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How many watts per plant?

B

Bleed~green

How many watts per plant in a small scrog grow? Also what are the best ratios and colors for veg and flower? Sorry if I'm asking questions that have already been answered it's just hard to get a straight answer.

Thanks
B~g
 
J

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
Bleed~green said:
How many watts per plant in a small scrog grow? Also what are the best ratios and colors for veg and flower? Sorry if I'm asking questions that have already been answered it's just hard to get a straight answer.

Thanks
B~g
Click to expand...

The real issue is watts of HID lighting per square foot of growing area, either HPS, MH, or a mix of the two. Some growers use the newer ceramic metal halide bulbs, as well. Most growers use HPS.

Something on the order of 60 watts per square foot, give or take a little, gives solid results. That's particularly true in a reflective enclosure- flat white, reflectorized, anything helps.

Scroggers pinch & train their plants extensively to create an even canopy that fills the space before inducing flowering. More plants let them fill the canopy more quickly. One plant can be trained to fill a 4 sq ft area in a reasonable amount of time, while 2 will do so much faster.

I'm not a scrogger, not yet anyway, so I speak only in generalized terms. Read up. A middle of the road approach between the wide difference of opinion on the subject should give good results.

Fan vented reflectors aid enormously in temp control in small enclosures.

Hope that helps.

OOps! You're asking about LED's. I apologize. I tend to look at new posts, didn't notice that I'm in the LED section, where I don't belong. Mea culpa.
 
ThaMagnificent

ThaMagnificent

Member
I believe it's the same as any other light like an HPS for example. Just make sure you're figuring true watts and not the "possible" or whatever watts the LED lights advertise. I forgot the actual name sorry!
 
F

frozty

Member
footprint (in ft) per actual power draw
1x1 125w
2x2 260w
3x3 300w - 450w
4x4 I recommend 500w but people get away with 450w

Hydro + LED is awesome
You should get some decent results even for a first timer if you follow a couple rules.

1 water less frequently in soil
2 On LED plants tend to use up more nutes :D but you can still burn em
3 Mg and Calcium are a must!
4 make sure you have 630nm lights that is key to getting some nuggs.
5 Good air circulation.
6 Watch your remperature
7 watch out for mold when flowering.

My 2 cents on it feel free to try out what works best for you. Everyone grows different and its best to find what works for you.
 
Mustafunk

Mustafunk

Brand new oldschool
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You can't really figure out how many watts per plant, it would really depend on the size of the plant and the surface it fills.

Normally, with good leds you can have a good performance with 300w or slightly less per square meter, so it could be equiparable to 400W HPS (only talking about top binned leds of course) and probably surpass the 1g/watt barrier when using optimal growing methods for leds, although normally not with the same bud density and size.

Obvioulsy, led, hid or whatever... the more light, the better and with diodes you have a great advantage, no heat so you can put all the wattage you want in small spaces and no worries about the temperature! ;)
 
S

supino

Member
I've been wondering this as well.. I had been running (2) 420w panels in a 4x8 tent. These had replaced a 600w and 1000w hps. Since then my yields/density have sucked, not to mention extended flowering times. I have wondered is it was the spectra, or just not enough wattage in general. Btw these units killawatt out at 375w. I am considering putting another 300w panel in the center (killawatt at 265) for a total of ~1000 true watts. This equates to 32 w/sq ft. This seems to be a more respectable range..do folks think this will be enough? This is about the watts/sqft most retailers recommend. Will this give me the quality, density, yields I remember from hps?
 
ThaMagnificent

ThaMagnificent

Member
supino said:
I've been wondering this as well.. I had been running (2) 420w panels in a 4x8 tent. These had replaced a 600w and 1000w hps. Since then my yields/density have sucked, not to mention extended flowering times. I have wondered is it was the spectra, or just not enough wattage in general. Btw these units killawatt out at 375w. I am considering putting another 300w panel in the center (killawatt at 265) for a total of ~1000 true watts. This equates to 32 w/sq ft. This seems to be a more respectable range..do folks think this will be enough? This is about the watts/sqft most retailers recommend. Will this give me the quality, density, yields I remember from hps?
Click to expand...

What kind of LEDs are you using?
 
Smoking Lamp

Smoking Lamp

Member
I have 50w's of LED bulbs in 1.5sq ft [13x17] and they are GREAT!

Fuck the wattage bullshit, who cares. These bulbs put out an average of 35% more PAR than a 2700k 26w cfl bulb and they are 10w's apiece. Spectrum and intensity, more important in relation to wattage used. The 26watt cfl will average probably about 125 umols @ 12 inches and the LED's average about 35% more than that, while running at about 2.5x less wattage [80mA's per bulb].

Unfortunately, most LED's these days are smoke and mirrors about "Spectrum and intensity" ,because most wouldn't sell their overpriced lights.

With that said anywhere over 40 watts of good LED per square foot and you will be smiling. The A51 190 will do a 2x2 area @160 watts. Maybe even a 2x3.

[Edit: 35% may be a conservative measure too, I have seen as high as 300+umols from the Cree 2700k warm whites. 35% higher than 125 = 169umols. ]
 
VerdantGreen

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frozty said:
footprint (in ft) per actual power draw
1x1 125w
2x2 260w
3x3 300w - 450w
4x4 I recommend 500w but people get away with 450w

........
My 2 cents on it feel free to try out what works best for you. Everyone grows different and its best to find what works for you.
Click to expand...

erm, your figures dont really add up
1x1 125w = 125 watts per square foot
2x2 260w = 65 watts per square foot
3x3 300w - 450w = 33 - 50 watts per square foot
4x4 500w = 31.25 watts per square foot

which is 3 or 4 vastly different watts per sq ft!


anyway, i like to use 40 to 50 watts per square foot in my scrogs (as mentioned above, per plant is meaningless because it depends how big your plants are, just make sure the canopy is filled with buds)
i usually get around 1gpw

GL

VG
 
S

supino

Member
Thanks folks... I use (2) Bysen 420w panel Led from China, as well as a 300w Hydrogrow style panel from china as well in the center. I was concerned as to whether or not my smaller than anticipated yields and lack of density came from lacking the infrared 740nm spectrum in my Bysen panels, which gave addl reds at the sacrifice of the IR, a friend suggested I was just underlit.. Prompting the addition of the 300w, which also has the IR .. Which has be in place about a week.. And seems to be greatly helping..I'm considering switching the 300 w for a 560w version if the same thing. I guess I'm just looking for something more than speculation as to 'how much' is necessary in the led world.. I'm coming from years of HID.. And the switch is like comparing apples to oranges...
 
S

supino

Member
My two 420w panels killawatt out at 375w and my 300w at 265w. At 1015w in a 30sqft tent I'm just under 34w/sqft. If I go w the larger panel in the center this will boost my area to just under 41 w/sqft. Hopefully the addition of the center panel, even the smaller one, will put me in the realm of quality/quantity I previously experienced w my hortilux blue and hps. Am I just being optimistic? Do I still need more light?
 
J

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
supino said:
I've been wondering this as well.. I had been running (2) 420w panels in a 4x8 tent. These had replaced a 600w and 1000w hps. Since then my yields/density have sucked, not to mention extended flowering times. I have wondered is it was the spectra, or just not enough wattage in general. Btw these units killawatt out at 375w. I am considering putting another 300w panel in the center (killawatt at 265) for a total of ~1000 true watts. This equates to 32 w/sq ft. This seems to be a more respectable range..do folks think this will be enough? This is about the watts/sqft most retailers recommend. Will this give me the quality, density, yields I remember from hps?
Click to expand...

I haven't used LED's, but I've been studying them. I would suggest that you need to use a Killawatt meter or an amprobe to determine the actual current draw of your equipment. Ratings and reality can differ significantly. Even if your LED's deliver better spectrum, it seems to me that won't create any miracles on its own. You still need power, light intensity to do the job. Your original 1600w setup actually draws more power than 1600w, loses some efficiency as heat. So do LED's, if supposedly at a somewhat better ratio. It seems to me that you won't get the results you want until your LED array consumes an honest 1200 watts or so, maybe more. That's a 25% improvement in efficiency.

Or not. I could be all wet.
 
VerdantGreen

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jhnn is right, its the watage they draw from the wall you need to use in your calculations rather than the advertised rating.

like i say 40-50w per square foot should give decent results with reasonable quality lights. i use HGL ones.
 
habeeb

habeeb

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hey verdant..

I know your a fan of HGl, I am also... but I have been noticing my DIY led are killing the HGl panels.

basically half the power, and the same result.. 150 DIY, to the 280 X2


I also ran the SOL light.. I had a 2 foot plant, it honestly did good below, but I found the light to lack the weight of even the X2.

I can say the cobbs might be cheaper.. which they jacked the price after they came out, I got mine for far cheaper then there listed now.. but there not the greatest in terms of efficiency. I also would contribute that how many watts on such a small area, which is why I believe they would do better letting go of the color, and jumping on the white train, or at least doing 70% white.. I would bet as I've seen... they use some cree cobbs, they would be golden right now. they have the money to prototype things and get things into production, they need to move before someone else does.



I still feel the best setups for a long time are a blanket of led covering the top of the grow. 1 1/2 foot plant height max, until cree comes out with some super killer cobbs, and someone designs a reflector for them to distribute light a little better.
 
VerdantGreen

VerdantGreen

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hey habeeb, im sure a well-made home-made fixture would beat most commercial lights, never mind an old model from HGL. i've never really used any LED other than HGL so have no comparison.
i loved the sol but i wouldnt say they throw any more light per watt than any other of the fixtures i use. the design is cool though and has a lot of potential.
i certainly agree that a wide, even spacing of the diodes over the whole grow area is the way to go, my 2x 1w 126 fixtures really rock in my 'big' 2x2.5' cab

VG
 
Smoking Lamp

Smoking Lamp

Member
habeeb said:
hey verdant..

I know your a fan of HGl, I am also... but I have been noticing my DIY led are killing the HGl panels.

basically half the power, and the same result.. 150 DIY, to the 280 X2


I also ran the SOL light.. I had a 2 foot plant, it honestly did good below, but I found the light to lack the weight of even the X2.

I can say the cobbs might be cheaper.. which they jacked the price after they came out, I got mine for far cheaper then there listed now.. but there not the greatest in terms of efficiency. I also would contribute that how many watts on such a small area, which is why I believe they would do better letting go of the color, and jumping on the white train, or at least doing 70% white.. I would bet as I've seen... they use some cree cobbs, they would be golden right now. they have the money to prototype things and get things into production, they need to move before someone else does.



I still feel the best setups for a long time are a blanket of led covering the top of the grow. 1 1/2 foot plant height max, until cree comes out with some super killer cobbs, and someone designs a reflector for them to distribute light a little better.
Click to expand...


I agree with you here, love scrog grows with diodes......but LEDil and Angela make some great reflectors for Bridgelux vero and other COBs like the older RS series, do they not make Cree version's?
 
4

420beginner

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Choosing the best t5 grow lights for a new marijuana growing project isn’t always easy; there are just so many things you need and things you want to consider when making a new purchase. So before you go out and buy your first t5 grow lights you want to think about the lamp that’s best for what you want to do.
 
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