My OBBT Bucket Build

LadyLargely · Oct 8, 2009

Haha, it all sounds good!

Yea, I guess I could have covered the finer points of setting newborn seedlings in an OBBT. This is why you really need to do seed surgery, you can see how it would be impossible to 'plant' a seed in there the traditional way. Glad you decided to stick it out and root the babies in the OBBTs, even with your setback. I maintain that there are powerful benefits to tying the fungal network to these tiny sprouts so early in the game.

Yes, you see how the OBBT process works now. The air pushing through the medium will maintain a uniform moisture content until the bath goes totally dry. That's why small plants in HempyBuckets need to be watered every day (sometimes more) whereas small plants in OBBTs can go for weeks without care.

Initial rooting is always a bit rocky. Your trick with using a small plug of finer sediment to root the babies into is a good one. Some kind of little pocket of pure compost/vermiculite or something in the center of the incubating tubs should be a requirement for anyone rooting seedlings straight in. Why didn't I think of that? Good work my man.

rrog · Oct 8, 2009

You didn't think of it because its so basic to a pharmer. Second nature. I'm not that pharmer guy... yet. But I will be some day. I trip up over stupid things that a Sunday gardener never would.

Next time I'll pre-deternine where I want the seedlings to go in the buckets after filling with moist medium. Then create a small pocket of fine compost maybe 1/4 Cup. Let that little spot get bio-active with the rest of the bucket. A week later, plant the seedling in the cozy little patch.

I agree that I would have preferred to have the fungus swarm the roots within the first hours of insertion. But I'm learning.

Interesting how this Bucket is alive. It can be cut, heal, etc. It really is operating like an organism. Fascinating.

By the way, all three plants are huge and lovely green this AM. No question insufficient medium contact was the "root cause" hahahahaha... sorry.

I left the small clear drinking glasses over them and lowered the lights. I'll grab some pics this AM for those who might be interested.

LadyLargely · Oct 8, 2009

All the more so when you realize it is not 'an' organism, but billions of induvidual life-forms, all propping eachother up. How does one certain breed of bacteria 'know' to create just the right ammino acid for a certain, un-related fungal species to use? Its a city, but so much more organized and well-orchestrated than a human city. Everyone is just where they need to be just when they need to be there doing just what they need to do.

I liken it to a choreographed dance. All the individual dancers are so well-practiced and so in-tune with one another that it seems like they are telepathic. They know what needs done before it ever needs doing. Boggles my mind every time I think about it. :joint:

rrog · Oct 8, 2009

I really got a sense of it when I cut open a slot for the seedlings. I had the eerie feeling I was opening flesh. Like planting the seedling in an abdomen or something. See, year old dope will have that effect on a guy. That's why I'm desperate for some fresh weed.

rrog · Oct 9, 2009

Here are a couple of pics from this AM. One seedling seems to be taking the transition a little tougher. Not sure what the poop is but I placed the glasses back on all three.

LadyLargely · Oct 9, 2009

Looks a bit like mine did at first, just the hot medium. You had pretty high nute levels and a pretty short incubation period, there could still be some free-floating organic materials. Don't sweat it though, they would not have greened up if the levels where toxic. They're just bitching; full steam ahead!

rrog · Oct 9, 2009

That's reasonable. I did back off by 20% from your "extra crispy" recipe when building the medium, but still only 1 week of percolating.

Thanks for stopping by. I feel better

HOVAH2.0 · Oct 11, 2009

Is the microb life only sustainable in a substrate or can it survive in water alone.

some of my first DWC buckets(mediumless) had i believe, "good bacteria" smell,

kinda fish tank-y

smell, that happened after extended periods( 2weeks) of airiation/bubbling, is this the

same kind of stuff.

rrog · Oct 11, 2009

H2.0 it can survive in favorable mediums as long as food is present. So water or res, yes if some carb source is available.

LadyLargely · Oct 11, 2009

HOVAH2.0 said:
Is the microb life only sustainable in a substrate or can it survive in water alone.

some of my first DWC buckets(mediumless) had i believe, "good bacteria" smell,

kinda fish tank-y

smell, that happened after extended periods( 2weeks) of airiation/bubbling, is this the

same kind of stuff.

Yes! Organic DWC has many bacterial components that are similar to what occurs in OBBTs.

Which is one of the more interesting side-effects of the current OBBT model. The vast majority of the time there is a good amount of submerged material in an OBBT. Totally under-water. But due to the small amount of water compared to the large amount of air being pushed through it (or really fucking large amount of air in rrog's case) the water is at full oxygen saturation no matter what.

So this means OBBT is host to a variety of envoronments, in essence creating a full blown ecosystem!

The submerged 'pond' below consists of super-oxygenated water surrounding porus rock. It plays host to terrestrial plant roots (able to live submerged because there is so much air, a-la-DWC) and tons of aerobic bacteria.

This environment interacts with the second environment above. The soil-saturated portion of the OBBT plays host to much more fungi than the lower bit. (the bath surely has a couple, but they are not dominant)

Hosting strong beneficial bacteria is why we OBBT gardeners like to use Lacto Bactilli cultures. That particular brand of bacteria is especially versetile and battles unwanted pathogens with unique ferocity.

The benefits of oxygen-boosted micro life in organic applications are not unique to OBBT gardeners. There are a lot of us who can benefit from this effect, spread the word! :joint:

MrGreen · Oct 11, 2009

How are the seedlings doing today?

I have enough posts if ya wanna PM me about the CMH bulbs.

I will leave you with this spectrum comparison of CMH to HPS bulbs...

rrog · Oct 12, 2009

Mr. Green,

Thanks for that image. Since you asked about the seedlings, here they are. 6 days in the medium and not sure if this isn't BAD:

I was worried about insufficient moisture so I had a small glass cup on these for 6 days. It seemed that when I uncovered them, things got worse. Lights are about 6" from them, top soil temp is 80. Plenty moist medium all the pay to perlite.

So not sure if this is still a hot medium, or what. The "hotness" refers to the micro-activity or some nutrient (N) level? That is, will the "heat" subside in another week?

Or is this, in fact, a sign of too much water? There is a LOT of water vapor rising through these buckets. Huge vapor means huge air. I would blame my cups + spraying with water daily if that's the case.

See, I don't see all that water as a bad thing. If this were stagnant soil I would be concerned, but with the large air supply I have there's plenty of air for roots, means no drowning of roots. LadyL or anyone else feel free to see if any of this makes sense. Experience with plants is a pretty big thing I lack. I wouldn't be surprised that my seedlings likely display a symptom that everyone here has seen before.

If so, I'm wondering if I shouldn't start another batch of seeds just in case. The seeds I have are a year old, stored in the cool and dark. Even so, they won't last forever.

Not sure if this seedling stress may undue weeks of Ethylene treatment.

Thoughts from anyone?

HOVAH2.0 · Oct 12, 2009

how bout using this system, with sea salts. that would be the sh*t uh ?

so its known
1. using a larger substrate ie: 5gallon 2/3 lava 1/3 coco

2. more air u have the better.

what about adding
1. have the whole thing recirculate.

2. have a fan blowing on the return to the rez.

rrog · Oct 12, 2009

HOVAH2.0 said:
how bout using this system, with sea salts. that would be the sh*t uh ?

so its known
1. using a larger substrate ie: 5gallon 2/3 lava 1/3 coco

2. more air u have the better.

what about adding
1. have the whole thing recirculate.

2. have a fan blowing on the return to the rez.

Not sure on sea salts. Not familiar with the term. Not seeing the value of the fan? To cool?

I'm not sure there would be any benefit from that much air. I'm not sure that the larger amount of air I'm doing will prove more beneficial than lower air. I'm just trying it for the moment. And you may been more soil / medium than the roughly 1.5 gallons you mentioned.

With all of that air, you would need some sort of re-circulation. As it is, I add a quart of water every 4-5 days. Through the sight level tube. The air supply you are describing would lower the pail res fast. Of course you're talking about a larger "res" in the pail with roughly 3 gallons of rock / water. I estimated that 50% of that space was actually water, so you'd only have 1.5 gallons of water on board. Roughly. If my pumps / stones were added to that much water, I would empty it in 3-4 weeks. That ain't worth re-circulating.

Unless it's sea salts you are looking to distribute in the re-circ? You would be doing a top down drip?

h.h. · Oct 12, 2009

They shouldn't need the moisture at this point. I'd try to leave the covers off. If the stem isn't getting narrow at the base I wouldn't worry much. The age of the seed might be effecting them some, though a year isn't that old.
I use glass from an old ceiling fan light. Cone shaped with a small opening at the top to let heat circulate out. The medium stays wet, the leaves stay dry. and the quail don't get at them.

rrog · Oct 12, 2009

Thanks for that stem diameter tip. I'll look straight away.

rrog · Oct 13, 2009

Well all three seedlings are dead as doornails. I have buckets still bubbling, but lights are now off.

4 new seeds are being Ethylene treated with banana and apple.

Is there any sort of clock ticking with the OBBT? I mean, If I planted again in 2 weeks, would that be a significant step backwards or would the medium be "cooler" then?

I think the excess moisture was a potential culprit. Stems were brown and came right off. The top medium area was moist but not too moist. So I assume it was my glass cups, dunno.

My options:

#1 I could re-mix all three buckets and let them re-percolate for 2 weeks.

#2 I could let the existing (no re-mix) medium cook for 2 more weeks (been 2 weeks already) while the Ethylene does its thing on the new seeds.

#3 I could plant seeds today. No Ethylene treatment.

I think next round the seedlings will go in earlier. I think that should make for a more stable entry into the soil. What do y'all think?

Thanks

RipVanWeed · Oct 13, 2009

Morning rrog,

I think you may be playing with fire. The preload of nutes and the relatively short incubation time means the medium is probably too hot for newborns.

Maybe you could sprout and start the seeds in a more traditional way. Soak 'em till they grow tails, then plant them in an intermediary medium ( something soft, and cool to the touch ) like FF Light Warrior. I use FF Ocean Forest cut with Perlite and coco in a beer cop. You could try even smaller dixie cups or sumpin'.

When I started up my OBBT buckets

and plugged in my 1st set of plants, while they were not the greenest babies in the world, there was an adjustment period. Shocked would be the word, I suppose. Some of the early leaves showed some burn, but nothing excessive, then they took off growing at a rate that far surpassed my first grow, which was in soil.

I have little experience, nor do I claim to be an expert. I will say that I have read quite a bit,

and have become an advocate of KISS. I do not know your level of experience, and take no offense, when I say that perhaps the offgassing on your seeds, and too much dabbling in hormones and sprays, should be left to the experts. Or just do some seeds traditional, and some aggressive, this way dead ends can be avoided.

I eff'ed up my grow too, instead of starting fresh, I tried to plug another set of plantlets right into the medium. Not good, as soon as I realized things were not working like they did last time, I fabbed up a new set of buckets.

The new set is incubating right now. My combination of impatience, and procrastination have once again bit me. If I had prepped in advance, my grow would not be delayed. I think I can grow the plant, but I have alot to learn

about timing and such, to have a smooth running garden.

Hey, I just thought I'd throw in my :2cents:

. I'm feeling your pain.

Grow on

Respect,

rrog · Oct 13, 2009

Hello Rip, Thanks for stopping by. I can appreciate your thoughts. No worries on the experience comments. I jumped into full Hydro on my very first grow a year ago against the advice of many. It turned out quite well in the end. Learned a lot the hard way.

The Ethylene is pretty straightforward. Just a bag and a piece of fruit. So I'm not to worried about that.

There were no other additives or sprays at all. Just the basic OBBT medium, cut back 20% on "hot" ingredients as indicated by LL.

I like the idea of a different starter mix in a tiny cup. Or let the OBBT cook another couple weeks? That's what I'm wondering. Would 2 more weeks of cooking cool the mix off too much?

Thanks again,

RipVanWeed · Oct 13, 2009

Sprout your seeds now and let your medium mature for the time it takes for your seeds to root.

Respect,

My OBBT Bucket Build

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