Inherent Prob. Decarbing 1:1 (THC:CBD) oil

donb5 said:

I think the exactness of the decarbox is very important; undecarboxylated compound doesn't have the anti-cancer activity that decarboxylated compound has. It looks like Skunk Pharm the Cannabis chemists and extract artists @ [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/ [/FONT]also agree that precision is important. They point out that THCA & CBDA can't even pass the blood-brain barrier. But also these molecules are also too large to bond with C1 or C2 receptors, the proteins which begin the signalling for the anti-cancer steps taken by the body.

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Here are some test results I got back from Analytical360 in Seattle on a QWISO RSO I made from the strain Kali:
http://analytical360.com/m/expired/108230

I made this oil with the QWISO method according to GrayWolf at SkunkPharm. I used a water distiller to cook it off (not recommended for ISO alcohol as it warps all the gaskets and you only recover 40 - 50% - I now use EverClear). Then I cook off the remaining solution over low heat either with a coffee warmer, or a rig I set up over a hot plate until the bubbles stop - and then some. None of this is very scientific, or temperature or time controlled.

Maybe I just got lucky, but as you can see from the results, my final oil was almost completely decarboxylated (activated) for both THC and CBD with only .01% CBN being created. I enjoy reading all the concerns and methods from fellow oil makers, but I am happy that my seat-of-the-pants methods seem to work pretty well without engaging my unscientific mind too much.

In about 6 weeks I will make some QWET RSO from a Harlequin plant I have brewing with the same methods and have it tested. If I get similar results, I won't worry too much about a separate decarboxylation step, as the heat from the water distiller, and the later heat from the final purge seem to do the trick. It's the BHO guys that truly need a separate decarb step, as their oil comes out very little activated (probably stoners who decarb with a Bic).

However, I will be using Everclear on the Harley because if you scroll down the test result page a bit, you will see that I had 16000 parts per million of the ISO left in the oil, which is 3 times over the acceptable 5000 ppm even after total activation of my oil. My liver gets enough of a work out with my 3 or 4 daily beers; no need to add ISO alcohol the the mix.

Cheers

Sam_Skunkman said:

I would suggest first you find out what is the best protocol to decarboxylize CBD and also find the best protocol for THC. Then you would have an understand of any potential problems/conflicts if any. Decarboxylating without oxygen might help?
I know CBN is very slowly formed by stored herbal Cannabis, and CBN also is constantly degrading at the same time after it is formed, so the situation is constaly in flux.
-Sams

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Sam, can you pls steer me to a good protocol for decarbing CBD. I have a large amount of CBDA (low THC) and am primarily interested in decarbing to get CBD. I am curious about temps and times.

I'm in Costa Rica and its still quite illegal here and since I'm not a grower its quite important to get the most out of the plant mater cause I'm buying the stuff and because its still illegal forget it about getting high CBD strains.

I have a rare advantage, I have a benign tumor in my brainstem that makes the left side of my body have numbness and pins and needles. Any reduction in size, even marginal is felt with a reduction of numbness and/or pins and needles.

Before I got sick I was an aeronautical engineer, my dad and main assistant is a chemical engineer specialized in tannery. Needless to say we strive for accuracy so everything gets measured.

I'll separate my posts into sections.

@HGP, why don't you start your own thread? It would be interesting to hear about things in Costa Rica.

1. Prep and decarboxylation
Ground all your bud/cuttings in the blender to a fine mulch. This will greatly increase the surface area of your product while decreasing the amount of alcohol that you use. A food processor does an ok job too but the blender works best.

Why decarb the weed instead of the oil?

Basically it gets hotter and closer to the actual decarb temperatures than oil or liquids. Alcohol evaporates at 76*C (168*F) and will not go over that temperature, no matter how much heat is used. Water 100*C (212*F) and oil around 90*C (194*F).

People decarb at a certain temp but never bother to check the temperature that the actual liquid is at.

Warning: Decarbing the weed is a very stinky process. Calibrate the thermostat on a portable toast-r-oven using an oven thermometer. Make sure 250*F on the dial is 250*F inside the oven. Some ovens are notoriously innacurate and undercook/overcook things and do this outside or your whole house will smell like weed.

I decarb for high THC using 27 minutes at 250*F and for CBN/CBD 51 minutes @ 250*F. People think they are making more CBD by decarbing for CBD but that's not correct. You either boost THC or get rid of it. By removing the THC the CBD becomes more readily available.

In my specific case CBD really helped but initially I had to be borderline "bad trip" to feel the healing effects of CBD. I had to figure out a way to remove THC and remove the head high since I'm after the body high.

Even on a high THC / low CBD strain I've been able to remove the head high.

oldchuck said:

@HGP, why don't you start your own thread? It would be interesting to hear about things in Costa Rica.

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I might, if guys don't mind me geeking out on this. All my pothead friends just stopped making oil their way because mi yield is so much higher and the oil can be so much stronger.

Just dragging this thread out of the basement...having read through, it seems -if I'm reading the above chart correctly - as if 120c for .5 is kind of a primo in between point. I ask because I will be trying to turn some 1:1 stock into tincture and want it all...Please let me know if thinking/experiences have evolved and I should go with a different scenario. Would the post-reduction decarb a la Skunkpharm remain a more accurate method - my concern being that -while I want the decarbed CBD- I would like to avoid CBN and/or undue cooking of terpenes. This is for medicinal purposes for a cancer patient in the family and I want to try to get it as close as possible to optimum. Thanks!!!

It takes quite a bit of heat or time to change thc-cbn. . Decarb it and have it tested. There should be minimal conversion with the heat and time you are talking about. Most of the decarbed oil I have seen tested has minimal amounts of cbn in it.