First grow in 10 years.

Oh yeah, this has been affecting primarily newer growth shoots, but not all new growth(if that makes sense). The main cola is still nice and lush, but when I tied her down most of the side branches that came out started showing the signs. Not all of them, but 80 percent of them.

Elements001 said:

.
Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

Yeah: Your problem's somewhere else. I doubt it's a mag def. In all likelihood there'll be something else causing that. If it was mag def it wouldn't show in your top leaves first.

What are you night temps like?
What have they been fed recently?

Whats yer ph on yer runoff bro? In coco you gotta have that ph right bro. I bet its too high right now man.

been feeding with each feed, but the last two times I didnt water to run off. Before that I was watering at about 6.5 and the run off was about 6.0. This time I gave her 6.0 ph Water, and by the second gallon started to run off the pH was looking more like 5.5, so hopefully that'll help.
You know what,I think Im done with this guessing game of Ph test shaker thing. It works ok, but I need a definite number to work with. I'm just gonna srping for the nice meter they have at my hydro shop, (blue lab I think is the manufacturer).
I'm know my pH has been from anywhere to watering at 6.5 with run off 6.5, to watering at closer to 5.8 and having run off closer to 5.5 or below.
Being stoned, and not having the best of eyes makes the shakers not quite accurate enough. Good reference, but that's about all.
If they have a cheap ppm meter I'll grab one too, but I think I've been doing ok on the ppm's so far.
Just tired of this guess game of color when it comes to the shaker.

I'll post some pictures tonight when I get home, hopefully this slightly more acidic sloution I gave her to a healthy 25% run off will help out quite a bit.

Night time temps have been flucuationg, but not to extreme. the lowest is has ever gotten in 62 I believe. Living in CO and the high for the past few days has been 7 degrees and having a bit of trouble keeping the temperature consistent.

Could temperature flucuations of about 8 -10 degrees during the light on cycle cause these issues?
I'll get home and tnet will be at 83 degrees, so I open my outside window to let some cold(very cold -4) air in to cool things off. I'll get the tent to about 75 and close the window over to let things even out. I usually do this two times before going to bed, and when I wake up and the lights turn off it at around usually 78-80)

Ok, sorry about the somewhat spaoradic reply in my last post. Was at work trying to type it out.

So the temperature is usually at about 78 -80 while the light is on with small fluctuations between 74-82 mainly just after the bulb turns on and as Im getting good air flow through the the tent. Night time temp is usualy about 64-66, has never dropped below 62 (pretty sure that's pretty chilly for them, maybe a bit to mich so.

That and I've been noticing that when the lights are off and my main ventilation fan goes off, I just have a small desk fan that barely moves air thorugh the tent. If I had to guess Id say maybe 20cfm. That being said I've been noticing my RH maxing out at 51% over night during the dark period. I have absolutely nothing running at night except the tiny fan keeping air circulating through the tent. Think thats a bit high for night time and worried about mold so gonna move some things arounf and get better air flow through the dark period.

-papaduc
The nutrients I have been using are all general Hydroponics in Distilled water:
1st) CALiMAGic (1-0-0) 5 mL per gal (just started about 5 days ago)
2nd) FloraNova Bloom (4-8-7) 5mL per gal
3rd)KoolBloom (0-10-10) 2 mL per gal
4th)Floralicious+ (2-0.8-0.02) 1mL per gal

Comes out at a pH of 4.0 or less, so I add roughly 1.5 -2.0 mL of pH up to get to about 6.5 pH. (This has actually been a mistake hte past few times. Learned you want to be in about 5.8 to 6.1 in coco, so I have been trying to get it right on 6.0, but I always over shoot it. Bought more tester fluid today so I can test more and add just like 2 drops after the intial 1 mL and so on and so forth....)

Last night I gave her the same mix, but dropped the calmag because I didnt feel it was helping really. Must've mis judged the shaker color being high and gave her about 5.0-5.5 ph instead of 6.0. Gave her 2 gallons total and the run off was probably closer to 5.0 -5.5 maximum. Think I just kinda threw her in the opposite direction. She's still looking wuite nice, her main cola looks like nothing is wrong with it, as well as about 6 others, but the majority of the rest (6-7 big ones) are being affected much more tha others.



I'm kind of confused why half of the plant seems fine and the other half seems kinda stressed when everything its at the same heig essentially. I'm sure my pH has been going from 6.5 to 5.5 and my plant is not happy with me for it. Will be buying a pen tomorrow or the next day as a double check with my shaker test.

Talked to the hydro store guy and her gave me a couple samples of this SUPREKELP stuff to help. think he said it was something to help with the nutrient uptake in my roots. Not sure if its gonna help this problem, but I dont think it's really gonna hurt.



0-0-1
Soluable Potash (k20).........1.00%
Derived from Seaweed extract
(Ascophyllim nodosum, Sargassum spp, Laminaria spp)

Hopefully I'll get this all sorted out in the next few days before it becomes any more of a problem. It doesnt really seem like its spreading, just kind of localized right now. Wasn't thinking it would really be Mg, theres Mg in damn near everything I use as feed so gotta be pH.
Ph pen time..



On a really positive note though, my 4th out of 5 clones took root this evening. Really happy with these cloning results. Thought for sure I'd kill all of em. The first one has roots coming out all over and I can start to see new growth now. So exciting for me, never had a successful clone before, not to mention 4!

I also noticed this almost over the entire plant, almost looks like saw blade teeth. Not sure what it was or how to describe to look it up. Really hope I get this fixed here soon. This plant's got so much potential.

ahhhhhhh, so ok. Light has been about 12 inches away. the stretch slowed down and I kinda stopped raising the light as often as I was. figured out what I was searching for and it appears to be heat stress. So I think I have a minor pH problem accompanied by the light being a little too close, and possibly low RH during the light on cycle (RH usually satsy around 42%)
Raised light up about 5-6 inchees
Turning up Humidifier
Trying to figure out a way to reduce the amount of air flow I'm getting through the tent. Think my 220 cfm fan is too much and taking all the humidity out and stressing her a bit. Don't want to replace it, just somehow reduce the volume of air without burning out the motor or buying a variable speed controller.
Thinking out loud here, trying to keep everything documented. Sorry for over posting or beind redundant, just want to do a good job on this.
Thanks for the input so far all, has been priceless to me

Thats gotta be it man, thank you. I guess I gotta try and keep the temperature more constant and keep the humidity at the desired range for there. Tents probably gonna stay around 78 - 80, so the optimal RH is like 70%, but that's kinda high for flower. Think I'm gonna go for 55% maybe?

i dunno wtf all that shit in that other thread was about, but i've been telling you over and over. MAGNESIUM!!!! you need more. you need a lot during early to mid flower. that's why your whole plant is turning lime green/yellow.

Elements, your daytime temps are fine. Cannabis will not suffer in 83f/28c heat.

If your night temperatures are going below 18c however, your plant will suffer as a result. It's metabolism will slow down, nutrients will be locked out while the rootzone is at those temps and, if those conditions stay the same throughout the course of the grow, your yield will suffer as a result.

Like I said to you in the other thread; with a balanced feed, given at the right amount, you will hardly ever see a true magnesium deficiency. If you do, you can use epsoms to correct it.

If your root zone is reaching 16c in the night, nutrients will be locked out, stems can purple, growth will be stunted and flower development badly affected.

If you're replacing a large part of your base feed with other things. the plant's health can suffer and it is much much harder to dial in your feeding regime. It also makes diagnosing a problem - a difficult job at the best of times - so much harder, because you're adding in many more variables.

If your light is slightly close to the tops of your plants, they will yellow up. If your plant is already affected by other things mentioned above, it'll exacerbate the problem.

My advice is simple. Get an ec pen, feed your floranova bloom at 1.0ec. Add in your pk booster at 0.2 on top. And drop everything else.

Forget your daytime temps and focus solely on the night hours. 83f in the day will never, ever, have the same impact on your bud development as 60 in the night.

Get your temperatures up to 68f/20c in the nighttime as your main priority, grab an ec pen, then go from there.

One more thing: How come you're using distilled water? Is your tap water no good?

I love my hard city tap water.

Tap water here is really bad in my opinion. I used to live in Denver, and they have "bad" tap water, but I could chug that stuff all day. The tap water up here actually smells (expecially when you make ice cubes), and gives me a horrible headache everytime I drink it. Was thinking about inquiring through public service (or however you do it) what my tap water contains.

I figured Distilled water was best because it has nothing in it, and you have complete control over exactly whats going into your mixture.

I think this problem actually really started when I thought I was improving the tent.
I bought a 200cfm 6" duct fan to keep air circulating through the room, and I think it actually started to move too much and really cause some temperature fluxations.
I'm thinking about putting it on its own timer and only having it vent every so often because I dont think I need to exchange all the air in the tent 2.5+ times a minute. That or taking it out entirely and getting a smaller 80 cfm 4" fan. God my ignorance and over compensation led me to getting one that was flat out unessecary.
My goal now is to monitor night time temp and make sure they stay up higher. It makes a lot of sense what papaduc is saying about the night time low and the roots getting locked out. Wasnt having these issues a month ago when night time temps only got to 66-68.
My roots are cold and not uptaking enough nutrients, then the lights would come on (a bit to close to the plant then) and stress it to try and drink up more water when the roots were slowly coming back "online."

The only realy additive I was adding was the cal/mag, which I'm gonna drop. The FNbloom, koolbloom, and floralicous are all recomended by GH and its in their simple drain to waste feed schedule, only reason I'm using them. I can see how it may be better to just use the FN Bloom and Koolbloom. Not sure how FL+ would hurt, but you're right in trying to eliminate all excessive external variables.
According to the info on FN Bloom and KB, 5mL of FN Bloom in distilled water should be at 500 ppm, (1.0 EC) and 2mL of KoolBloom should be 70 ppm (.14EC). I'm not sure what the FL+ is rated at, but I only use 1 mL, and I'm guessing in total 1.14 + FL+ is probably no more than 1.3 EC, but probably closer to the 1.2 you're recomending.

I ordered a somewhat cheap(ok, cheap) ppm meter online last night, should have it within the next week.



(HM Digital TDS-4 Pocket Size TDS Tester Meter Without Digital Thermometer, 0-9990 ppm Measurement Range , 1 ppm Resolution, +/- 2% Readout Accuracy) has ATC (automatic temperature compensation) as well.

I bought some epsom salts today just in case, but I know I dont need the Ca now, and likely I dont need Mg either. Chilly roots and a bit of VPD from my stupid vent situation making my plants unhappy.




If I do give them a shot I hear it's about 1/4 tsp per gallon, right? And this is the right kind of Epsom salt to use as well? I didnt see anything else and noticed it was meant to be used a as mild laxative.

I was also told its a good idea to dissolve it in boiling wtater to make it food grade, but not sure if that's really necessary. If so I figured I'd just take a cup of distilled water out of the gallon, microwave it and put the salt in, then mix it back into the gallon and let it sit for 15 -20 minutes and let the temperature go back down.





I went to my hydro shop and bought my a nice little gift to help with my damn eyes which suck at differentiating yellow, from light yellow, to medium dark yellow. Got it for 30% off though. I work at a dispensary and the hydro shop guy always hooks me up. Really cool guy. Supposed to be a good pen, he said he'd had his for 5 years now and it's still working. has a 1 year warranty to, so think I should be good to go for awhile now.
No more "I was too stoned and mixed up the pH up shaker color chart. I swear to god a 5.5 looks very similar to a 6.5. To hard for my eyes, especially after working 12 hours and being stoned to compensate for said hours.

Good things to come

oh, that was a long stop (btw.10y)
good luck!

Elements001 said:

Tap water here is really bad in my opinion. I used to live in Denver, and they have "bad" tap water, but I could chug that stuff all day. The tap water up here actually smells (expecially when you make ice cubes), and gives me a horrible headache everytime I drink it. Was thinking about inquiring through public service (or however you do it) what my tap water contains.

Click to expand...

The smell could be chlorine. That usually evaporates very quickly if left to stand.

Check the ph and tell us what it reads.
When you get your ppm meter that'll tell you if your water's good to use, maybe if not to drink.

Elements001 said:

I figured Distilled water was best because it has nothing in it, and you have complete control over exactly whats going into your mixture.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's not that it's bad. Maybe just unnecessary. If you use distilled though, put your calmag in first and bring it to 0.2 with that. Then go to between 1.0 - 1.2 with your floranova.

Elements001 said:

I think this problem actually really started when I thought I was improving the tent.
I bought a 200cfm 6" duct fan to keep air circulating through the room, and I think it actually started to move too much and really cause some temperature fluxations.

Click to expand...

No problem. Just get a fan speed controller.

Elements001 said:

I'm thinking about putting it on its own timer and only having it vent every so often because I dont think I need to exchange all the air in the tent 2.5+ times a minute. That or taking it out entirely and getting a smaller 80 cfm 4" fan. God my ignorance and over compensation led me to getting one that was flat out unessecary.

Click to expand...

No need for either of those measures brother.

A timer's a bad idea.
When the fan's off, you lose negative pressure and smells escape. Better running a room with temp fluctuations than one with smells escaping.

Don't worry too much. Better over than under. You've got room to upgrade with a bigger fan anyway. If you can't grab a fan controller, try and grab a cheap thermostatically controlled heater for the nighttime. Simple.

Elements001 said:

My roots are cold and not uptaking enough nutrients, then the lights would come on (a bit to close to the plant then) and stress it to try and drink up more water when the roots were slowly coming back "online."

Click to expand...

That's exactly what's happening. You've got the idea with regards to the plant slowly waking up. When the lights come on, it still takes a couple of hours for the temps within the root ball to rise back up. In a 24 hour period, they're maybe spending less than 10 hours in the right temp range. Not good, obviously.

Elements001 said:

The only realy additive I was adding was the cal/mag, which I'm gonna drop. The FNbloom, koolbloom, and floralicous are all recomended by GH and its in their simple drain to waste feed schedule, only reason I'm using them. I can see how it may be better to just use the FN Bloom and Koolbloom. Not sure how FL+ would hurt, but you're right in trying to eliminate all excessive external variables.

Click to expand...

If you decide stick with the distilled, then when you get your ec meter, put the calmag in to bring it up. Then put your base nutes in. If you find your tap is ok, you can drop the cal mag.

In flowering, the FNbloom and the PK booster are your base feeds. The FL won't hurt, but like I said it's just a case of trying to make sure the whole of the ec is made up with base feed. It just helps to have that baseline to work from.

Elements001 said:

According to the info on FN Bloom and KB, 5mL of FN Bloom in distilled water should be at 500 ppm, (1.0 EC) and 2mL of KoolBloom should be 70 ppm (.14EC). I'm not sure what the FL+ is rated at, but I only use 1 mL, and I'm guessing in total 1.14 + FL+ is probably no more than 1.3 EC, but probably closer to the 1.2 you're recomending.

Click to expand...

FN is a strong mix then. If 1.2ml/L brings the ec up by 1.0, that's about all you'll ever need to use. It's a good guide to be honest, because a lot of nute labels recommend well over what you should be using. 1.0ec of base and 0.2 of pk is exactly what I use, give or take a dot. Follow that when you get your pen and you won't go far wrong.

Elements001 said:

I ordered a somewhat cheap(ok, cheap) ppm meter online last night, should have it within the next week.

Click to expand...

Sweet. If you bought it from a site where you can see customer reviews, even sweeter. Some good cheap shit to be picked up from there.

Elements001 said:

I bought some epsom salts today just in case, but I know I dont need the Ca now, and likely I dont need Mg either. Chilly roots and a bit of VPD from my stupid vent situation making my plants unhappy.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't buy into the VPD idea if I were you. It's extremely unlikely it's causing any of your problems.

Elements001 said:

If I do give them a shot I hear it's about 1/4 tsp per gallon, right? And this is the right kind of Epsom salt to use as well? I didnt see anything else and noticed it was meant to be used a as mild laxative.

I was also told its a good idea to dissolve it in boiling wtater to make it food grade, but not sure if that's really necessary. If so I figured I'd just take a cup of distilled water out of the gallon, microwave it and put the salt in, then mix it back into the gallon and let it sit for 15 -20 minutes and let the temperature go back down.

Click to expand...

That's the right stuff.

Be aware that if you're having a problem with temps or Ph, and, for example, you get a problem which exhibits a lockout, putting more nutrients in, can cause a buildup. Just remember that.

To use it just dissolve it in hot water in a cup, then mix it into your nutrient solution or dilute it to make a foliar spray.

Elements001 said:

I went to my hydro shop and bought my a nice little gift to help with my damn eyes which suck at differentiating yellow, from light yellow, to medium dark yellow. Got it for 30% off though. I work at a dispensary and the hydro shop guy always hooks me up. Really cool guy. Supposed to be a good pen, he said he'd had his for 5 years now and it's still working. has a 1 year warranty to, so think I should be good to go for awhile now.
No more "I was too stoned and mixed up the pH up shaker color chart. I swear to god a 5.5 looks very similar to a 6.5. To hard for my eyes, especially after working 12 hours and being stoned to compensate for said hours.
Good things to come

Click to expand...

Tooled up and ready to go. I'll stay tuned.

Right on man, thanks for the quick reply. I just made a batch of veg feed for my clones and some seedlings, and holy shit it was nice to know my pH was at 6.0. Not 5.5, or 5.0, or 6.5 or red fish blue fish crap anymore. 6.0 on the dot after testing in calibration fluid to make sure all was good. 6.0 on the dot!! Watered the vegging girls and run off was 6.1, so all should be great there.
testing my tap water right now, one second.....
haha, didnt even need those dots, this thing rocks. only took 12 seconds (mostly me getting up and moving over to the sink)
My tap is coming out at a pH of 8.1.

So papaduc, would you suggest I always use the cal/mag when using the distilled water so theres some ions in there before I add my nutrients, or should I just stick with the FN and KB?
That's the main reason I've been using cal/mag alot, i thought if you were using distilled water you were supposed to always use it, but I'm not sure on that. I've never used my tap because I figured I had no clue what was in it and thought it'd only cause problems. Every single time I have watered/fed has been with distilled.
I have never given her distilled water alone, there has always been at least 5mL of cal mag in it if I wasnt making a feed mix.

Bought the ppm meter off amazon and read so many reviews on many different cheaper ones, and this one for only $5 more has the automatic temperature calcualtion thing which I figured would be a big plus. Only negative thing people had to say was it wasnt water proof above the test line, but I always test in tiny cups with minimal waste. I dont see that being an issue for me.
This pH meter on the other hand, I could throw it in the toilet and check the pH of my piss if I wanted and it'd come out with flying colors. Think I'll definently look into a ppm meter by Oakton, really liking the pH2 one so far.

Think I'm gonna hold off for about 3-4 more days before trying the Mg. Gonna keep the thermostat in the house up a bit more during the day and make sure those roots stay right where they need to be.
Oh yeah, what exactly is the optimal night time temperature? Think I'm gonna shoot for about 68, thats where I was at before when flower started and all was going so smoothly.
Also going to buy another thermometer and place it halfway up to pot to find out exactly where my root temp is sitting.

[mastermind] said:

oh, that was a long stop (btw.10y)
good luck!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I kinda drifted away from it. Then I ended up getting my medical card and started buying from dispensaries. That was fun and all, but I've grown tired of the same old generic pot from the shops.

Don't get me wrong, it's not bad, but it's missing that homegrown love and care that I miss from when I used to grow. That and I was getting bored and wanted to see if I could still do it. I forgot just how much fun it all is.

Even in the midst of these problems, I'm still having a blast. This is the shit I like thinking about, the problems in life I enjoy dealing with. Gives me a positive outlet for all the crazyness going on in my head. Feels like I'm being more productive and not just going to work for a paycheck.

I dont know, pretty stoned right now. I'm glad I got back into it. Don't think I would have though without a place like this. Being able to chronicle it all makes it even that much more exciting to me.

Thanks for the good luck, I will be needing it for these first few runs!

Alright man, I think I'm making some progress!



There was a very slight claw starting the past few days, but that's almost entirely gone tonight as the lights came on. Night time low was 67, so that's another plus.
Put another thermometer in by my pot to get an idea of how cold the roots are getting.
Oh yeah, I had some left over feed that I gave her last night and tested pH, it wsnt too bad at 6.2, but higher than I'd like.
Gonna whip up a fresh gallon of some cal/mag into distilled, FN and then some KB and a touch of FL+ and get it to a nice 6.0. Maybe I'll shoot for 5.9 since my run off of the veg went up about 0.1 from what I fed them.

I really, (shit fingers crossed, knock on wood) think I will be able to get this mess under control now! Once I get that ppm meter I'm gonna be golden I tell ya, GOLDEN!