the brain (smoke

don't have time for typing more at the moment ...so to say in short... creating an early mostly sativa hybrid (or late flowering mostly indica) is a matter of art + science (and not a wonder

Im going to start with with a Quote from VicHigh posted by Chimera...
Notice the Last 4 words in his sentence....this was in 1999..

it was posted by vic high in answer to chimera

the full post is below

Posted by Vic High on December 02, 1999 at 21:13:41 ET:
In Reply to: Vic's got the answer posted by Chimera on December 02, 1999 at 11:32:01 ET:
It's a pleasure meeting someone who can talk the talk
Since you seem fairly up on the blueberry heritage, maybe you can help solve some of the information and conflicting information about it. One DJ article suggests
blueberry came from some berry kushes, then in the followup article in Cannabis World, DJ suggests blueberry is actually Afghani heritage. I'm not going to
pretend I know alot about the classic strains (blueberry is classic to me so these two statements seem to conflict for me. Any insight?
Another confusing point made by first Marc Emery and now you. You both seem to suggest that the blueberry genetics haven't been inundated with foreign
genetics (like bubbleberry) and that it is still the same line, but just further inbred. This completely conflicts with what the seed description says and what I've
observed. If blueberry was further inbred, I would expect it to have less vigour, but in fact the opposite is true. If you can trace your blueberry to the first batch
offered by Sag, you will get one phenotype, a real bitch to grow. But any blueberry aquired after that will show more vigour. I must admit that I have only two
experiences with the initial blueberry release, but both are of identical phenotype. The first is what I bought way back from Marc Emery. The second were some
second generation I got from a friend in the UK who says he bought the parents direct from Sag and that it was their first batch. Like I said, both of these are very
similar, consistent, and show symptoms of being inbred for 10 years in a closet. Now after that date, whether from Sag, Marc, or DP, the blueberries were much
more robust, but I have noticed as you suggest, that the initial batches were somewhat variable, but that they have been becoming more consistent over time.
The evidence suggests this:
that DJ inbred blueberry for 10 years in a small closet like grow for ten years as he has stated. He then made an initial release of these but got complaints of their
lack of vigour. Or for some other reason, he then crossed it with bubbleberry (dutch genetics) as his seed description suggests, and has been stabilizing that cross
ever since. And as you say is now at generation 5 or 6. Despite the new revelations by you and Marc Emery, this is what the evidence and archived info suggests.
Otherwise, how do we explain that the new, further inbred, version is more robust than the older version? What's your thoughts?

Mental Floss - think this is a CottonCandy x BB? so this also sounds very Sweet..

MF has no CC in it

You'll all notice he didnt rel TrueBBerry untill Later in the releases but its been avail at quite a few Seed vendors for a while now...Now TrueBBerry is a Indica Dominant Berry pheno type to me..Not Sativa and yes it can be grown and finish under 9wks as many plants can be..But thats not what were doing here as if thats the case than How on Gods earth can a Sativa Dom hybrid finish only a Week later than its Polar Indica sibling...
Cause its not possible...
For the most part Im speaking of the Rare Occurrence of the Sativa Dom Blue Lines when talking on these topics...
Im not a indica or Indica Dom fan by any means...

the reason he didn't release this until later is he hadn't selected the plants, this selection was done with help from a few friends... and is all documented by Dj

with regards again to TBB i stated earlier the the Bk was an F4 this was infact wrong well not quite, the released TBB was I believe an Inbred line like all Djs releases, however the initial cross may have been TF F3 Fem x BK BB F3 (line bred from F2s) the BK BB F2 coming from previous large grow and selection process , I will edit my earlier post for clarity... rereading info again for clarity and as pointed out I believe by MrAlkaline in another thread the F2s would of been line bred to F4 then bx to TF then line bred again whether they were only bx once I have no idea, the TF to me is pivotal- so you get B144xB130 (both F4) implies the stock for tbb etc comes from the temple flo (F3)x BK F3 hence the TBB release are F5's

The seed stock “True Blueberry” currently under scrutiny derived from f2’s that were very “BK” or Berry Kush-like. These f2 “BK”’s were crossed with very “TF”, or “True Floral”, sometimes referred to as “Temple Flo”, mates in the f3 and/or f4 generation to brighten the head considerably. Once the right mix was discovered these f4’s (and beyond) crosses were inline bred (filial crossed) to stabilize the proper traits. The “flo” pheno’s are closer to the “TF” (“True Floral”, “Temple Flo”), headier side of the mix, most reminiscent of the Highland Oaxaca Gold.

so to put it simply it has an indica finishing time with a sativa high, I do not see why this is not feasable as pointed out by Yoda aka Xyz

here was Chimeras reply to vic High

Re: Hey Chimera
Posted by Chimera on December 03, 1999 at 14:48:24 ET:
In Reply to: Hey Chimera posted by Vic High on December 02, 1999 at 21:13:41 ET:
Hey Vic, How ya doin?
This is what I know about the heritage, unfortunately there seems to be a lot of pollitics involved which really muddy the waters on the subject.
Dj bred this and his other strains all from the same gene pools, he just took different routes and incorporated different strains in further geerations. I also notcied
some incongruences between his hightimes and Cannabis Culture articles ( I wasn't to pleased with the CC article, he realy didn't say much in it so I'm looking
forward to the follow up article). DJ did the original breeding from the berry kushes as per hightimes article. Sag sold the first commercial version, and subsequently
bred a Blueberry bubblegum cross. I highly doubt that DJ then rebred that cross into the original, Sag screwed him and didn't pay for the seeds, in fact they sold
many more that DJ originally gave them, so they must of cut him out and stole the strain to sell as their own. This is where Marc and DP enter the picture as
AUTHORIZED DEALERS whatever that means.
The only thing that I can think of to clarify the Kush/ Afghan argument is that the Kush mountains (where the name kush came from) are in afghanistan. He may use
these terms interchangeably which obviously leads to confusion. This is like saying BC genetics are the same as Canadian genetics, its Kinda true, but definitely not
precise. As for the initial vigor and stability goes, I didn't get to the blueberry untill Marc and Sita (Amsterdam Cafe in Vancouver) started carrying them, so I really
shouldn't comment on anything prior to that. I'll recheck the HT and CC articles and see if I can come up with a better answer. As a side note, DJ won't do
business with Sag anymore, and Sag won't do business with Marc anymore (they told me that he is not authorized to sell Sag seeds). Adam (TH seeds) was also
somewhat disgruntled that he didn't recieve any agknowledgement for his contribution to the Bubbleberry cross. Goes to show that this is in fact a SEEDY
business, and we should all do what we can to legitimize it wherever we can.
Peace to all, and hopefully your individual blueberries are sweet and stony. -Chimera

thanks to Dragnfly for originally posting them up

I will take pics of a F2 from PP that to me is sat like in high but finishes faster than a ind high or not high plant its a trich bitch for sure......

kopite

Dear F-13, who is your daddy and was he a mutant?

this shares the same dad as TBB does it not, it just takes a different route after the initial cross...... I can't remember if one of the flos was involved in the F-13 i'm guessing it would of been the flo with the leaves pointing up ? I'm also guessing a Bx to the TF F3

great read foe, your knowledge of the blueline is outstanding i must fess up that my grey matter tends to slide about on such detailed information

Originally Posted by swampdank

Now that I think about it, my keeper is always taken at around 50-55 days. I always mean to take it at 9 weeks but she insists on an earlier date. I never mentioned this as I though it might start a "it could go a little longer imo" discussion. But dammitt if she aint ready for us early. She is waaaay strong at this point. Hell, I have taken her at just over 30 days before and she still kicked ass.


Edit: I also wait for the plant to mature before "flipping" Usually she is sporting a lone calyx at the leaf node before she is ready to go. I am still working with light schedules but for now. I think outdoors will bring the best results.

ive got to agree swamp, ive took my cut over 60days a few times with no advantage imho, if the grows gone well shes prime at 54, bt as youve comented, still very potent a lot earlier.

bests cmoon

[FOE20]

hey Swamdank...yea same cut...and no brah Im working to acquire it thats why it says "working to get her"...
I could tho its just takin time causer Im not trying that hard atm...I gata move so whats the point till then....

and for you chaps...just to let ya know Im Doc'n these quotes my bruthas...no hard feeling on any of this..Speak your mind and don;t sweat it...I never do..But don't be surprised if their used against the Topic in later commentary...heheh...just like Im quoted....Its all for the hope of finding a Light in the Darkness..Or just a light to fire up some good Dankness...heh...

kewl Kopite...I said it correct the first time..I know it was the answer Chimera got from Vic did I post in backward or something?....
and I have those posts to...but did you miss my point?....the last 4 words?.....
I know 1 thing for Fact...TBB isnt that hard to grow compared to BBerry Sats....mainly cause to me and I thought everyone...Its Indica dom...
btw bro..we also have a BBerry Sat that wants to finish in under 8wks..and its not DJ's cut...So your saying DJ's original BBerry Sativa is a 8-9wk plant?...If thats the case then we'll just disagree...no biggie bro...I'llpost pics of the Fast Blue to...who cares about that thing..Its smells great..Yields for squat and has 1/3 less Effect than DJ's...Thats my 2 pents on the "Fast Blue" cut we have...

agreed XYZ....but it still should be Regionally Based on how they should grow or at least grown out enough to make these points moot or not...TBB and Flo aint BBerry to me..Im not sure what were talkin about...Im starting to get lost in the comments or points that are trying be made by others..

also I have a challenge for you Fast Blue Sat Holders..show us the Blue Buds you get at 8wks.....the Fast Cut Don't Turn Blue...maybe theres a point you all can grasp in that...heheh...

I ran just over this last yr F-13, GKrush and HBee (BobBluexFlo)....Posted all, and did the threads an all....ran all 2-3 phenos at 3-4 different flower times and agreed with all of what You cats say about them and the Indica side including TBB,,..
thats not the bloody topic here tho...so Im over it.....Do what ya will but I just wanted to express my view and the Base Time line of DJ's work..
Look ...its a Plant....Nature manipulates it by moving it by any means avail..Birds, Textiles and Humans...
You all are saying that a Indica Dom line of Phenoms can be taken at this or that..Yes Ive Said that...Thats not my point..
Im saying that the Sativa Blue Lines which Im mainly Talking about are Not nor will ever Be Grown Properly under 9wks if its a Real True Sativa Dom BBerry....Take that anyway you want but theres no way its ever gana change...TBB isnt a Sativa to Me and I find more Sativa in the BMoon lines than Todays Blue Lines...

You know it won't matter cause in a few months I'll do what I always do so just keep talkin gentz..I'll run them out and show what Im talkin...and yes this means TBB and Indica doms at 7-10wks and orig BBerry ands Sat doms at 8-14wks....eesh...why is this such a big fukin deal to you guys?..
Be happy with your Indicas and be well.....Im happy with my Sats so I'll move forward as always...
FOE20

[Mr. Alkaline]

I'll say a statement or two here...

....maybe it has been, that 'I' have stated input on various lineages...but, I'll also state that I am humbled by everyones thoughts herein.
Furthermore, -I do indeed see all of you to be of equal worth to myself,...in all regards. AND, if/when...one person disagrees...then I disagree with myself...iow...there ARE so many brillant people here that 'even I'...feel frozen to post at times.
....in all reality...my entire knowledge of DJS comes from each and everyone of you.
THX 4 the thread and all of your times.

[Octavian]

FOE20, here is the information I have regarding the Chimera x DJ Short Joint releases, and includes a quote from Red. It can also be found in the Comprehensive Strainlist link in my sig.

DJ Short Blueberry - This Blueberry is derived from original Blueberry, an unreleased line that also fathered DJ Short True Blueberry. Chimera was given access to the room in which DJ Short's male selections were made. He chose several individuals personally, as well as the now deceased B130 male that DJ selected himself, and these selections are the pollen donors for the Joint Projects.
"There is variation in every pack. You WILL find the one that you are looking for in each pack as everyone has differing tastes, the one will be different for everyone. I love the mutant factor! Some of the best resin has come off of the mutants in these current releases. As far as using these strains in breeding projects-GO FOR IT. Every cross that I have seen turns out spectacular. In these new hybrids the blueberry gene is very dominant. A classic example is Chimera's Fighting Buddha. This Burmese cross has heavy Blue line traits(foxtailing, purple stem...)." - Red from Legends Seeds

Mental Floss #1 (??? x DJ Short Blueberry)
Mental Floss #2 (??? x DJ Short Flo)
Fighting Buddha (Burmese x DJ Short Blueberry)
Sweet Pink Grapefruit x DJ Short Blueberry
Sassyfrass (Superior Afghani Skunk x DJ Short Blueberry)
Schnazzleberry #2 (the Dom x DJ Short Blueberry)
C-Plus (California Orange x DJ Short Blueberry)
Highland Mexican x DJ Short Blueberry
Vision Thai x DJ Short Blueberry
Mountain Jam (Soulshine x DJ Short Blueberry)
Sweetest Sativa (Sweet Skunk x DJ Short Blueberry)

Cheers!

Octavian