Thoughts on using florakleen and a pressure cooker to reuse hydroton/perlite

Bird of Hermes · Mar 31, 2018

So after 5hrs of eyeball burning searching i think ive come up with a way to reuse perlite and hydroton. Im running hempy buckets with a 50/50 mix of perlite/hydroton cause i got a ton of both of them already.

First step is to immediately after chopping tilt the buckets over into a storage tote and as gently as possible pour and pull it all out. Goal here being to remove as much of the root mass as i can in big pieces.

Second step is to soak media in a florakleen solution and agitate it periodically to loosen up salts then rinse it with a collander or something.

Then dump into a 16qt pressure cooker with 2" of water and cook at 15lbs pressure for 30min to a hour. No jars needed and this cooker will not be used for food or anything else. Then let it slowly cool down.

After that another florakleen bath and rinse then its done. I will run cannazym like usual and assume it would eat any tiny roots that might be leftover .

Ive read about using physan 20, bleach, hydrogen peroxide but would rather avoid toxic chem buildup. Hours of searches came up with people talking about this on shroom sites and a different cannabis forum. Didnt want to post links to another forum but if you want to see type "pressure cook hydroton" and it should be at the top of a google search.

There is no hydro shops nearby so i order everything online which costs a lot. Even if this sounds tedious id still do it if it means safely being able to reuse media. Any thoughts on if this process will make the hydroton and perlite safe to reuse? Ty in advance for any input on this

brookie · Mar 31, 2018

It sounds like a total waste of time. I use perlite/vermiculite in buckets. I give everything a two week final flush with rainwater. I have been reusing my mix for 14 years now. When I start running short I just buy some more and add it in with my old stuff. I don't get it all back after a good root shake but I do get most of it. There will be a million people on here who will say it will never work. Try it for yourself with one bucket and you will see.

Ununionized · Mar 31, 2018

Yeah, I'm here to say my own story but what brookie is saying is pretty much the deal.

When I was a boy my mother ran a pets/plants/fish shop and ladies were constantly coming by wanting to sell us their perlite after they tanked a hydroponic grow or two.

My mother went all over the state asking professional gardeners about re-using perlite and the story from nearly all of them is this:

Perlite is perlite when it floats. After that, it's just sand. So figure out what's reusable by washing it so it floats.

You can degrade it and crunch it by handling it roughly.

You can sterilize it with a medium strong bleach solution, just keep washing the water over the floating perlite gently, for about 15 minutes.. spread out in the sun, especially, and dry.

It's good stuff and all the non soil media, that are of this stone type material, are designed to be re-used.

noreason · Mar 31, 2018

Bird I was in this some moths/years ago just for hydroton and a way to re-use it.

I was thinkhing to let everything in a big container filled with water and inoculated with different kinds of bacteria.

First do an anaerobic stage, than an aerobic one insuflating air into it. This should remove all organic matter reducing it into powder.

Finally you wash everything with some disinfectant and it's done.

Does it work? Dunno but I can't see why not... and it should be very safe until you're not inoculating some strange bacteria/fungi.

Other way than that could be using a big amount of the right corrosive/oxydating substace. Like a bath in a acid, but this seems too fucked up to me.

Please keep us updated if you find the right way :tiphat:

Bird of Hermes · Mar 31, 2018

brookie said:
It sounds like a total waste of time. I use perlite/vermiculite in buckets. I give everything a two week final flush with rainwater. I have been reusing my mix for 14 years now. When I start running short I just buy some more and add it in with my old stuff. I don't get it all back after a good root shake but I do get most of it. There will be a million people on here who will say it will never work. Try it for yourself with one bucket and you will see.

You may be right and I've heard people say you don't need to sterilize unless the previous grow had a infection. I've seen salt buildup over time so I definitely know that a florakleen bath then rinse will help with that.

Might not be needed every run but if I ever got root rot or something I'd be kicking myself for not sterilizing the medium. Time is one thing I usually have a surplus of and my 16qt pressure cooker can cook around 4 gallons at a time so wouldn't be too hard. Thanks for the info though if you've been reusing that long I definitely feel better about reusing my stuff.

Bird of Hermes · Mar 31, 2018

Ununionized said:
Yeah, I'm here to say my own story but what brookie is saying is pretty much the deal.

When I was a boy my mother ran a pets/plants/fish shop and ladies were constantly coming by wanting to sell us their perlite after they tanked a hydroponic grow or two.

My mother went all over the state asking professional gardeners about re-using perlite and the story from nearly all of them is this:

Perlite is perlite when it floats. After that, it's just sand. So figure out what's reusable by washing it so it floats.

You can degrade it and crunch it by handling it roughly.

You can sterilize it with a medium strong bleach solution, just keep washing the water over the floating perlite gently, for about 15 minutes.. spread out in the sun, especially, and dry.

It's good stuff and all the non soil media, that are of this stone type material, are designed to be re-used.

Yeah I figured I'd do my best to not crush stuff any further and that the hydroton would keep the mixture from compacting. I've read about using bleach but am wary of it seeping into and staying inside the hydroton then slowly releasing during the next grow and mess stuff up apparently the lye inside it hangs around a lot. Have read that you can use h2o2 to neutralize the bleach but am unsure how effective that'd be. Good info though and I'll definitely mull it over some. I'm still cleaning my room after a broad mite infestation so won't have any media to clean for awhile so I'll think it over. Got rid of all the soil I was using and am going back
to hempy buckets when i restart. Ty for the info union

Bird of Hermes · Mar 31, 2018

noreason said:
Bird I was in this some moths/years ago just for hydroton and a way to re-use it.

I was thinkhing to let everything in a big container filled with water and inoculated with different kinds of bacteria.

First do an anaerobic stage, than an aerobic one insuflating air into it. This should remove all organic matter reducing it into powder.

Finally you wash everything with some disinfectant and it's done.

Does it work? Dunno but I can't see why not... and it should be very safe until you're not inoculating some strange bacteria/fungi.

Other way than that could be using a big amount of the right corrosive/oxydating substace. Like a bath in a acid, but this seems too fucked up to me.

Please keep us updated if you find the right way

Interesting I'll look into all of that noreason I won't have any media to clean until the fall so I got plenty of time to research. The reason I'm thinking pressure cooking is that people say nothing will survive period no germs, no viruses, no bugs no nothing. And you need no chemicals or anything just water. I may mix a batch up and run it through sometime soon and report back how the media handles it and whether it all gets crunched up or something. I'll update as soon as I get a chance to try it out thanks again guys :tiphat:

Bird of Hermes · Mar 31, 2018

And before anybody suggests it I have tried baking hydroton before and it stank up the kitchen to high hell lol

RockinRobot · Apr 1, 2018

I reused hydroton the first couple years I grew.

At the end of each grow I let it dry out well to make root removal easier. Once I removed the old roots I filled reservoir with fresh RO and Clearex let the pump run for 24 hours.

Never had an issue. Cleaning it got old and now I buy new each run. It's really no more expensive than rockwool croutons.

Absolem · Apr 1, 2018

Florakleen is nothing more then a mild nutrient solution. It contains P, K, and N. It would work better as a rinse than soaking for hydroton.

I would let my hydroton dry out. Then soak it in bleach water and agitate. The dried out hydroton will become fully saturated with the bleach water giving it a deep clean. Drill some holes in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket or bigger then rinse the hydroton in that bucket. Let the hydroton dry out again and soak in RO water then rinse again and your good to go.

If the hydroton is partially saturated the bleach water or RO won't be able to full soak into the hydroton due to it already containing moisture.

Bird of Hermes · Apr 1, 2018

RockinRobot said:
I reused hydroton the first couple years I grew.

At the end of each grow I let it dry out well to make root removal easier. Once I removed the old roots I filled reservoir with fresh RO and Clearex let the pump run for 24 hours.

Never had an issue. Cleaning it got old and now I buy new each run. It's really no more expensive than rockwool croutons.

Sounds like a good idea I might try to build a res that I can soak the stuff and drop one of my small submersible pumps in to circulate my florakleen(or clearex/drip clean that I might order).

I'd love to get new media every grow but since I have to order everything online that would cost around $250 :yoinks:

I plan on using around 128 liters of hydroton/perlite in a 50/50 or so ratio. Hydroton costs $50 per 25L to be shipped to my house. Even if I went straight perlite that would be $100 or so a run and my local home depot runs out of it all the time. I'll get the majority of the roots out after chop, then soak to clear out most the salt buildup and then let it dry out. Then I'll either bleach clean, pressure cook or do a combo of both.

And besides the cost of ordering new stuff every time I'd be looking at metric tons being delivered to my house every year lol and trying to get rid of 128L of media every 4mo would be a challenge in of itself. My local garbage company actually says online that we are not allowed to throw soil or anything like it in our garbage cans.

Bird of Hermes · Apr 1, 2018

Absolem said:
Florakleen is nothing more then a mild nutrient solution. It contains P, K, and N. It would work better as a rinse than soaking for hydroton.

I would let my hydroton dry out. Then soak it in bleach water and agitate. The dried out hydroton will become fully saturated with the bleach water giving it a deep clean. Drill some holes in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket or bigger then rinse the hydroton in that bucket. Let the hydroton dry out again and soak in RO water then rinse again and your good to go.

If the hydroton is partially saturated the bleach water or RO won't be able to full soak into the hydroton due to it already containing moisture.

I've looked online and can't find anybody who knows what florakleen is made from but most think it's a sucrose/dextrose mix like clearex. Already have a gallon of it can run a test by soaking one bucket with plain ro and another with ro/florakleen and see if there's any difference with my mw802 meter. Could give clearex and drip clean a try too but ro water is only a dollar per 5 gallons so if that's all I need that's cool. I used to have a home ro system but our local water looks like urine if you fill a pitcher up. Filters constantly clogged and caked up with yellow sludge and eventually got rid of the system.

I'll consider using bleach some more I don't have to decide anytime soon it'll be at least 4-5mo until I have any dirty media. Depending on how easy it is after I try and what happens to the media afterwards I may stick to the pressure cooker for sterilization since it won't leave behind residues. Though I admit I'm probably being anal about that and from what I hear a h2o2 rinse should oxidize any residues. Ty for the tips and I'll make sure to dry stuff thouroghly between rinses. :tiphat:

RockinRobot · Apr 1, 2018

Bird of Hermes said:
Sounds like a good idea I might try to build a res that I can soak the stuff and drop one of my small submersible pumps in to circulate my florakleen(or clearex/drip clean that I might order).

I'd love to get new media every grow but since I have to order everything online that would cost around $250 I plan on using around 128 liters of hydroton/perlite in a 50/50 or so ratio. Hydroton costs $50 per 25L to be shipped to my house. Even if I went straight perlite that would be $100 or so a run and my local home depot runs out of it all the time. I'll get the majority of the roots out after chop, then soak to clear out most the salt buildup and then let it dry out. Then I'll either bleach clean, pressure cook or do a combo of both.

And besides the cost of ordering new stuff every time I'd be looking at metric tons being delivered to my house every year lol and trying to get rid of 128L of media every 4mo would be a challenge in of itself. My local garbage company actually says online that we are not allowed to throw soil or anything like it in our garbage cans.

I just dump them in the flood tray and let the pump run constantly.

Also I have heard of people using an old washing machine to clean them. Dump them in and run on delicate cycle with Clearex (assuming floraclean is similar). This washes out the roots as well.

And as Absolem said if you want to sterilize you can first do a rinse in bleach water. Then use the floraclean or clearex.

Bird of Hermes · Apr 2, 2018

RockinRobot said:
I just dump them in the flood tray and let the pump run constantly.

Also I have heard of people using an old washing machine to clean them. Dump them in and run on delicate cycle with Clearex (assuming floraclean is similar). This washes out the roots as well.

And as Absolem said if you want to sterilize you can first do a rinse in bleach water. Then use the floraclean or clearex.

I'll probably stick to a mild bleach cleaning like y'all have been saying most the time and resort to the pressure cooker if stuff ever looks likes it's getting really slimy or dirty. Since I'm going to be running a mix of 50/50 hydroton and perlite whatever I do I gotta be gentle so I avoid breaking the perlite up too much. I thought about going with straight hydroton in my hempys but have heard it won't retain moisture for very long so using a 50/50 ratio.

People from what I've searched online are pretty confident that florakleen and clearex are both sugar water as it says on clearex's label. That's not to stay it's ineffective people talk about the sucrose/glucose/dextrose bonding to nutrients and making them soluble. Kinda makes sense since it does that in our bodies and interferes with nutrient absorption. Though I'm no doctor lol and the mechanisms may be totally different for all I know. Thnx for the input robot :tiphat:

Joint Lock · Apr 2, 2018

Enzymes

Bird of Hermes · Apr 2, 2018

Joint Lock said:
Enzymes

Yeah I already use cannazyme and have been looking into if there's anything better that could eat any tiny leftover roots during the cleaning process. If you or anybody knows of anything thats really effective I'm all ears. If there's a enzyme that I can soak the medium in to dissolve any remaining organic matter I'd be all over that.

Ununionized · Apr 3, 2018

it is true, that when clorox evaporates all that's left is standard table salt... bleach is Sodium hypo-Chlorite ... the chlorine evaporates leaving basically, table salt.

The amount of salt is pretty small - especially after a rinse.

In fact, one of the killing mechanisms of using bleach is that the truly tiny pores in perlite become temporarily filled with the chlorine as gas... thats something else specific to washing media in bleach.

WHIPEDMEAT · Apr 3, 2018

we re used hydroton(clay pebbles) this way, let it completely dry unfold it and use an air compressor to blow those dried material, than rinse it with bleach, than soak it with acid that is use to ph down and like the new one.

noreason · Apr 3, 2018

WHIPEDMEAT said:
we re used hydroton(clay pebbles) this way, let it completely dry unfold it and use an air compressor to blow those dried material, than rinse it with bleach, than soak it with acid that is use to ph down and like the new one.

May I ask you how much acid you use, what kind and concentration, for how long and where the bath?

Why using bleach if you go with acid? Does it help somehow?

Thanks

WHIPEDMEAT · Apr 3, 2018

phosphoric-acid, overnight usually, i don t remember exact dosage 85% the highest you can buy, and the ghe powder form ph down is also very good
bleach for disinfect, and the acid bath for adjust its Ph,without this Ph fluctaute a lot and wider spectrum disinfection if using both.. maybe too much, but better twice than none

Thoughts on using florakleen and a pressure cooker to reuse hydroton/perlite

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